WHOA Trent PWNED Brady - check it out

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

Very true. A;so, If we dont find a way to make our WR's dangerous underneath then they will never find any day light down field. Right now it is WAY too easy to take them out of the game. Part of the reason to me seems Trent still isnt seeing the Defense well enough yet. Let me explain...

 

Look at Bradys pass to Watson (the first one). Brady literally fires the ball while Watson is blanketed to a spot in the endzone where he anticiaptes Watson will be open. Trent rarely does this because he doesnt see the D well enough yet. In fact, that dropped pass to Evans should have been thrown way sooner as Lee was about to make his break, but instead Trent thows the pass once he has made his break and is open. The result is he is no longer as open and gets lit up as he makes the catch which leads to the ball be jarred lose for a drop.

 

Thats the difference between the greats and the game managers. Game manages need to make the safe throws because they dont see the field well enough to exploit the holes in the D. I only hope Trent grows here under AVP in this area or he will have a hard time developing to anything more than another Kelly Holcomb.

 

Alphadawg your philosophy of throwing down the field is fundamentally flawed. The Patriots showed emphatically that they would not allow us to beat them deep under any circumstances. Thus Jackson vs a linebacker was a greater mismatch that Lee or TO in single coverage on a DB. If this was not true, the Pats would have at least dropped into some kind of soft zone defense to attempt to take away some of that underneath game without necessarily putting anyone in single coverage on TO and/or Lee. But they didn't. Therefore you have to realize that Trent was making the right reads and executing the offense with a tremendous degree of efficiency. If not for a fluke fumble at the end of the game this wouldn't even be an argument at all, as Brady would have lost the game and had 1 fewer TDs, thus your argument is baseless, remedial, and invalid.

[Guest dog14787]

Dog never gets trolled by me. Well maybe once. Or twice. But usually not =p. Amen dude.

 

I also don't understand how people who make the argument that Trent wasn't as impressive because his throws were short failed to realize that Tom Brady was doing the same thing. The difference was that Moss and Welker still exposed our defense the same way we exposed theirs. The mismatch in their case, due to our different base defense, rather than being backs lined up against linebackers, was single coverage in our underneath zones against Moss and Welker. The philosophy was the same in that neither team was going to give up anything deep, but both new they would be vulnerable underneath and willing to make the opposing QB exploit that. Both did so effectively. Trent was more effective because he had the same amount of TDs (we all know that one of Brady's TDs should have never happened anyway...it did I know but still, a fluke is a fluke), fewer interceptions, and more yardage per attempt and yardage per completion. And the 3 screens that we ran were effective because a) Trent was effectively forcing the Pats to Blitz and try to pressure him by consistently tearing them up on short yardage passes to mismatched receivers, and b) Trent correctly recognized the blitz at the line and called the correct play (you realize of course that Trent probably has as least three options to choose from on any given play that can be called at the line based on the front he sees and run out of whatever formation in which they are lined up - I believe the whole reason DJ wanted a simpler offense was so that Trent would have even more plays to choose from on any given down to be called at the line out of each formation).

 

More audibles per formation with less formations equals better execution, especially for a young, inexperienced offense.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

TE kind of reminded me a little of of Peyton Manning as he ran the no huddle which is a good thing, he really looked comfortable. More than I ever remember him looking.

[Heels20X6]

Dog never gets trolled by me. Well maybe once. Or twice. But usually not =p. Amen dude.

 

I also don't understand how people who make the argument that Trent wasn't as impressive because his throws were short failed to realize that Tom Brady was doing the same thing. The difference was that Moss and Welker still exposed our defense the same way we exposed theirs. The mismatch in their case, due to our different base defense, rather than being backs lined up against linebackers, was single coverage in our underneath zones against Moss and Welker. The philosophy was the same in that neither team was going to give up anything deep, but both new they would be vulnerable underneath and willing to make the opposing QB exploit that. Both did so effectively. Trent was more effective because he had the same amount of TDs (we all know that one of Brady's TDs should have never happened anyway...it did I know but still, a fluke is a fluke), fewer interceptions, and more yardage per attempt and yardage per completion. And the 3 screens that we ran were effective because a) Trent was effectively forcing the Pats to Blitz and try to pressure him by consistently tearing them up on short yardage passes to mismatched receivers, and b) Trent correctly recognized the blitz at the line and called the correct play (you realize of course that Trent probably has as least three options to choose from on any given play that can be called at the line based on the front he sees and run out of whatever formation in which they are lined up - I believe the whole reason DJ wanted a simpler offense was so that Trent would have even more plays to choose from on any given down to be called at the line out of each formation).

