Jim in Anchorage Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Factually incorrect. Intellectually dishonest. Logically ridiculous. Your belief system is under attack here, so it's understandable, if just a little bit sad. Even if you're given a pass on all of that and we assume that everything in your statement is accurate, it proves nothing. You're still left with just a crackpot theory that lots and lots of people buy into it. A younger, more rational generation is leaving organized religion in droves, partly because of the hypocrisy of these institutions, but mostly because science continues to explain away everything we needed religion for in the first place. Good riddance! It never fails to amaze me that the younger generation is always more rational, smarter, and have a better grasp of life then there parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 It never fails to amaze me that the younger generation is always more rational, smarter, and have a better grasp of life then there parents. I know you're being sarcastic, but in this case the numbers bear out. Note that "smarter" and "better grasp of life" are your words, not mine. It's not the older, more indoctrinated folks that are leaving the churches. Religious thinking, by definition, is magical thinking and is therefore less rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 If this message board is any example, it is obvious that man is the pinnacle of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Patton Oswalt has a hilarious take on religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I know you're being sarcastic, but in this case the numbers bear out. Note that "smarter" and "better grasp of life" are your words, not mine. It's not the older, more indoctrinated folks that are leaving the churches. Religious thinking, by definition, is magical thinking and is therefore less rational. So you have all the answers. Didn't Einstein dismiss quantum theory by saying "God doesn't throw dice"? I know that is the opposite angle of where you are coming from, but the point is the smartest among us just do not know. So is a belief in in a higher power just"indoctrinated" or something you envy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 The "My worldview is more valid than your worldview" argument is always a fun one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 The "My worldview is more valid than your worldview" argument is always a fun one. The problem with the younger generation is that they think the older generation hasn't worked through their premises and arguments about religion or spiritual beliefs... P.S. "There are no atheists in a foxhole." Forget where the quote came from or even if I got it exactly right. However the deal for the next generation to come to grips with is science cannot or may never explain the essence of the sole and while organized religion may be suffering currently, spirituality and belief in higher power of some sort, IMO, isn't. Either this is a gap in knowledge as some would describe and or as others would argue science is just a discovery of what is and was created, ergo no conflict between the two. Either way it is important for the younger generation to discover this on their own, so I say have at it and in the process give us a greater understanding of the manifestations of our creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 So you have all the answers. Didn't Einstein dismiss quantum theory by saying "God doesn't throw dice"? I know that is the opposite angle of where you are coming from, but the point is the smartest among us just do not know.So is a belief in in a higher power just"indoctrinated" or something you envy? By most accounts, Einstein's insistence that god exists held back his science in his later years. That's simply the opinion of many historians and many of his peers and in no way diminishes any of his wonderful, ground-breaking accomplishments. At wost, it sent him down a dead-end path in his later years. Maybe another discovery or two if not for his hang-ups. Maybe not. However, while "smartest among us" did not know, his belief was in a god who started things in motion long, long ago. He did not believe in a personal god. He believed in a god who does not break the laws of Physics, who did not interfere in the Universe in any way and who does not answer prayers or even have anything at all to do with the day-to-day of you or I. He actively shielded his belief by stating that he did not think that any evidence of such a being would or could ever be found and that no test could either prove or disprove god's existence. It doesn't really matter what he believed. I just bring it up because a lot of people like to quote Einstein out of context to make him out to be some kind of proponent of organized religion, which he was not. Einstein, like everyone else could believe anything he wanted to of course. But I think you illustrate my point. Einstein was most likely unable to let go of hang-ups because they were so ingrained in his being. He was human after all. At some point in their lives, most thinking humans go through some sort of a crisis of faith in what they were brought up believing. As science advances there are fewer gaps in which god fits nicely. The fewer gaps you start with, the lesser god becomes and the more likely your crisis of faith will push you over the edge into disbelief. It seems to me that we may be approaching a tipping point here. More and more people are leaving the churches every year. In the end, one cannot prove or disprove the existence of anything supernatural, including god. Science has no language to deal with such things because such things can't be tested using the scientific method. So...any plea to the rationality of religion is illegitimate because religion is not a rational thing. So Jesus Christ coming again to judge the living and the dead, or Poseidon shoving his trident up your ass or even the Flying Spaghetti Monster showering the planet with meatballs all have just about the chance of happening. And all three are far, far, far, far, far less likely than 'none of the above'. So believe whatever the hell you want because it just doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 So you have all the answers. Didn't Einstein dismiss quantum theory by saying "God doesn't throw dice"? I know that is the opposite angle of where you are coming from, but the point is the smartest among us just do not know.So is a belief