timba Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 "Who do you recommend get the axe? Bobby April for his guy bringing the ball out of the end zone? Perry for having the same defense called in the same situation that NE scored the first one on? Dick Jauron for being Dick Jauron? What do you think the major benefits are for switching these individuals now?I've noticed this habit on the board... the SECOND somebody has a different idea on a topic they are called an idiot, and no opposite argument is provided. It's simply 'you don't agree with me?! you're obviously stupid!' People are way too eager to try to prove their superiority over others, and you just look ignorant because of it. Explain your point in a different way and let them know WHY you think their idea is not the proper course. " Timba - I believe the best way to start is to dismiss DJ. Like Schottenheimer was released for not being able to win in the playoffs. DJ showed he has no control of this team. McKelvin is programmed to catch the ball and run as fast as he can. DJ is responsible for making sure the right move is made, relaying that to the (in this case) Special Teams coach, who then gives the order to the player (if the player goes rogue, then he should be released). He did not do this in this case. He has proven that he can not win in games like this...which ultimately determines whether or not you make the playoffs or have a successful season. He can not do either, thus he should be removed. Look at it this way...whether or not you all want to admit it, this entire season is a total wash because the Bills will not make the playoffs (you'll kick yourself in December when that becomes more evident)...so, the Bills can begin the process now, lose big and hope for a big draft pick, or maybe win something like 5 games, and just keep Joe Fan waiting to see what happens. Personally, I prefer sooner than later, it demonstrates to me that the organization wants to "FIND" a way to win. And they cant win with this coaching staff. May sound drastic, but if it were me, I would dismiss the entire coaching staff other than Van Pelt... and start over...yes, in the beginning of the season. Just My Opinion, and yes, if you dont agree with me I tend to believe you're an idiot. Alright, I can see where you're coming from here. You're definitely looking more long term than I am. My original thought to your post was 'how does this help us get better this year?' and my belief is getting rid of the current staff, including DJ, would not help us win more games THIS YEAR. However, looking in the long term and believing this season is at a loss (my foolish hope won't allow that yet) I agree that removing Jauron is prudent. These last few years have shown that he is a liability on the sideline when the game is on the line. He doesn't seem to inspire his players to be their best, and his conservative style doesn't allow our players to be play-makers. That McKelvin took that ball out shows, if the call DID in fact come from DJ, that maybe he's trying to move away from that conservative approach. Before the outcry, in the situation we were in (receiving the kickoff with the lead with 2:06 left) I would have called for the knee. For once we had the lead and the offense was efficient for most of the day up to that point. However, the other side is if McKelvin takes it out and can burn 6 seconds we only need one first down and that's the game. They made their decision and I'm ok with it (after cursing and muttering about it for several hours of course). I guess in summary, if it's sure that the season is at a loss, I'd be willing to support canning DJ.
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 That said, Fewell's defensive play calling was the reason we were in that position to begin with (same thing with the Dallas game two years ago). After playing well against the Pats all night, they played soft once they went up by 11. I never understood why they just didn't stick with what was working the whole game. This. And the oline giving up two sacks didn't help either. They played well all night, then gave up two sacks when we were trying to get in FG position. After that TO catch, It almost looked like they could get in FG range. then the sacks came, and we knew it was over then.
BuffaloBill Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Again, when you are at the absolute bottom (ie have not been to the playoffs in forever), which is where the Bills are, HOW CAN IT POSSIBLY GET ANY WORSE? Still not one person on this board has been able to answer that question. Stop wasting your time trying to justify losing. Is your phone ringing? If he has not already, Ralph will be calling soon to get your advice.
JOHNNYFAIRPLAY Posted September 17, 2009 Author Posted September 17, 2009 Is your phone ringing? If he has not already, Ralph will be calling soon to get your advice. That is funny. Guys, I think McKelvin bringing it out was the right call. However, before McKelvin steps on the field, DJ tells April, "You tell him, to run it out of the endzone, horizontally to kill 6 seconds. One of two things will happen next, one of the Pats will get close enough to touch him, or 6 seconds will run off the clock, either way, FALL DOWN and lay there until he hears a whistle." If that happens, the bills win the game due to being up two scores, NE having 3 TO's. That didnt happen, and its this type of mistake that in consistently made. It sounds crazy, but I could have won that game as a coach by doing exactly what I typed above. If I could have won, with no experience and NFL head coach, how can we justify continuing a season knowing the staff will not allow us to win? (I think Van Pelt should stay, not because I'm a homer, but because he is a good coach and hasnt proved otherwise) Its just been too long, and too much losing and I am for the most extreme measures to be taken.