 

 

Very few people are stating that Trent wasn't impressive last night. In fact, most people are commending Trent for playing a solid game and putting the Bills in a position to win. Some of us (with so-called "football knowledge") have come to the agreement that for this offense to be truly successful, Trent has to incorporate the receivers more often, especially when those receivers are pro-bowl caliber.

 

What most of us are taking umbrage to is your ridiculous extrapolation to your ridiculous statement that Trent outplayed Brady. Anyone with two eyes saw that Brady had the better game. END OF STORY. Stop flexing your e-penis about how much you know when your first post doesn't support the argument at all. We appreciate your enthusiasm for Trent and most of us hope he transitions into the #1 QB we've been waiting on for a decade now, but inane arguments like this do nothing to help the cause.

[Heels20X6]

More audibles per formation with less formations equals better execution, especially for a young, inexperienced offense.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

TE kind of reminded me a little of of Peyton Manning as he ran the no huddle which is a good thing, he really looked comfortable. More than I ever remember him looking.

 

 

Agreed! In week two though, against an inexperienced Bucs D, let's open it up a little more and shred them with slants and crossing routes. Let's give them a steady dose of Freddie, TO and Lee! Dial it up AVP!

[thebug]

Agreed! In week two though, against an inexperienced Bucs D, let's open it up a little more and shred them with slants and crossing routes. Let's give them a steady dose of Freddie, TO and Lee! Dial it up AVP!

 

eh to dat man! I can't wait.

 

GO BILLS!

 

Quick little edit after just reading announcement about language filter...

[Alphadawg7]

Alphadawg your philosophy of throwing down the field is fundamentally flawed. The Patriots showed emphatically that they would not allow us to beat them deep under any circumstances. Thus Jackson vs a linebacker was a greater mismatch that Lee or TO in single coverage on a DB. If this was not true, the Pats would have at least dropped into some kind of soft zone defense to attempt to take away some of that underneath game without necessarily putting anyone in single coverage on TO and/or Lee. But they didn't. Therefore you have to realize that Trent was making the right reads and executing the offense with a tremendous degree of efficiency. If not for a fluke fumble at the end of the game this wouldn't even be an argument at all, as Brady would have lost the game and had 1 fewer TDs, thus your argument is baseless, remedial, and invalid.

 

Dude, seriously, learn to read or stop replying. I said we need to get the ball in the WR's hands, you are the one that keeps bringing up the fact they werent open. Please show me where I said anything about still forcing the ball to them in any thread while not open...I challenge you.

 

I have repeated ACKNOWLEDGED they were NOT open and double covered. I said where we fell short was not ADJUSTING to that and running quick routes to GET THEM OPEN where Trent can get them the ball. It is EXACTLY what NE did to us...Bottom line, NE adjusted at halftime and we did NOT...that equaled a better offensive second half for NE and ultimately a win.

 

I said AVP needs to adjust when our WRs havent gotten open at all down field and start bringing them on short quick routes. This is not a confusing concept, its called ADJUSTING to what D is giving you. IF they wont let you beat them deep with your wideouts, you bring them in close and run slants BEFORE (do understand the word "before") the double coverage gets there. You dont rely on a RB for your entire passing game the whole game at this level.

 

Two, I never said it was Trents fault, I said it was AVP for not making the adjustment. Its the OC responsibility to make the adjustment, especially when Trent audibles to a run on 7 of his 8 audibles.

 

Dam, whats your deal man? You cant be this dense? I mean you dont even read the posts, you just open your mouth and insert your foot.

