Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 It's based upon that sentiment where my "faith" is derived from. It is impossible in my view to prove that God exists, hence the term "faith", after all belief that is not based on proof is actually called faith. My whole point was, I didn't truly believe in it because I was told to, it was because it was a moment of realization that had occured in my life that enabled me to have "faith". Ok, that's fine. I'm certainly not trying to tell you what to believe. It's not a very satisfying end to the discussion, but religious views never are because at some point you have to stop asking "why" and just go with "god did it". If science, government and religion are kept separate I have no beef.
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Religion is man's attempt to become closer to God instead of allowing God to become personally involved in his life. See, God is a God of both mercy and wrath. The God who is at the same time powerful enough to create all things is certainly powerful enough to know about and care about his creation, including man. It's not all that irrational. Faith is a powerful thing, religion is a perversion of faith. It's theoretically possible to create a new universe. I'll refer you to this NPR article and podcast - it's really interesting: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6545246 For argument's sake, let's assume that this is possible. If you spawned a new universe in this manner and it grew and eventually developed life, would you suddenly know everything about it (like god)? Would you suddenly have the power to control what happens there? Would you suddenly be immortal and capable of controlling such a creation? I think not.
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Ok, that's fine. I'm certainly not trying to tell you what to believe. It's not a very satisfying end to the discussion, but religious views never are because at some point you have to stop asking "why" and just go with "god did it". If science, government and religion are kept separate I have no beef. Stop asking why, maybe, asking how... no never, that is why I don't believe Science and Faith are mutually exclusive. Why begs the question of causality which even science really can't answer, it just comes up with a statistical probability. That being said, understanding the how is key, the why may or may not come and for me is more an act of faith. The how I will always continue to explore.
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Stop asking why, maybe, asking how... no never, that is why I don't believe Science and Faith are mutually exclusive. Why begs the question of causality which even science really can't answer, it just comes up with a statistical probability. That being said, understanding the how is key, the why may or may not come and for me is more an act of faith. The how I will always continue to explore. I mean why as in: "Why does something work the way it appears to?"
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I mean why as in: "Why does something work the way it appears to?" I understand but I think you more correctly should use the modifier "How" does it work the way it does... " why" is a question of motivation and something that begs the question for a higher power or the answer because it can in a scientific manner.... How asks the question how does something work or function. Just saying
DC Tom Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 It's theoretically possible to create a new universe. I'll refer you to this NPR article and podcast - it's really interesting: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6545246 For argument's sake, let's assume that this is possible. If you spawned a new universe in this manner and it grew and eventually developed life, would you suddenly know everything about it (like god)? Would you suddenly have the power to control what happens there? Would you suddenly be immortal and capable of controlling such a creation? I think not. Well, not Joe, at least. Manage an entire universe? He probably gets lost in his own garage.
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Well, not Joe, at least. Manage an entire universe? He probably gets lost in his own garage. I could for a minute and then my attention would turn elsewhere. P.S. How do you know you are talking to someone with ADD?
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I understand but I think you more correctly should use the modifier "How" does it work the way it does... " why" is a question of motivation and something that begs the question for a higher power or the answer because it can in a scientific manner.... How asks the question how does something work or function. Just saying You're right. Why implies intent.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 It's theoretically possible to create a new universe. I'll refer you to this NPR article and podcast - it's really interesting: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6545246 For argument's sake, let's assume that this is possible. If you spawned a new universe in this manner and it grew and eventually developed life, would you suddenly know everything about it (like god)? Would you suddenly have the power to control what happens there? Would you suddenly be immortal and capable of controlling such a creation? I think not. This sounds strangely like the "turtles all the way down" argument.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Don't know why I was thinking about these lyrics reading through... But I was... Good ones they are: There are those who think that life Has nothing left to chance With a host of holy horrors To direct our aimless dance A planet of playthings We dance on the strings Of powers we cannot perceive "The stars aren't aligned --- Or the gods are malign" Blame is better to give than receive You can choose a ready guide In some celestial voice If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice You can choose from phantom fears And kindness that can kill I will choose a path that's clear I will choose free will There are those who think that They've been dealt a losing hand The cards were stacked against them --- They weren't born in Lotus-Land All preordained A prisoner in chains A victim of venomous fate Kicked in the face You can't pray for a place In heaven's unearthly estate Each of us A cell of awareness Imperfect and incomplete Genetic blends With uncertain ends On a fortune hunt That's far too fleet...
bbb Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Paraphrasing U2 - it's something you have to believe it to see it.........Once you experience a personal miracle because of it, it's pretty hard to go back to being the agnostic/atheist that I was.
finknottle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 You might as well ask "gambling - is the state lotto becoming an insane idea in the 21st century?" A stupid waste of time and money? Obviously. Will our heads win out any time soon? Nope. There will always be plenty of people throwing their weekly fiver into the basket at the prospect of easy paradise.
Gary M Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 But isnt it extreme to think that the creator of the universe has written a book, ie the bible.. or what about people rising from the dead... this on its face is extreme and rediculous... 44% of americans believe a dead person is coming back... this isnt a marginal group here.... Atheism The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Make perfect sense.
DC Tom Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Atheism The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Make perfect sense. Sure it does...if you can accept that not everything happens for a reason.
Endzone Animal Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Atheism The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Make perfect sense. Nicely done.
Gene Frenkle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Atheism The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Make perfect sense. The man in the sky makes much more sense. "I can't imagine how the Universe could have come to be without god" is called an Argument from Personal Incredulity, a commonly invoked logical fallacy. Who the hell are you and why should your ability or willingness to conceive of a notion preclude it from being real, especially when there is a great deal of evidence to support it? It's also funny that you reference magic in your post. Nothing about the Big Bang or what came after requires magic or magical thinking to get to where we are today. Religion, on the other hand, relies completely on magic and magical thinking.
DELLAPELLE JOHN Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Atheism The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Make perfect sense. sorry but atheism is without content, so u need to try again.... atheism is a lack of belief....the onus is on u to prove that ur god among thousands i might add exists. not the other way around. saying idk is also not hard to admit...lol
DC Tom Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 sorry but atheism is without content, so u need to try again.... atheism is a lack of belief....the onus is on u to prove that ur god among thousands i might add exists. not the other way around. saying idk is also not hard to admit...lol No, it's not. Atheism is belief in the non-existence of God ("α" - without, and "θεοϛ" - God)...as has already been discussed in this thread. And you're once again, in your apparently infinite stupidity, confusing the concepts of "disprovable" and "unprovable".
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