Mickey Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Again, when you are at the absolute bottom (ie have not been to the playoffs in forever), which is where the Bills are, HOW CAN IT POSSIBLY GET ANY WORSE? Still not one person on this board has been able to answer that question. Stop wasting your time trying to justify losing. Why not fire van pelt? Afterall, the WR's dropped several passes and there were a number of penalties on the line. He is the top offensive coach, it is his responsibility to make sure that the players don't make dumb mistakes and clearly, he has failed to live up to that responsibility so why not fire him? Your logic could be used to justify firing anyone and everyone on the team.
Captain Caveman Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 1. 7-9 > 0-16 I'm not sure how long you've been a Bills fan, but it really sucks to have a real loser, and I'd much rather have a team who can win most games than a team that has no hope. It hurts more when they do end up being eliminated from playoff contention, but that's because you still care. Try being a Lions fan for a while and see if you still think there's no difference. 2. Fact: Dick Jauron has not won enough here. That does not mean he "has proven he can't win". He won 13 games and was coach of the year less than a decade ago. I'm not saying he will turn things around; I do think he has a better chance with this team, this year, than anyone else you could get to come here right now, especially if we end up firing our head coach after one game. We need to be proactive, not reactive. In other words, a decision should be made based on what the outcome might be, not because of what has happened in the past. In my opinion, the likely outcome of keeping him (through this year at least) is far more desirable than the likely outcome if he were to be fired today.
MRW Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Captain Caveman is absolutely right when he asks who will come here after the coaching staff is fired one game into the season. Look, I was appalled when the team gave Jauron that extension, but non-joke NFL franchises don't just can everyone after the first game. What coach in his right mind would want to work for an organization that does that? Now, if the team limps into mid-season at 1-7, 2-6, 0-8, then fine. There's ample precedent for firing an underachieving coach after a few games are under their belt. But what you're advocating is a recipe for a never-ending treadmill of hiring losers who are desperate enough to work for a dysfunctional organization.
IndyJay1234 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 That is funny. Guys, I think McKelvin bringing it out was the right call. However, before McKelvin steps on the field, DJ tells April, "You tell him, to run it out of the endzone, horizontally to kill 6 seconds. One of two things will happen next, one of the Pats will get close enough to touch him, or 6 seconds will run off the clock, either way, FALL DOWN and lay there until he hears a whistle." If that happens, the bills win the game due to being up two scores, NE having 3 TO's. That didnt happen, and its this type of mistake that in consistently made. It sounds crazy, but I could have won that game as a coach by doing exactly what I typed above. If I could have won, with no experience and NFL head coach, how can we justify continuing a season knowing the staff will not allow us to win? (I think Van Pelt should stay, not because I'm a homer, but because he is a good coach and hasnt proved otherwise) Its just been too long, and too much losing and I am for the most extreme measures to be taken. "The bills win the game due to being up two scores" They were up by five points. And if we dont agree with you we are idiots? WOW
IndyJay1234 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 1. 7-9 > 0-16 I'm not sure how long you've been a Bills fan, but it really sucks to have a real loser, and I'd much rather have a team who can win most games than a team that has no hope. It hurts more when they do end up being eliminated from playoff contention, but that's because you still care. Try being a Lions fan for a while and see if you still think there's no difference. 2. Fact: Dick Jauron has not won enough here. That does not mean he "has proven he can't win". He won 13 games and was coach of the year less than a decade ago. I'm not saying he will turn things around; I do think he has a better chance with this team, this year, than anyone else you could get to come here right now, especially if we end up firing our head coach after one game. We need to be proactive, not reactive. In other words, a decision should be made based on what the outcome might be, not because of what has happened in the past. In my opinion, the likely outcome of keeping him (through this year at least) is far more desirable than the likely outcome if he were to be fired today. Logic? You are using logic and reason on a Buffalo Bills message board?
manbeast Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Again, when you are at the absolute bottom (ie have not been to the playoffs in forever), which is where the Bills are, HOW CAN IT POSSIBLY GET ANY WORSE? Still not one person on this board has been able to answer that question. Stop wasting your time trying to justify losing. yep we didn't meet expectations on monday we were suppose to beat NE everyone believed that right we should go undefeated every year like everyone else does. STFU
KD in CA Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 [This is an automated response] This subject matter is being currently being discussed or has already been discussed in MULTIPLE threads. Please consider using the "brain" function before starting yet another stupid thread. Thank you.