 

While AVP imprint on the offense was positive, he still failed to make the necessary adjustments for our O to be consistent. It was his first game, so I expect he will be better and feel better about him now then before Monday, but seriously his lack of adjusting to the NE scheme was a factor in our loss.

[Alphadawg7]

fukn eh to dat man! I can't wait.

 

GO BILLS!

 

Me too...with the first game jitters gone for our rookies and AVP I expect to see more out of this offense against a suspect D. I cant wait to see the O Line again and I dont think I have ever said that in my life. Even when I played LB in college the O Line was boring to me...lmao...

 

I really hope to see a bigger dose of Nelson too...he can really help make this unit dynamic

[Guest dog14787]

Very few people are stating that Trent wasn't impressive last night. In fact, most people are commending Trent for playing a solid game and putting the Bills in a position to win. Some of us (with so-called "football knowledge") have come to the agreement that for this offense to be truly successful, Trent has to incorporate the receivers more often, especially when those receivers are pro-bowl caliber.

 

What most of us are taking umbrage to is your ridiculous extrapolation to your ridiculous statement that Trent outplayed Brady. Anyone with two eyes saw that Brady had the better game. END OF STORY. Stop flexing your e-penis about how much you know when your first post doesn't support the argument at all. We appreciate your enthusiasm for Trent and most of us hope he transitions into the #1 QB we've been waiting on for a decade now, but inane arguments like this do nothing to help the cause.

 

 

Trent did out play Brady in my opinion, thanks in part to our defense and Brady just got lucky. Brady threw a pick for a returned TD, did TE throw one? Who had the highest QB rating?

 

I know, but Brady won the game...

[Alphadawg7]

Very few people are stating that Trent wasn't impressive last night. In fact, most people are commending Trent for playing a solid game and putting the Bills in a position to win. Some of us (with so-called "football knowledge") have come to the agreement that for this offense to be truly successful, Trent has to incorporate the receivers more often, especially when those receivers are pro-bowl caliber.

 

What most of us are taking umbrage to is your ridiculous extrapolation to your ridiculous statement that Trent outplayed Brady. Anyone with two eyes saw that Brady had the better game. END OF STORY. Stop flexing your e-penis about how much you know when your first post doesn't support the argument at all. We appreciate your enthusiasm for Trent and most of us hope he transitions into the #1 QB we've been waiting on for a decade now, but inane arguments like this do nothing to help the cause.

 

[Heels20X6]

Trent did out play Brady in my opinion, thanks in part to our defense and Brady just got lucky. Brady threw a pick for a returned TD, did TE throw one? Who had the highest QB rating?

 

I know, but Brady won the game...

 

Dog...I like your enthusiasm for our team. It's positive but not over-the-top.

 

What I'm getting sick of is coming to this board and seeing a internet pissing contest between Alphadawg and SouthGeorgiaBillsFan to see who can pull the most "stats" out of their arse to hammer home whatever agenda/crusade they're on.

 

With Alphadawg, we all know his schtick. He doesn't like Trent as the QB...he's going to go out of his way to criticize him regardless of how good a performance he has because that's his "cause" I guess...

 

On the other side is SouthGeorgiaBillsFan, who's demanding they build a bust for Trent in Canton with his fanatacism and when people even slightly disagree with his assessment, he resorts to boasting about his "football knowledge" and hurling childish insults at other posters.

 

I'm personally getting sick of both of these two monopolizing our boards with their opinions passed as facts. Can't we all just f###ing agree that Trent had a good start to the season from which he and AVP can build on?!? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?!?

[Alphadawg7]

Trent did out play Brady in my opinion, thanks in part to our defense, and Brady just got lucky. Brady threw a pick, did TE throw one? Who had the highest QB rating?

 

I know, but Brady won the game...

 

I am not going to pick on here Dog, but let me show you some stats:

 

Who do you think has the higher rating with these stat lines?

1. 378 yards, 4 TD's, 1 INT, 74% completion percentage

2. 212 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT, 60% completion percentage

 

Give up...here is the answer...

