Chuckknox Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Keith Ellison seemed like he made 100 tackles on these Brady short passes. How can they better protect the middle against this type of attack? Is it our players or scheme?
The Big Cat Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Bump receivers, get to the quarterback, stack the box. Problem was, we were facing Randy Moss, and all the tactics mentioned above can backfire BIG TIME when you're up against that guy. So, we made them go short. I resist saying they "killed" us with it. It was, however, effective, at times.
Guest dog14787 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Keith Ellison seemed like he made 100 tackles on these Brady short passes. How can they better protect the middle against this type of attack? Is it our players or scheme? We forced them to go short and intermediate by design in my opinion because you can't let the Brady/Moss/ long ball combination beat you.
Fewell733 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 if you focus on taking away the little stuff they'll beat you deep and ring up 50 points on you.
John from Riverside Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 They killed us? I thought we were up by 11 with a few minutes left to go and we lost by 1 point?
billsfan89 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Honestly there aren't too many wide receivers like Wes Welker who work the middle of the field so effectively. Also there aren't many tall deep threats like Randy Moss. What really killed us over the middle was when we couldn't get pressure on Brady with the front 4 he let it develop and the wideouts present a match up issue. With Tampa they don't have a Wes Welker like wide receiver or a QB as good as even a rusty Tom Brady. We shouldn't have as big of an issue with the Bucs as we did with the Pats*. That being said if we don't beat Tampa this could be a long season. If the Aarons and the DT's can put some pressure on the Tampa QB than the D shouldn't be letting up as many short middle passes. Also we can blitz Tampa more because their QB won't make us pay like a good QB like Brady could.
K-No Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 How can they better protect the middle against this type of attack? Is it our players or scheme? Why protect the short middle passes? We will gladly give up 8-10 yards in exchange for the clock ticking away 20-25 seconds when we're up 2 touchdowns....we should be focused on protecting against the sideline passes and of course the deep throw.
Sen. John Blutarsky Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Tackle better. How many times did Kevin Faulk or Wes Welker catch the ball short of a first down and make someone miss to gain a first down? The key to playing the way we were playing is solid tacking. If they throw a 3 yard pass and the first man puts the receiver down you'll let them run that all day long.
bananathumb Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Get a better free safety to run to the ball?
TheChimp Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Better players and a better system. That oughtta do it.
Alphadawg7 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Keith Ellison seemed like he made 100 tackles on these Brady short passes. How can they better protect the middle against this type of attack? Is it our players or scheme? Defend it... We kept leaving it wide open playing so deep off the WR's trying to avoid getting beat deep
billsfan89 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Defend it... We kept leaving it wide open playing so deep off the WR's trying to avoid getting beat deep The thing is that on most teams we can do that. But against the Pats* you just can't Moss and Brady are too good they will burn you deep and they have done it against teams often. The Giants in the Super Bowl illustrated what you have to do to beat the Pats* and that is put pressure on Brady only using your front 4. If you have 7 back in coverage it takes away the intimidate quick throw and the deep ball, than the pressure takes away the mid range and short throws. Against Tampa we can do things like Blitz and gear coverage for shorter gains they don't have the personnel to take advantage of what we will have to give up to do that.
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Tackle better. How many times did Kevin Faulk or Wes Welker catch the ball short of a first down and make someone miss to gain a first down? The key to playing the way we were playing is solid tacking. If they throw a 3 yard pass and the first man puts the receiver down you'll let them run that all day long. Not very many. I remember it happening one time each against Welker and Faulk.
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Against the Patriots you have to pick your poison. You cannot defend against the big play and take away the short stuff. They have too many weapons and too good of a QB. It simply cannot be done. You cannot shut down the entire field against most teams in the NFL, but that is especially true against the Pats. You have to make them take 3-7 yard gains all the way down the field and hope that someone on their team screws up during that time so you can capitalize with a turnover or sack. That being said, the Bills defended the Pats as well as anyone I've seen while Brady was playing in a long time, other than of course the Giants, who had the luxury of the meanest pass rush in the NFL. You really should not be complaining at all about our defense. They played so far above expectations that it is not even funny. Any other team in the league I think would have had less than 200 total yards that game. Maybe the Colts could have worked it effectively because Peyton can make those reads just as well if not better than Tom Brady, but he does not have the weaponry to force us into soft coverage so the point is probably moot. Anyway, there was nothing on defense that needs to be fixed, other than a missed open field tackle or two, which happens to every team, no matter how good they are. It isn't like it was a chronic problem as some people suggest. Some people just don't understand the dynamics of the game.