JOHNNYFAIRPLAY Posted September 17, 2009 Author Posted September 17, 2009 1. 7-9 > 0-16 I'm not sure how long you've been a Bills fan, but it really sucks to have a real loser, and I'd much rather have a team who can win most games than a team that has no hope. It hurts more when they do end up being eliminated from playoff contention, but that's because you still care. Try being a Lions fan for a while and see if you still think there's no difference. 2. Fact: Dick Jauron has not won enough here. That does not mean he "has proven he can't win". He won 13 games and was coach of the year less than a decade ago. I'm not saying he will turn things around; I do think he has a better chance with this team, this year, than anyone else you could get to come here right now, especially if we end up firing our head coach after one game. We need to be proactive, not reactive. In other words, a decision should be made based on what the outcome might be, not because of what has happened in the past. In my opinion, the likely outcome of keeping him (through this year at least) is far more desirable than the likely outcome if he were to be fired today. 1. As 7-9 is Greater than 0-16, they both give the same result = Losing season and no playoffs...does having a couple wins make you feel better? Because that is the only difference in those two records. 2. Proactive would be A. Firing the coaching stafff B. Cutting McKelvin. Both show losing is not tolerated and we're fixing things now, rather than in the off season. Either way, its going to be hard to get a good coach in here because Im under the impression that RW just doesnt care.
Cugalabanza Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 2. Proactive would be A. Firing the coaching stafff B. Cutting McKelvin. Pretty sure that would fall under REactionary, not proactive.
JOHNNYFAIRPLAY Posted September 17, 2009 Author Posted September 17, 2009 Pretty sure that would fall under REactionary not proactive. naah, its over your head Gringo
tennesseeboy Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I don't see any point in firing anyone right now. I think DJ is on the block but will continue to be until the season is over, because there isn't anyone else who is going to come in and make a change during the season. April is considered one of the premier special teams coaches, AVP is looking find and the defense is good. Nah...I think we play it out and see if DJ earns himself another year. I suspect he will be fired when the season ends if we don't make the playoffs.
Cugalabanza Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 naah, its over your head Gringo ok, thanks
timba Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 ok, thanks I think you see it as a reactive because it's a result of their poor performance that has already happened but he sees it as proactive because it's the first step in putting the team on the right track... I think.
Cugalabanza Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I think you see it as a reactive because it's a result of their poor performance that has already happened but he sees it as proactive because it's the first step in putting the team on the right track... I think. Yup and I'll let everybody think about that and decide which more accurately describes firing your head coach and the guy who fumbled after a tough loss. I won't say anymore because according to Mr.Fairplay, I'm an idiot and it's over my head.
Captain Caveman Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 naah, its over your head Gringo I'm beginning to think a midget's balls would be over your head, Johnny.
Tcali Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Look, before Monday I was ready to see DJ and everyone dumped, but the Bills played an awesome game on Monday. I think AVP called a great game and, for having the cajones to fire Turk when he did, I think it buys DJ a few more weeks. As for Bobby April, I think it was the right call. Some impartial (i.e. non-Bills fan) friends of mine pointed out that he was right to bring it out since it ran more time off the clock and could have even deprived New England of an extra clock stoppage depending on how they played it. There was 2:06 on the clock. If he brings it out, the clock would run down to the two-minute warning. If he kneels, the Bills have to take a snap before the two-minute warning. That said, Fewell's defensive play calling was the reason we were in that position to begin with (same thing with the Dallas game two years ago). After playing well against the Pats all night, they played soft once they went up by 11. I never understood why they just didn't stick with what was working the whole game. exactly--of COURSE he shoulda run it out...erasing the 2 minute warning and the xtra time out it provides.the mistake was struggling for that extra 2 yds... Sadly Fewell went soft with the 11 point lead.BIG MISTAKE. The rest of his gameplan was solid.I happen to think Fewell is a good coach--but he got Jauronitis the last 5 minutes.
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