 

1. Player one has a 110.4 rating

2. Player two has a 114.1 rating

 

Player 1 is that exact stat line for Brady excpet I added TWO MORE TD's to calculate his rating and its STILL lower than Trents. No one on this earth would take stat line #2 over stat line #1 or dare to say stat line 2 is better than stat line 1, and yet stat line 2 has a better rating.

 

Stat line 2 has 166 yards LESS passing, 2 TD's LESS, and a 14% LOWER completion percentage...but yet is 4 points higher in the rating system, all because of one lousy INT. It ignores the extra 14 points and plethora of offense generated by QB 1. In fact, if you add one more TD and give Brady FIVE Td's he would only have a rating of 116, just 2 pts higher than Trent despite producing 21 more points and almost double the offense.

 

This is why professional athletes, coaches, and analysts dont put a lot of stock into QB rating because it has no reliable indication of on field performance. The rating system rewards safe conservative play and does not reflect effectiveness of real live game play.

 

Brady had a Brady second half and won the game while our offense fizzled. Trent was solid, but Brady was better, I mean he completed SEVENTY FOUR percent of his passes while throwing FIFTY THREE times...do you know how hard that is?

[Alphadawg7]

Dog...I like your enthusiasm for our team. It's positive but not over-the-top.

 

What I'm getting sick of is coming to this board and seeing a internet pissing contest between Alphadawg and SouthGeorgiaBillsFan to see who can pull the most "stats" out of their arse to hammer home whatever agenda/crusade they're on.

 

With Alphadawg, we all know his schtick. He doesn't like Trent as the QB...he's going to go out of his way to criticize him regardless of how good a performance he has because that's his "cause" I guess...

 

On the other side is SouthGeorgiaBillsFan, who's demanding they build a bust for Trent in Canton with his fanatacism and when people even slightly disagree with his assessment, he resorts to boasting about his "football knowledge" and hurling childish insults at other posters.

 

I'm personally getting sick of both of these two monopolizing our boards with their opinions passed as facts. Can't we all just f###ing agree that Trent had a good start to the season from which he and AVP can build on?!? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?!?

 

Heels, I respect your post, but please show me one thread where I said Trent didnt have a good game? Please, just one. I have complimented Trent all day long, in fact, my criticism has been to the lack of adjusting by AVP to get our WR's involved.

 

I keep my posts to mostly facts, not opinnions, and if you dont belive me go back and really read what I write. For the last time, I dont hate Trent, I dont want to see him fail, and I wear his Jersery and I was encouraged by his play yesterday.

 

I realize that most posters dont get that because I allow myself to get sucked in by the rediculous claims like this jackass about how Trent was better than Brady and it comes across as I dont like Trent. Thats my fault and I get to reign that in. But if you really read my posts you will see that I discuss Trents game play in those threads and where he needs to improve. But, when you get morons coming back with outlandish statements and claims, making up stats to make a point, manipulating info to make Trents past play better than it was, its hard not to get sucked in.

 

So to you and anyone else, I apologize for letting myself get sucked in by those foolish posts because then it makes me out to be on a crusade when I am whole heartedly not. More importantly it does take over the board as those threads with those claims are everywhere.

 

I want this team to win as much as anyone, and I hope Trent can be the guy to lead us there, but please dont say I want him to fail so I can be right on a lousy message board where I will never meet or see any of you. In all seriousness, my life is a dream and spectacular, the last thing I care about in this world would be to see Trent fail so I could say I told you so on this board.

[Thurman#1]

Umm yes actually he did HANDILY out-play Tom Brady. If you extrapolate Trent's numbers across the same number of plays, the comparison would look like this:

 

Trent: 32/53 (15/25 = 60% | 32/53 = 60%) 450 yards (8.5 ypa x 53 attempts); 4 TDs (53 attempts / 12.5 attempts per TD); 0 ints

Brady: 39/53 378 yards; 2 TDs; 1 int

 

This extrapolation was based on the individual passing statistics listed on espn:

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=290914017

 

Surely you would recognize that the quarterback with substantially more attempts would have more yardage and TD opportunities. So if you apply Trents actual numbers across the same numbers of attempts, you can make a very reasonable argument that Trents actual numbers were FAR more impressive than Tom Brady. So yea, the rating was in this case a very accurate indicator of performance for those two QBs. But thanks for playing.

