WHOA Trent PWNED Brady - check it out

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

I see you chose to ignore the fact that Brady and Trent had equal number of chances with ball essentiall and Brady did a LOT more with it than Trent...but keep trying kid, I am sure you will convince at least one person. Funny, on every thread you are being called out by almost every poster responding to your posts...so it seems you are legend in your own mind and highly doubt you are 27.

 

Alphadawg, the majority of the posters on this forum lack even the most basic understanding of the game. I clearly do not. Nobody is making any legitimate arguments against me - Lori made a good solid argument but that was based on the fact that she misunderstood my somewhat ambiguous point, which I have since cleared up for her and I am confident that she will agree with my assessment.

[bizell]

Why is it that you people just want to hate someone? Trent Edwards, the Bills coaches, anyone else you can possibly blame when a team that you have absolutely no bearing or influence upon doesn't perform the way you think they should? To do such is indicative of the kind of spineless, thoughtless, whining brain spasms that you are.

 

Why is it impossible for you to give credit where it is do? Would you rather be correct in your absurd assessments that clearly lack understanding of the dynamics of the game, or would you rather have a good football team?

 

I vote for good football team, and for the first time in a while, I am more than convinced we have a very good one.

The only one hating here is you when anyone disagrees with your assessment that Trent Edwards is the best quarterback in the NFL.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

As he continues to check down, teams with better secondaries than New England's -- which gave up the second-most touchdown passes in the league last year, costing all four top CBs their roster spots during the offseason -- will start to play more press coverage on the Bills WRs. Let's hope Evans and Owens can take advantage of that with some double moves; otherwise, this offense will begin to resemble last year's ... and nobody here wants that.

 

Exactly Lori. That is the point. You throw underneath while they give it to you and force them to man up or zone against Lee and TO, and THAT is when you look down field. You don't look down field first. You attack where the weakness is, and any time Lee or TO is in single coverage, that will usually be the weakness of that defensive play. I was utterly surprised that Bill Belichick never made that change. He decided he would make Trent beat him by consistently taking what was given underneath and Trent proved that he would. Next time, Belichick will come out of that double coverage crap and then if Trent doesn't go down field you will have a legitimate argument. But as long as he completes 60% of his attempts for 14+ yards per completion, it simply makes no sense whatsoever to take the riskier, lower percentage throws down field.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

The only one hating here is you when anyone disagrees with your assessment that Trent Edwards is the best quarterback in the NFL.

 

Ahem. Your reading comprehension is clearly suspect, and thus your points are invalid. My assessment was that Trent Edwards was the better QB last night between him and Tom Brady, and nobody has provided a single lucid argument otherwise.

 

Oh yea and I hate flagrant stupidity. I don't mind modest stupidity as I don't blame people for whatever intellectual level they were born to. However when you post it for the world to see and try to pretend that you have a clue what you are saying, then yea, you get the wrath.

[Alphadawg7]

As he continues to check down, teams with better secondaries than New England's -- which gave up the second-most touchdown passes in the league last year, costing all four top CBs their roster spots during the offseason -- will start to play more press coverage on the Bills WRs. Let's hope Evans and Owens can take advantage of that with some double moves; otherwise, this offense will begin to resemble last year's ... and nobody here wants that.

 

Very true. A;so, If we dont find a way to make our WR's dangerous underneath then they will never find any day light down field. Right now it is WAY too easy to take them out of the game. Part of the reason to me seems Trent still isnt seeing the Defense well enough yet. Let me explain...

 

Look at Bradys pass to Watson (the first one). Brady literally fires the ball while Watson is blanketed to a spot in the endzone where he anticiaptes Watson will be open. Trent rarely does this because he doesnt see the D well enough yet. In fact, that dropped pass to Evans should have been thrown way sooner as Lee was about to make his break, but instead Trent thows the pass once he has made his break and is open. The result is he is no longer as open and gets lit up as he makes the catch which leads to the ball be jarred lose for a drop.

 

Thats the difference between the greats and the game managers. Game manages need to make the safe throws because they dont see the field well enough to exploit the holes in the D. I only hope Trent grows here under AVP in this area or he will have a hard time developing to anything more than another Kelly Holcomb.

[thebug]

Serious question Bug...do you actually think that having your RB lead the team in targeted passes (7) and receiving is a sound approach to moving the chains?

