Moss & Welker had 12 catches EACH

[Captain Caveman]

Lets be real here...we were ahead because Schobel prematurely ended a Pats drive by intercepting the ball and scoring a TD and the Pats also missed a FG. Its not like we controlled the game from an offensive point of view. In fact, that Schobel play could have very well been a 10 or 14 point turnaround if the Pats would have scored on that drive.

 

So using the score to justify the offensive play is not really fair. We didnt sustain many drives. I know we had a couple dropped passes for first downs, but other than those throws there werent many other ones thrown long enough to be first downs. A lot of the passes were short of the first down marker by a lot and require a run after the catch to get it. Playing like that will not have us up 11 late in the game, it will more often have us down 11 late in the game...

 

Bottom line, we need to find a way to get the ball down field or our offense will be average at best and we will struggle to win all year.

 

 

Our biggest drive-killers were penalites, mostly on the O-line. Since we're being "real" here, do you think asking them to hold their blocks for an extra couple of seconds would have helped? Capitalizing on what the defense is giving you is smart football. Forcing the ball into double coverage downfield with no blocking is Rob Johnson football.

 

I know he doesn't get much love here, but Peter King mentions AVP as the best offensive coordinator this week. I think that may be going a bit overboard, but I do think his game plan was just about perfect, considering what he had to work with, and what he was going against.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...mail/index.html

[Alphadawg7]

There were three dropped third down passes that would of resulted in first downs. One was a 20 yard strike to Evans up the middle, the other was to Fred Jackson and the other was on a slant to T.O, and that's not even including the penalty that negated the other 20 yard strike completed to Josh Reed. There were even more drops in the game, I remember another 15 yarder to Shawn Nelson and what about the drive killing penalties? The fact of the matter Alpha is that if they hadn't of dropped those passes, we would of scored more points. If it weren't for the dropped passes he would of easily have gone 20-25 with over 250 yards.

 

I do happen to believe though that we have to take more shots down the field, but he did throw the ball effectively on the 20 yard routes, we just happened to drop them or have penalties against us.

 

He played well.

 

I have already said on several threads Trent played well. I liked what I saw from him, but the fact remains, whether its the scheme or Trent, we need to get the WR's involved.

 

But lets be honest here on those dropped passes. The one to Lee was poorly thrown and he got Lee layed out which is why he dropped it. Lee didnt just flat out drop the ball, he got hammered because of where Trent put the ball.

 

T.O. dropped a pass that was thrown to the top of his head and almost behind him on a crossing route where if Trent puts it in front of him he would have gotten a big gain on that play. Freddie dropped a pass that was way out in front of him that he only almost caught because he reached out and tipped the ball back to him.

 

So before we go out and say these guys flat out dropped the ball, be honest and look at where he put that ball. I am not saying our guys shouldnt have caught the ball, but Trent made those plays a LOT harder than they had to be. And those plays were on the wrong side of the 50 yard line, so how do you justify saying we score more points if we make those catches?

 

Also, most of those drops were all SHORT of the first down marker and required our guy to make a run after the catch once again (if they would have made the catch). And that is my issue...we wont score many points in this league if we dont get the WR's involved.

[Alphadawg7]

Our biggest drive-killers were penalites, mostly on the O-line. Since we're being "real" here, do you think asking them to hold their blocks for an extra couple of seconds would have helped? Capitalizing on what the defense is giving you is smart football. Forcing the ball into double coverage downfield with no blocking is Rob Johnson football.

 

I know he doesn't get much love here, but Peter King mentions AVP as the best offensive coordinator this week. I think that may be going a bit overboard, but I do think his game plan was just about perfect, considering what he had to work with, and what he was going against.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...mail/index.html

 

I agree those penalties were terrible drive killers, but what I am saying is how long do you think it will take opposing D's to scheme to stop our short dump off throws? If you are not sure, then go back and review last year...

 

I was happy with our whole staff yesterday, I was happy with the O Line, and I was happy with Trent, so dont get me wrong here, I am not harping on the kid or AVP. But, the fact remains, if we can not get our WR's the ball and get the ball down field we will struggle. If we have to rely on our ST or D to contribute points we wont win many games.

 

We have one of the 5 best WR groups in football and our two starting WR's manage just 5 catches comined? We will be in trouble if our leading reciever each week is our RB...

[Magox]

I have already said on several threads Trent played well. I liked what I saw from him, but the fact remains, whether its the scheme or Trent, we need to get the WR's involved.

 

But lets be honest here on those dropped passes. The one to Lee was poorly thrown and he got Lee layed out which is why he dropped it. Lee didnt just flat out drop the ball, he got hammered because of where Trent put the ball.

 

T.O. dropped a pass that was thrown to the top of his head and almost behind him on a crossing route where if Trent puts it in front of him he would have gotten a big gain on that play. Freddie dropped a pass that was way out in front of him that he only almost caught because he reached out and tipped the ball back to him.