 

Also, if you think Trent wasn't looking down field enough, we can observe the comparison between yards per *completion*:

 

Trent: 212 yards/15 completions = 14.1 yards per completion (which is effing RIGHTEOUS)

Brady: 378 yards /39 completions = 9.7 yards per completion (good but not Trent Edwards good)

 

So clearly, he was getting more plays down field for more yards per capita than Tom Brady. If we didn't have at least 3 balls dropped that should have been caught, even *if* they weren't exactly perfect, the difference between Edwards and Brady would be even more profound.

 

This post was originally posted in response on like the fourth page of a thread started by another forum member, but I found it so intriguing after I did the calculations that I thought you would all appreciate a new thread for it.

 

 

 

The QB with more attempts also has more chances for INTs. I liked what Trent did today. But he didn't play better than Brady.

 

And a lot of those "downfield plays" you talk about that Trent had were screen passes.

 

Interesting calculations. But don't get carried away.

[VJ91]

...So, agree or not, using your two most DANGEROUS offensive weapons as deep decoys so you can throw to a RB is not going to win you many games, therefore its fundamentally flawed if that is the game plan. Its one thing to take what the D is giving you, but its another to NOT make any adjustments to get the ball into your two best players hands by running shorter quicker routes and getting the ball to them before the double comes.

 

I mean thats literally football 101...

 

Please stop trying to prove the Bills offense sucked. It did not suck. They scored 17 points against a very good Belicheck coached defense on the road in a very loud hostile environment, on MNF after a horrible preseason. Add Schoebel's TD and 24 points is the most the Bills have scored against New England in how many years now?? Personally, my opinion is that neither Owens or Evans (combined 15 Million dollars worth of WR), played well at all. Both dropped perfect third down passes that would have kept two drives alive. Neither seemed to be open at all most of the night.

 

In a terrific all around effort, there is only two areas where the Bills really sucked. Their 3rd down defense, and Leodis McKelvin's run backs. (Lest we forget, he fumbled another one that Harris was able to scoop up and advance another 12 yards earlier in the game!) I cannot imagine why McKelvin should be allowed to run back another kick off this season. If DJ and April go all "shake it off Leodis we still love you man" and keep him back there, they at least had better run a lot of drills where the defenders try to rip the ball out of his hands over and over in practice.

[Mickey]

But if you look at the play-by-play stats provided by NFL GSIS, he DIDN'T go downfield on every long passing gain. Not even close. For your viewing pleasure, here's a list of every completion for more than 10 yards:

 

1-10-NE 33 (4:03) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 22-F.Jackson pushed ob at NE 12 for 21 yards (23-L.Bodden).

1st Down Passing: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 21 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), -3 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 21 yards Pass Target: BUF 22 (F.Jackson) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 24 yards Solo Tackle: NE 23 (L.Bodden)

 

2-9-NE 11 (3:03) (No Huddle) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 89-S.Nelson for 11 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

1st Down Passing: BUF Passing Yards, TD: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 11 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 1 yards

Pass Reception Yards, TD: BUF 89 (S.Nelson), 11 yards Pass Target: BUF 89 (S.Nelson) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 89 (S.Nelson), 10 yards

 

2-9-BUF 21 (5:55) (No Huddle) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 22-F.Jackson pushed ob at BUF 37 for 16 yards (59-G.Guyton).

1st Down Passing: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 16 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 2 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 16 yards Pass Target: BUF 22 (F.Jackson) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 14 yards Solo Tackle: NE 59 (G.Guyton)

 

2-8-BUF 29 (:40) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 83-L.Evans to BUF 39 for 10 yards (29-S.Springs, 31-B.Meriweather).