 

You guys act like this was a first time occurence...this is the same thing we did all of last year and how did that work out for us? If this was such a great approach to the offense we wouldnt have gone out and got TO because we mastered the dink and dunk last year.

 

So, agree or not, using your two most DANGEROUS offensive weapons as deep decoys so you can throw to a RB is not going to win you many games, therefore its fundamentally flawed if that is the game plan. Its one thing to take what the D is giving you, but its another to NOT make any adjustments to get the ball into your two best players hands by running shorter quicker routes and getting the ball to them before the double comes.

 

I mean thats literally football 101...

 

 

No I don't, but that game plan, in that game had them in a position to beat the Pats* on the road. Will it work all year? not a chance, but they took what the Pats* were giving them, while helping Edwards gain some much needed confidence.

 

For the Bills to be successful, we need our best players to be our best players and Lee and TO are our best.

 

I don't think that was as much of a "dink and dunk" system as last year, i think they finally started using the screen pass to our advantage and it worked, so they went back to it.

[Alphadawg7]

The only one hating here is you when anyone disagrees with your assessment that Trent Edwards is the best quarterback in the NFL.

 

^^^What he said^^^

[Ramius]

WHOA Brian Moorman PWNED Drew Brees last season. To compare apples to apples, i extrapolated Moorman's stats so they are equal to Brees and here's what you get.

 

2008 Drew Brees:

Brees - 413/635, 5,069 yards, 34 TD, 17 INT

 

While this may be good, he's nowhere near the QB that moorman is, especailly when you extrapolate the stats.

 

2008 Brian Moorman:

635/635, 12,065 yards, 635 TDs, 0 INTs

[Alphadawg7]

No I don't, but that game plan, in that game had them in a position to beat the Pats* on the road. Will it work all year? not a chance, but they took what the Pats* were giving them, while helping Edwards gain some much needed confidence.

 

For the Bills to be successful, we need our best players to be our best players and Lee and TO are our best.

 

I don't think that was as much of a "dink and dunk" system as last year, i think they finally started using the screen pass to our advantage and it worked, so they went back to it.

 

I totally agree with you here. The dink and dunk was by design last night which is why it worked better because on those short dumps to the RB he had blockers out in front of him as opposed to the games last year where he dumped off to a RB as a last resort.

 

My issue from last night was more with AVP not making any adjustments to get our WR's involved. If that continues to happen we are going to have a hard time winning with our schedule.

 

All in all though, very good game for a team with so much last minute transition and a O line where 60% of the them never played an NFL snap.

[bizell]

Ahem. Your reading comprehension is clearly suspect, and thus your points are invalid. My assessment was that Trent Edwards was the better QB last night between him and Tom Brady, and nobody has provided a single lucid argument otherwise.

 

Oh yea and I hate flagrant stupidity. I don't mind modest stupidity as I don't blame people for whatever intellectual level they were born to. However when you post it for the world to see and try to pretend that you have a clue what you are saying, then yea, you get the wrath.

 

Well, this argument is inherently borderline retarded, as we're making a comparison based on an estimation/extrapolation. If you extrapolate Fred Jackson's catches out to Randy Moss's, then he totally PWNZORED Randy Moss, too.

 

edit: damn, ramius beat me to a ridiculous extrapolation

[Alphadawg7]

WHOA Brian Moorman PWNED Drew Brees last season. To compare apples to apples, i extrapolated Moorman's stats so they are equal to Brees and here's what you get.

 

2008 Drew Brees:

Brees - 413/635, 5,069 yards, 34 TD, 17 INT

 

While this may be good, he's nowhere near the QB that moorman is, especailly when you extrapolate the stats.

 

2008 Brian Moorman:

635/635, 12,065 yards, 635 TDs, 0 INTs

 

[rpcolosi]

First I thought Trent played great.

 

However looking at his yards is misleading. He gained 35 yards on the final two plays and 83 yards came on screen plays to Fred Jackson. That is not throwing it downfield.

 

He did have a very nice 21 yrd gain to Mr. Third Down Josh Reed(LOL) called back by penalty

 

 

newsflash - screen plays are BIG plays when run right. you dont need to throw it 40 yards for a 40 yard gain. i know its shocking.