 

So before we go out and say these guys flat out dropped the ball, be honest and look at where he put that ball. I am not saying our guys shouldnt have caught the ball, but Trent made those plays a LOT harder than they had to be. And those plays were on the wrong side of the 50 yard line, so how do you justify saying we score more points if we make those catches?

 

Also, most of those drops were all SHORT of the first down marker and required our guy to make a run after the catch once again (if they would have made the catch). And that is my issue...we wont score many points in this league if we dont get the WR's involved.

What are you talking about? The pass to Evans and T.O were past the first down marker, the pass to Josh Reed was 20 yards down the field and the one to Jackson would of ended up being a first down because he had a clear path moving forward. The pass to Evans and T.O was perfect. The one to Evans was right in his gut, he did get walloped no doubt, but it was on point and he has to make that catch. The one to T.O was perfect, because there was a defender right on him and he had to throw it up a little higher, it wasn't a difficult pass to drop. The one to Jackson was 50/50, it was a bit high, but none the less it should of been caught.

 

But I do agree that we have to throw the ball further down field and get the WR's more involved, just that this game it seemed to me that the *Pats game plan was to nullify the WR's.

[Got_Wood]

Our biggest drive-killers were penalites, mostly on the O-line. Since we're being "real" here, do you think asking them to hold their blocks for an extra couple of seconds would have helped? Capitalizing on what the defense is giving you is smart football. Forcing the ball into double coverage downfield with no blocking is Rob Johnson football.

 

I know he doesn't get much love here, but Peter King mentions AVP as the best offensive coordinator this week. I think that may be going a bit overboard, but I do think his game plan was just about perfect, considering what he had to work with, and what he was going against.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...mail/index.html

 

I agree on the penalties. A couple on D. Bell were just terrible calls to begin with. The Patriots didn't have any calls against them on crucial 3rd down plays like we did. Illegal formation on our offensive tackle??? That kills me.

 

Peter King is a tool. He says what everyone else already knows. I wish I could sit on my couch every Sunday watching games and write about all of the highlights.

[DanInUticaTampa]

yeah, those passes to TO and Evans would have been first downs. And that catch by josh reed that got called back on a holding penalty, also a first down. I think a first down by a run by jackson might have been a 1st down had it not been called back. I think, i can't remember. I know a good run by jackson got called back though.

[timba]

Frankly, if teams are going to double cover Lee and TO every play that leaves room for the running game. Eventually they are going to have to put another in the box and when they do, we have receivers who can win 90% of the time in a 1v1.

 

Not gonna lie.... I'm excited for when Marshawn comes back. I would like to see some formations with Lee, TO, Marshawn, and Mr. Action Freddy Jackson on the field at the same time. It could make for matchup nightmares for opposing D's.

[Koufax]

I call BS on this. They keep saying that "they were double covered" each game we play. Guess what, so were Moss and Welker. But the Patriots got them the ball.

 

Evans is one of the fastest receivers in this game. He can get open if we put him in the right situations.

 

I'm tired of the excuses.

 

You are tired of the excuses but you are also off base in your evaluation.

 

I would have preferred getting the ball to TO and Lee more than we did, and that is something we are going to have to improve on, but do you think this has anything to do with what the defense did? Did you realize that our screen passes went berserk? That our rookie tight end caught a huge touchdown? Because those are better players than Lee and TO? No, but because New England decided to focus on Lee and TO and that opened up other things for us. I was a big Losman fan, but in a similar situation he would have thrown some deep incompletions and INTs, and taken some sacks by standing there and looking down field too much. I'm pretty happy with the 17 points our offense put up in this game and think it was enough to win. And I don't think other teams will be as effective stopping Lee and TO in the coming weeks, and with some confidence in the O-Line and our offense we will take more shots downfield.

[dave mcbride]

I have already said on several threads Trent played well. I liked what I saw from him, but the fact remains, whether its the scheme or Trent, we need to get the WR's involved.

 

But lets be honest here on those dropped passes. The one to Lee was poorly thrown and he got Lee layed out which is why he dropped it. Lee didnt just flat out drop the ball, he got hammered because of where Trent put the ball.

 

T.O. dropped a pass that was thrown to the top of his head and almost behind him on a crossing route where if Trent puts it in front of him he would have gotten a big gain on that play. Freddie dropped a pass that was way out in front of him that he only almost caught because he reached out and tipped the ball back to him.

 

So before we go out and say these guys flat out dropped the ball, be honest and look at where he put that ball. I am not saying our guys shouldnt have caught the ball, but Trent made those plays a LOT harder than they had to be. And those plays were on the wrong side of the 50 yard line, so how do you justify saying we score more points if we make those catches?

 

Also, most of those drops were all SHORT of the first down marker and required our guy to make a run after the catch once again (if they would have made the catch). And that is my issue...we wont score many points in this league if we dont get the WR's involved.

Um, the pass to Evans was perfectly placed. It's not even questionable. Are you confusing it with another play?