1st Down Passing: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 10 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 10 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 83 (L.Evans), 10 yards Pass Target: BUF 83 (L.Evans) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 83 (L.Evans), 0 yards Assisted Tackle: NE 29 (S.Springs) Tackle Assist: NE 31 (B.Meriweather)

 

2-9-BUF 21 (5:55) (No Huddle) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 22-F.Jackson pushed ob at BUF 37 for 16 yards (59-G.Guyton).

1st Down Passing: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 16 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 2 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 16 yards Pass Target: BUF 22 (F.Jackson) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 14 yards Solo Tackle: NE 59 (G.Guyton)

 

1-10-BUF 26 (14:32) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 22-F.Jackson to BUF 41 for 15 yards (24-J.Wilhite, 31-B.Meriweather).

1st Down Passing: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 15 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), -2 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 15 yards Pass Target: BUF 22 (F.Jackson) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 17 yards Assisted Tackle: NE 24 (J.Wilhite) Tackle Assist: NE 31 (B.Meriweather)

 

2-15-BUF 36 (13:50) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 83-L.Evans to BUF 48 for 12 yards (24-J.Wilhite).

Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 12 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 10 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 83 (L.Evans), 12 yards Pass Target: BUF 83 (L.Evans) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 83 (L.Evans), 2 yards Solo Tackle: NE 24

(J.Wilhite)

 

3-1-BUF 45 (4:53) (No Huddle) 5-T.Edwards pass short middle to 81-T.Owens pushed ob at NE 28 for 27 yards (29-S.Springs). BUF 81-Owens

184th consecutive game with a reception. BUF 81-Owens 952 career receptions, 6th best all-time.

1st Down Passing: BUF 3rd Down Attempt Converted: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 27 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 6 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 81 (T.Owens), 27 yards Pass Target: BUF 81 (T.Owens) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 81 (T.Owens), 21 yards Solo Tackle: NE 29 (S.Springs)

 

3-20-NE 38 (3:19) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 80-D.Schouman to NE 22 for 16 yards (31-B.Meriweather, 30-B.McGowan).

3rd Down Attempt Failed: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 16 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 7 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 80 (D.Schouman), 16 yards Pass Target: BUF 80 (D.Schouman) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 80 (D.Schouman), 9 yards Assisted Tackle: NE 31 (B.Meriweather) Tackle Assist: NE 30 (B.McGowan)

 

3-15-BUF 33 (10:29) 5-T.Edwards pass short right to 22-F.Jackson pushed ob at NE 49 for 18 yards (36-J.Sanders).

1st Down Passing: BUF 3rd Down Attempt Converted: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 18 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), -3 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 18 yards Pass Target: BUF 22 (F.Jackson) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 21 yards Solo Tackle: NE 36 (J.Sanders)

 

2-10-NE 10 (5:38) 5-T.Edwards pass short left to 22-F.Jackson for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

1st Down Passing: BUF Passing Yards, TD: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 10 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), -6 yards

Pass Reception Yards, TD: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 10 yards Pass Target: BUF 22 (F.Jackson) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 16 yards

 

1-10-BUF 21 (:45) (Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass deep middle to 81-T.Owens to BUF 40 for 19 yards (31-B.Meriweather, 24-J.Wilhite).

1st Down Passing: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 19 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 19 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 81 (T.Owens), 19 yards Pass Target: BUF 81 (T.Owens) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 81 (T.Owens), 0 yards Assisted Tackle: NE 31 (B.Meriweather) Tackle Assist: NE 24 (J.Wilhite)

 

4-20-BUF 30 (:01) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-T.Edwards pass deep right to 80-D.Schouman to NE 47 for 23 yards. Lateral to 11-R.Parrish to NE 43 for 4 yards. Lateral to 22-F.Jackson to NE 34 for 9 yards. FUMBLES, recovered by BUF-11-R.Parrish at NE 40. 11-R.Parrish to NE 44 for -4 yards (23-L.Bodden).