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 The thing is that on most teams we can do that. But against the Pats* you just can't Moss and Brady are too good they will burn you deep and they have done it against teams often. The Giants in the Super Bowl illustrated what you have to do to beat the Pats* and that is put pressure on Brady only using your front 4. If you have 7 back in coverage it takes away the intimidate quick throw and the deep ball, than the pressure takes away the mid range and short throws. Against Tampa we can do things like Blitz and gear coverage for shorter gains they don't have the personnel to take advantage of what we will have to give up to do that. Don't bother responding to Alphadawg. He thinks that if you get burned you can just run off of one side of the screen and appear back on the other side like you could on the old Atari football game... Better players and a better system. That oughtta do it. The NFC pro bowl team would not be able to defend against it. And there was absolutely nothing wrong with the system. You have to understand that Tom Brady and his offense are not stoppable consistently. They are too good. You have to make them use 15 play drives to score, because the more plays they have to run, the more likely they are to make a mistake. That is what the Bills did, and frankly it surprises me how many of you seem to have forgotten that we had the Pats bent over a barrel taking up the 455 until a fluke fumble by a single player cost us the game.
TDO'Kearney Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 The NFC pro bowl team would not be able to defend against it. And there was absolutely nothing wrong with the system. You have to understand that Tom Brady and his offense are not stoppable consistently. They are too good. You have to make them use 15 play drives to score, because the more plays they have to run, the more likely they are to make a mistake. That is what the Bills did, and frankly it surprises me how many of you seem to have forgotten that we had the Pats bent over a barrel taking up the 455 until a fluke fumble by a single player cost us the game. I know not many here like Jauron-ball most of the time, but I agree, it WAS the thing to do against that offense once Brady got his groove back. Make them go down the field in 6-10 yard chunks, pray for more opportunities for a mistake or a turnover. The only thing worse than a 3:26 TD drive when you're nursing an 11 point lead with 5 minutes left is a 7 second TD drive. I know we could say don't let them score at all, but easier said than done. Only the Giants have shown that they have a defensive line that is so ridiculously talented and deep that they could get in Brady's face every play with just their front 4, and even their backups get pressure with 4. No one else has a D line that good. The Pats under Brady did that to EVERYONE in 2007. No one was able to stop them except NY in the SuperBowl. If McKelvin doesn't fumble, the offense had a very good chance of closing that game out, if not putting the Pats 75 yards away with almost no time left. You can't play conservative AND commit turnovers, the game plan is not to make those mistakes.
billsfan89 Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 The NFC pro bowl team would not be able to defend against it. And there was absolutely nothing wrong with the system. You have to understand that Tom Brady and his offense are not stoppable consistently. They are too good. You have to make them use 15 play drives to score, because the more plays they have to run, the more likely they are to make a mistake. That is what the Bills did, and frankly it surprises me how many of you seem to have forgotten that we had the Pats bent over a barrel taking up the 455 until a fluke fumble by a single player cost us the game. I know not many here like Jauron-ball most of the time, but I agree, it WAS the thing to do against that offense once Brady got his groove back. Make them go down the field in 6-10 yard chunks, pray for more opportunities for a mistake or a turnover. The only thing worse than a 3:26 TD drive when you're nursing an 11 point lead with 5 minutes left is a 7 second TD drive. I know we could say don't let them score at all, but easier said than done. Only the Giants have shown that they have a defensive line that is so ridiculously talented and deep that they could get in Brady's face every play with just their front 4, and even their backups get pressure with 4. No one else has a D line that good. The Pats under Brady did that to EVERYONE in 2007. No one was able to stop them except NY in the SuperBowl. If McKelvin doesn't fumble, the offense had a very good chance of closing that game out, if not putting the Pats 75 yards away with almost no time left. You can't play conservative AND commit turnovers, the game plan is not to make those mistakes. Its not rocket science if the Bills had the ball at the 28 with the 2 minute warning gone all they would have needed was a first down and game over. Sure the Bills could have still lost even if McKelvin didn't fumble. They could have gone 3 and out and the Pats* could have gotten the ball back with a minute and a half back at their own 30 but it would have been a much better situation than what ended up being OH WELL you move on and let it go. In the end the Giants (And even the Ravens in 2007 where they lost because they called a timeout and even the Bills in the first half) proved how to beat the Pats* all you need to do is put 7 in Coverage and get pressure with the front 4. It takes away the deep ball and makes Brady unable to throw it quick so the pressure gets to him. 7 in coverage + pressure with the front 4 = Pats* loss.
Big Turk Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 not play cover 2 yes unfortunately, that is the basic answer... Cover 2 is designed to have the safeties playing over the top of the corners with the 2 corners and 3 LBs responsible for 1/5 the of the field each in their zones... This is why you see so many short crossing patterns, because it forces the D to keep passing off the players to the next zone, which allows the player to usually get a few steps on that defender... It is designed to keep things in front of the D and not allow deep balls to the WRs. The Bills do a pretty good job at limiting the deep passes, but usually play way too soft on the underneath stuff. Unless you get a consistent pass rush, the Cover 2 is susceptible to being nickeled and dimed up and down the field all day...
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