[MRW]

Um, the pass to Evans was perfectly placed. It's not even questionable. Are you confusing it with another play?

Maybe he's saying that he shouldn't have passed it to Evans if there was a risk of him getting hit by a defender?

[dave mcbride]

Maybe he's saying that he shouldn't have passed it to Evans if there was a risk of him getting hit by a defender?

That's part of being an NFL player - hits like that happen all the time, and lots of times guys hold onto the ball.

[MRW]

That's part of being an NFL player - hits like that happen all the time, and lots of times guys hold onto the ball.

Sorry, misplaced my sarcasm tags. I agree with you, a guy getting paid like Evans especially needs to make that catch.

[Magox]

Maybe he's saying that he shouldn't have passed it to Evans if there was a risk of him getting hit by a defender?

or maybe he's just wanting to rail on Edwards like just about every other post he decides to share with everyone.

 

hmmm I wonder which one?

[Clippers of Nfl]

Moss and Welker were not double covered the entire game. Edwards took advantage of the double coverage on Evans and TO by going to the TE's and screens to Jackson.

 

Also, Brady threw like 50 times, of course they're going to catch that many balls.

 

+1 right on the money

[Alphadawg7]

Um, the pass to Evans was perfectly placed. It's not even questionable. Are you confusing it with another play?

 

It was late...sorry, I should have clarified...

[Alphadawg7]

or maybe he's just wanting to rail on Edwards like just about every other post he decides to share with everyone.

 

hmmm I wonder which one?

 

Dude, dont be an idiot Magox...I have complimented Trent in every post on several threads today...

[CodeMonkey]

they had no business winning the game.

I'd say because they did in fact win the game, they did have business doing so.

I will agree with you in that the way the cheatriats offense played, particularly in the first half, we should have had them blown out by halftime. I'm not sure you will ever see Brady play that poorly again (unfortunately). But we didn't, and I'd put that blame on us.

 

Our offense moved the ball effectively and scored enough points to win.

While they did move the ball effectively a couple times, the first TD being a shining example, I think the time of possession tells a different story. And I also believe our offense scored 17 points. Not sure I'd generally classify that as "enough to win" most times against a team with an offense like the cheatriats.

 

Some stats:

		
		  Bills	  Cheatriats
Total Plays	 48		 77
Total Yards	 276		441
Passing		 186		368
Possession	  22:52	  37:08

[Alphadawg7]

What are you talking about? The pass to Evans and T.O were past the first down marker, the pass to Josh Reed was 20 yards down the field and the one to Jackson would of ended up being a first down because he had a clear path moving forward. The pass to Evans and T.O was perfect. The one to Evans was right in his gut, he did get walloped no doubt, but it was on point and he has to make that catch. The one to T.O was perfect, because there was a defender right on him and he had to throw it up a little higher, it wasn't a difficult pass to drop. The one to Jackson was 50/50, it was a bit high, but none the less it should of been caught.

 

But I do agree that we have to throw the ball further down field and get the WR's more involved, just that this game it seemed to me that the *Pats game plan was to nullify the WR's.

 

The pass to T.O. was not perfect, they even just showed it on NFL live and said it wasnt a great throw. Still, T.O. needs to catch the ball, but T.O. literally had to jump a foot in the air to catch it as it was above his head...I just watched it again. The defender was behind him, not right on him.

 

None of that matters though as my only point was that we need to get the ball down field to our WR's or we will often be in a tight game or behind. I never even blamed Trent, all I said was that our WR's need to get in the game and Trent and the staff have to figure out how.

 

But like I have said several times today, Trent was looked better yesterday, especially with his confidence and poise. He still needs to figure out how to spread the ball around and get the WR's involved, but this was a good start that he and the offense can hopefully build on.

[deep2evans]

so what if Welker and Moss had big numbers. They had no touchdowns and they had no business winning the game. Our offense moved the ball effectively and scored enough points to win.

 

Football isn't fantasy football.

 

This.

[Magox]

The pass to T.O. was not perfect, they even just showed it on NFL live and said it wasnt a great throw. Still, T.O. needs to catch the ball, but T.O. literally had to jump a foot in the air to catch it as it was above his head...I just watched it again. The defender was behind him, not right on him.

 

None of that matters though as my only point was that we need to get the ball down field to our WR's or we will often be in a tight game or behind. I never even blamed Trent, all I said was that our WR's need to get in the game and Trent and the staff have to figure out how.

 

But like I have said several times today, Trent was looked better yesterday, especially with his confidence and poise. He still needs to figure out how to spread the ball around and get the WR's involved, but this was a good start that he and the offense can hopefully build on.

We definitely have to throw the ball downfield if we want to have success this year. I was encouraged that he threw several 20 yard passes in the game and was on target, but the big question mark is what will happen to our offense if the defense doesn't give us the short game and not double cover our WR's? Will we be able to get enough protection for 5 and 7 step drops and will Trent be able to make the throws?