in in a higher power just"indoctrinated" or something you envy? If you're going to invoke the spooky action of quantum theory, you should stay away from the "god doesn't throw dice quote", because according to quantum theory if there is a god he most certainly does throw dice. "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Well let's see... the most vicious and evil people of the last century killed more than all other centuries combined and they were godless seculars who ascribed to evolutionary beliefs in the perfect society. Yeah, it was those crazy religious people. Secondly, the other false premise is that you lump all religions together as if you can lump all secularists together (see I did that above using your faulty premise and it sucks doesn't it?). So should I lump all secularists as Hitlers and Stalins with a little Pol Pot on the side? You my friend are a dumbass. Give me a Catholic like Mother Teresa over all you guys and the world would be a better place. Rather have one true Christian who really practices the faith than a bunch of morons all about themselves and can only think of how to bash others rather than understand what is best or good. Hell give me a guy like Aristotle over you idiots. u fail to mention that secular ideas are not what motivated their violence, dogma did. unjustified belief in the case of hitler about aliens and about the german race. stalin and pol pot were motivated by another dogma communism.... dogma is the problem here, unjustified belief is the problem, the answer to these dogmas is not another one in religion... good try but your argument makes no sense.. also atheism is a word without content, it has no direction, its like being a non-astrologer... so for u to say secularism motivates bad ideas first off makes no sense and has no bearing here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 People who are hostile to any possible existence of God are unbalanced extremists soaring on an ego trip. You can't prove or disprove supernatural with science or reason, because by definition the supernatural would be beyond the realm of science and reason. I consider jihadists and militant atheists identical twins; mirror reflections of one other from opposite ends of the religious spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 People who are hostile to any possible existence of God are unbalanced extremists soaring on an ego trip. You can't prove or disprove supernatural with science or reason, because by definition the supernatural would be beyond the realm of science and reason. I consider jihadists and militant atheists identical twins; mirror reflections of one other from opposite ends of the religious spectrum. Is there an echo in here? If you can't prove or disprove supernatural with science or reason then why believe one supernatural claim over another or one religion over another? Your conclusion is to pick some arbitrary fantastical story and just go with that? It's completely irrational. The simplest explanation is the best explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 also there are no atheists in foxholes has no bearing on whether there is a god.... why? lets say there is a god, someone saying there is one doesnt contribute to proving there is a god. also, saying there are no atheists in foxholes is a cultural idea with no content... like "holy ****" or "god damn it" ..... its just a saying also when one fears the unknown when they die, the only means one thing.............. U DONT KNOW.... DUH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 People who are hostile to any possible existence of God are unbalanced extremists soaring on an ego trip. You can't prove or disprove supernatural with science or reason, because by definition the supernatural would be beyond the realm of science and reason. I consider jihadists and militant atheists identical twins; mirror reflections of one other from opposite ends of the religious spectrum. So lets say there is a flying donut in space and he is my god, is this a justified belief is it true? u do care that ur religion is true right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Is there an echo in here? If you can't prove or disprove supernatural with science or reason then why believe one supernatural claim over another or one religion over another? Your conclusion is to pick some arbitrary fantastical story and just go with that? It's completely irrational. The simplest explanation is the best explanation. Are you really this stupid? Marshawn, Leodis, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Are you really this stupid? Marshawn, Leodis, is that you? Good point, you got me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 So lets say there is a flying donut in space and he is my god, is this a justified belief is it true? u do care that ur religion is true right? I am not saying I am religious. I am merely staking the claim that anyone who believes that the supernatural is quantifiable by science is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 People who are hostile to any possible existence of God are unbalanced extremists soaring on an ego trip. You can't prove or disprove supernatural with science or reason, because by definition the supernatural would be beyond the realm of science and reason. I consider jihadists and militant atheists identical twins; mirror reflections of one other from opposite ends of the religious spectrum. in order for something to be true, it needs to be proven in reality.... if u want to believe a fantasy like the spaghetti monster in space is a god thats fine, but remeber we cant prove that god isnt the spaghetti monster so therefore its a fantasy that cant be proven or disproven.... bottom line in order to be accepted the onus is on u to prove the existence of god, not the other way around.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 by not being able to disprove the donut god , this holds no water whatsoever in establishing it as a truth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 by not being able to disprove the donut god , this holds no water whatsoever in establishing it as a truth.... Again, a really stupid comment. Science by definition is the opposite of the supernatural, and therefore cannot prove or disprove its existence. Come on...it really isn't that hard to understand once you take your blinders off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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