[bizell]

newsflash - screen plays are BIG plays when run right. you dont need to throw it 40 yards for a 40 yard gain. i know its shocking.

 

no one said otherwise. the main discussion(argument) is that SouthGeorgiafan was saying that Trent was chucking the ball downfield for big yardage.. and people were saying otherwise. Then we were all morons for not realizing how brilliant both SouthGeorgia and Trent Edwards are/were.

[rstencel]

Alphadawg, the majority of the posters on this forum lack even the most basic understanding of the game. I clearly do not. Nobody is making any legitimate arguments against me - Lori made a good solid argument but that was based on the fact that she misunderstood my somewhat ambiguous point, which I have since cleared up for her and I am confident that she will agree with my assessment.

 

 

Is your other login Skooby?

[Alphadawg7]

Is your other login Skooby?

 

that would make sense...but atleast he got Dog14787 to buy into his mumbo jumbo

[rstencel]

Umm yes actually he did HANDILY out-play Tom Brady. If you extrapolate Trent's numbers across the same number of plays, the comparison would look like this:

 

Trent: 32/53 (15/25 = 60% | 32/53 = 60%) 450 yards (8.5 ypa x 53 attempts); 4 TDs (53 attempts / 12.5 attempts per TD); 0 ints

Brady: 39/53 378 yards; 2 TDs; 1 int

 

This extrapolation was based on the individual passing statistics listed on espn:

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=290914017

 

Surely you would recognize that the quarterback with substantially more attempts would have more yardage and TD opportunities. So if you apply Trents actual numbers across the same numbers of attempts, you can make a very reasonable argument that Trents actual numbers were FAR more impressive than Tom Brady. So yea, the rating was in this case a very accurate indicator of performance for those two QBs. But thanks for playing.

 

Also, if you think Trent wasn't looking down field enough, we can observe the comparison between yards per *completion*:

 

Trent: 212 yards/15 completions = 14.1 yards per completion (which is effing RIGHTEOUS)

Brady: 378 yards /39 completions = 9.7 yards per completion (good but not Trent Edwards good)

 

So clearly, he was getting more plays down field for more yards per capita than Tom Brady. If we didn't have at least 3 balls dropped that should have been caught, even *if* they weren't exactly perfect, the difference between Edwards and Brady would be even more profound.

 

This post was originally posted in response on like the fourth page of a thread started by another forum member, but I found it so intriguing after I did the calculations that I thought you would all appreciate a new thread for it.

for starters, was just kidding about the Skooby thing

 

Trent did play pretty well.

 

However, like several have pointed out, quite a few of these yards were gained on screens, which is more product of line selling it, and getting out front, and the nice runs after the catch to get those yards. He did make some decent throws on other plays as well. The drop by TO was a good throw, and so was the first play of last drive to TO as well.

 

His play after that throw to TO on the last drive would be why I do not agree that he pawed Brady however. He seem confused and didn't step up when the game was on the line, which would expect from the pawning QB. Admittedly the play calls and line had allot to do with that, they should have run some check down routes for him to get it out quicker, or gave him another screen to slow down the rush.

 

Also the fact that both teams basically had same yards per play stat, but Patriots had almost 2x the yardage.

 

AVP did a good job most of the game giving him allot of easy throws and plays to get his confidence up, and he did play very well most of the game, but do not think he pawned at all.

[Guest dog14787]

Exactly Lori. That is the point. You throw underneath while they give it to you and force them to man up or zone against Lee and TO, and THAT is when you look down field. You don't look down field first. You attack where the weakness is, and any time Lee or TO is in single coverage, that will usually be the weakness of that defensive play. I was utterly surprised that Bill Belichick never made that change. He decided he would make Trent beat him by consistently taking what was given underneath and Trent proved that he would. Next time, Belichick will come out of that double coverage crap and then if Trent doesn't go down field you will have a legitimate argument. But as long as he completes 60% of his attempts for 14+ yards per completion, it simply makes no sense whatsoever to take the riskier, lower percentage throws down field.

 

 

That's the way I see it.

 

A smart OC and QB takes what the defense gives you. Montana made a living that way and when opposing defenses got tired of him methodically picking them apart and tried to press, wham, he hits you long.

 

In this instance slow and methodical was good and helped make up for the lack of ball control and lopsided time of possession. We preached all preseason long about going long, we just have to go long and Belicheat was fooled.