1st Down Passing: BUF 4th Down Attempt Converted: BUF Passing Yards: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 30 yards Pass Length, Completion: BUF 5 (T.Edwards), 18 yards

Pass Reception Yards: BUF 80 (D.Schouman), 23 yards Pass Target: BUF 80 (D.Schouman) Yardage Gained After the Catch: BUF 80 (D.Schouman), 5 yards Pass Reception Yards, No Reception: BUF 11 (R.Parrish), 4 yards Pass Reception Yards, No Reception: BUF 22 (F.Jackson), 3 yards Fumble - Not Forced: BUF 22 (F.Jackson) Own Recovery Yards: BUF 11

(R.Parrish), -4 yards Solo Tackle: NE 23 (L.Bodden)

-----------------------------------------------

 

I believe Edwards played the best game against the Patriots by a Bills QB since the 2003 opener, and it's great to see the YAC stats, but this list emphatically does not support the theory that Edwards looked downfield -- indeed, he didn't complete a pass more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage until the desperate last-minute drive.

Nice to have the numbers but this was pretty obvious to anyone watching the game. The Pats apparently didn't think much of our line or, w/out Lynch, our running game so they focused on the only threats that worried them, TO and Lee. That played right to Trent's strengths as he doesn't get the ball to the WRs even when they aren't double teamed. Maybe he will this year but his record so far demonstrates a clear reluctance to go down filed. Giving him the short stuff took pressure off our young line and took advantage of Trent's uncanny ability to hit people in stride on the shorter routes. I don't know why the Pats didn't defend us the way everyone else does, which is to load up on the run and the short stuff, forcing Trent to go downfiled which means the line has to hold pass pro for an extra click or two. I guess they didn't think much of Freddie and our TE's.

[Boolay]

Umm yes actually he did HANDILY out-play Tom Brady. If you extrapolate Trent's numbers across the same number of plays, the comparison would look like this:

 

Trent: 32/53 (15/25 = 60% | 32/53 = 60%) 450 yards (8.5 ypa x 53 attempts); 4 TDs (53 attempts / 12.5 attempts per TD); 0 ints

Brady: 39/53 378 yards; 2 TDs; 1 int

 

This extrapolation was based on the individual passing statistics listed on espn:

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=290914017

 

Surely you would recognize that the quarterback with substantially more attempts would have more yardage and TD opportunities. So if you apply Trents actual numbers across the same numbers of attempts, you can make a very reasonable argument that Trents actual numbers were FAR more impressive than Tom Brady. So yea, the rating was in this case a very accurate indicator of performance for those two QBs. But thanks for playing.

 

Also, if you think Trent wasn't looking down field enough, we can observe the comparison between yards per *completion*:

 

Trent: 212 yards/15 completions = 14.1 yards per completion (which is effing RIGHTEOUS)

Brady: 378 yards /39 completions = 9.7 yards per completion (good but not Trent Edwards good)

 

So clearly, he was getting more plays down field for more yards per capita than Tom Brady. If we didn't have at least 3 balls dropped that should have been caught, even *if* they weren't exactly perfect, the difference between Edwards and Brady would be even more profound.

 

This post was originally posted in response on like the fourth page of a thread started by another forum member, but I found it so intriguing after I did the calculations that I thought you would all appreciate a new thread for it.

I guess you are a Stanford guy. Bills fans are bottom line. We Lost. And it'll get worse if Trent can't throw more than 10 yards down field.

[Mr. WEO]

Umm yes actually he did HANDILY out-play Tom Brady. If you extrapolate Trent's numbers across the same number of plays, the comparison would look like this:

 

Trent: 32/53 (15/25 = 60% | 32/53 = 60%) 450 yards (8.5 ypa x 53 attempts); 4 TDs (53 attempts / 12.5 attempts per TD); 0 ints

Brady: 39/53 378 yards; 2 TDs; 1 int

 

 

 

This post was originally posted in response on like the fourth page of a thread started by another forum member, but I found it so intriguing after I did the calculations that I thought you would all appreciate a new thread for it.

 

Oh yes, we appreciate it---this is pure comedy gold!!

 

But seriously, this has to be the least sophisticated misuse of statistics ever attempted on this site---and that's quite an achievement.

 

. I only brought up statistics because that is the only meaningful argument that has been made in Tom Brady's favor, and since you people on this forum are clearly incapable of recognizing the fallacy in that argument for yourselves, I needed to put it in a mathematical format you can understand.

 

Yes, his "stats" are a fallacy that only you can understand.

 

But for the sheer lack of self awareness and overwhelming irony--this is the best part:

 

 

 

This is done all the time in science. I can't help it if the usage of remedial mathematical tools is beyond your comprehension. But you guys are the ones who like to use Brady's stat line as the basis of your argument. I simply took the ball and ran with it.

 

The "usage" of remedial mathematical tools!! Run with it man!

 

 

Alphadawg, the majority of the posters on this forum lack even the most basic understanding of the game. I clearly do not. Nobody is making any legitimate arguments against me - Lori made a good solid argument but that was based on the fact that she misunderstood my somewhat ambiguous point, which I have since cleared up for her and I am confident that she will agree with my assessment.

Well, not that you have realized, anyway.

 

Alphadawg I am your master. You can bow down and worship any time. I am 27 years old and everyone on this board can see as plain as day that my knowledge and understanding of football and everything else is far deeper than your own.

 

This HAS to be a goof. Someone is playing us---no way anyone would be so boldly (or cluelessly) moronic.

 

Keep it coming, Goob!

[AnthonyF]

The Yards After Catch post has been used many times in assessing Trent's play. People have used the argument that he throws too many passes behind the line of scrimmage and it is not his throws that are successful, but the play calling and the gain after the catch.

 

Point is, this too often is the case with TE. Until the last drive he was at 169 yards and as a football fan, I can not be excited by a qb or offensive scheme that constantly throws for under 200 yards on average.

 

He completed a nice 19 yarder to Owens, they had the ball at their 40 with 37 seconds to go and a timeout and imploded, with TE looking lost and getting sacked twice. The last 23 yard play meant nothing.

[timba]

The difference between this games short yardage passing and most of last years is a lot of these plays the running back was the primary target. Screen plays folks! Something we haven't seen effectively in a while!

 

SouthernGeorgia - You REALLY think highly of yourself, but it's leading to you talking down to people... and you really shouldn't.

[bizell]

That is not what I said. Why don't you quote my post where I said that? I said his short throwing was resulting in consistently more yardage with a much higher efficiency vs throwing down field into lower percentage plays for less average yardage with a greater chance of interception, and thus he was correctly recognizing and reading the defense. Again, your reading comprehension is suspect and thus your point invalid. My extrapolation is was right on, your attempts to ridicule instead of provide lucid evidence to your point, while invoking the troll in me, has failed to produce any meaningful contradiction to my argument. And that my friend, is lack of cognitive capacity.

 

Case in point: Lori provided meaning and lucid evidence supporting her position, and thus while I disagree and think she misunderstood my original point anyway, she was treated with respect. Unfortunately Alphadawg gets trolled because he is a troll who just repeats the same remedial BS over and over no matter how much evidence you provide to the contrary. Once in a while he makes a valid point and gets a valid response, but just as soon as I get done thinking "wait that was Alphadawg?" he posts some ridiculous BS that just begs for abuse.

 

I understand how badly you want to prove me wrong, me being one of the biggest 455holes on this forum, and if I wasn't at least entertained at how you continue to try and make a bad argument good using progressively worse arguments and logic simply for the sake of being obstinate and incapable of saying "you know, that is a good point," I wouldn't bother to respond at all..

You don't really have a leg to stand on. In your initial post, you clearly said Trent is getting the ball downfield for more yardage PER CAPITA (Interesting choice of words). Lori blew that theory all to hell. And then, a major basis of your argument is based on EXTRAPOLATION. Well, Ramius beat me to the punch when he showed the idiocy of basing an argument off of 'what if' by showing how Brian Moorman totally PWNZORED Drew Brees last year passing. My comparison of Fred Jackson PWNING Randy Moss wasn't needed. However, please, by all means, continue your chest-thumping crusade to announce your superior football intellect and grandoise vocabulary to everyone.