 

It was by design and we have AVP to thank for it. I've seen enough in one game to satisfy me we are finally headed in the right direction.

[rstencel]

newsflash - screen plays are BIG plays when run right. you dont need to throw it 40 yards for a 40 yard gain. i know its shocking.

 

Running screen isn't easy either, but its the line that sells a screen as much as QB, and the line getting out front is what allows screens to consistently work. Don't think fact our line played well and Jackson made good runs makes TE a pawner. It does bode well for team in future however. If they can keep having success with the screen game, its going to help slow down opponents rush, and make whole offense better.

 

Hope that success was due to how well the Bills ran it, and not because the Patriots didn't expect or plan for it. Last few years they couldn't run a screen well at all, so doubt the Pats spent much time on defending it. It may have been a bit of both, but seeing those young linemen running out front was inspiring, and due to that, it sure looks like is going to be tough for anyone to defend to me

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

no one said otherwise. the main discussion(argument) is that SouthGeorgiafan was saying that Trent was chucking the ball downfield for big yardage.. and people were saying otherwise. Then we were all morons for not realizing how brilliant both SouthGeorgia and Trent Edwards are/were.

 

 

That is not what I said. Why don't you quote my post where I said that? I said his short throwing was resulting in consistently more yardage with a much higher efficiency vs throwing down field into lower percentage plays for less average yardage with a greater chance of interception, and thus he was correctly recognizing and reading the defense. Again, your reading comprehension is suspect and thus your point invalid. My extrapolation is was right on, your attempts to ridicule instead of provide lucid evidence to your point, while invoking the troll in me, has failed to produce any meaningful contradiction to my argument. And that my friend, is lack of cognitive capacity.

 

Case in point: Lori provided meaning and lucid evidence supporting her position, and thus while I disagree and think she misunderstood my original point anyway, she was treated with respect. Unfortunately Alphadawg gets trolled because he is a troll who just repeats the same remedial BS over and over no matter how much evidence you provide to the contrary. Once in a while he makes a valid point and gets a valid response, but just as soon as I get done thinking "wait that was Alphadawg?" he posts some ridiculous BS that just begs for abuse.

 

I understand how badly you want to prove me wrong, me being one of the biggest 455holes on this forum, and if I wasn't at least entertained at how you continue to try and make a bad argument good using progressively worse arguments and logic simply for the sake of being obstinate and incapable of saying "you know, that is a good point," I wouldn't bother to respond at all..

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

That's the way I see it.

 

A smart OC and QB takes what the defense gives you. Montana made a living that way and when opposing defenses got tired of him methodically picking them apart and tried to press, wham, he hits you long.

 

In this instance slow and methodical was good and helped make up for the lack of ball control and lopsided time of possession. We preached all preseason long about going long, we just have to go long and Belicheat was fooled.

 

It was by design and we have AVP to thank for it. I've seen enough in one game to satisfy me we are finally headed in the right direction.

 

Dog never gets trolled by me. Well maybe once. Or twice. But usually not =p. Amen dude.

 

I also don't understand how people who make the argument that Trent wasn't as impressive because his throws were short failed to realize that Tom Brady was doing the same thing. The difference was that Moss and Welker still exposed our defense the same way we exposed theirs. The mismatch in their case, due to our different base defense, rather than being backs lined up against linebackers, was single coverage in our underneath zones against Moss and Welker. The philosophy was the same in that neither team was going to give up anything deep, but both new they would be vulnerable underneath and willing to make the opposing QB exploit that. Both did so effectively. Trent was more effective because he had the same amount of TDs (we all know that one of Brady's TDs should have never happened anyway...it did I know but still, a fluke is a fluke), fewer interceptions, and more yardage per attempt and yardage per completion. And the 3 screens that we ran were effective because a) Trent was effectively forcing the Pats to Blitz and try to pressure him by consistently tearing them up on short yardage passes to mismatched receivers, and b) Trent correctly recognized the blitz at the line and called the correct play (you realize of course that Trent probably has as least three options to choose from on any given play that can be called at the line based on the front he sees and run out of whatever formation in which they are lined up - I believe the whole reason DJ wanted a simpler offense was so that Trent would have even more plays to choose from on any given down to be called at the line out of each formation).