Steely Dan Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Antonio CromartieNnamdi Asomugha Champ Bailey Asante Samuel Cortland Finnegan Nate Clements isn't on that list. I could argue there are others that would go above Clements too, or are at least on the same level (Dunta Robinson, Al Harris, Marcus Trufant, Terrence Newman, DeAngelo Hall, Darrelle Revis, Shawn Springs (when healthy)). I'm not sure how anyone can confuse Nate Clements with "one of the best corners on the planet." What he said. The 80 million in cap space would have been better used on more players. JMO
BillsVet Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Amazing what a pass rush can do, right? Justin Smith and company pressured Warner frequently and the secondary benefited. DJ and company chose to build their secondary first, jettisoned NC, and watched their ranking against the pass fall to the bottom third of the NFL. NC is still a solid cover corned who plays the run quite well. That Buffalo did not have a long term plan for him before franchising him in 06 was a travesty.
BillsVet Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 What he said. The 80 million in cap space would have been better used on more players. JMO For the 1,000th time: NC's deal is essentially 7 years and 64M. The final year is basically just paper and will not be realized. The Bills have been trying to replace him since they drafted Youboty. I think McKelvin will be excellent, but they would not have had to take another first round CB if they'd extended NC in early 2006. So many fans insisted that having Dockery and Walker was better than having NC. Those people are not so vocal in making this comparison anymore. At least NC is still with the team that he signed with.
K-9 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Clements played a great game He did. But as BillsVet pointed out above, SF really brought the pressure and that really helped the SF secondary. Warner's timing was messed up all afternoon. Wish we could do that. GO BILLS!!!
The Dean Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Nate is a very good CB (not top 5, IMO). Winfield is still a better all-around CB than Nate.
K-9 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 For the 1,000th time: NC's deal is essentially 7 years and 64M. The final year is basically just paper and will not be realized. The Bills have been trying to replace him since they drafted Youboty. I think McKelvin will be excellent, but they would not have had to take another first round CB if they'd extended NC in early 2006. So many fans insisted that having Dockery and Walker was better than having NC. Those people are not so vocal in making this comparison anymore. At least NC is still with the team that he signed with. Agree with all that but still, nobody can point to bad CB play as a weakness on this team. It's pretty much played at the same level as when we had NC. Where's the pass rush? GO BILLS!!!
manbeast Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Antonio CromartieNnamdi Asomugha Champ Bailey Asante Samuel Cortland Finnegan Nate Clements isn't on that list. I could argue there are others that would go above Clements too, or are at least on the same level (Dunta Robinson, Al Harris, Marcus Trufant, Terrence Newman, DeAngelo Hall, Darrelle Revis, Shawn Springs (when healthy)). I'm not sure how anyone can confuse Nate Clements with "one of the best corners on the planet." How many Ints do they have
PromoTheRobot Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Singletary will hold every player accountable and will be a great HC IMO. San Fran proves that a great coaching makes all the difference. I really believe the bills have the talent to be a playoff team now. They need someone to actuallyget them to play to their ability. I think Dick Jauron thinks he's running a T-ball league where no one strikes out and everyone gets a trophy that says "I'm the best me there is." PTR
Mr. WEO Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 And Cromartie and Finnegan shouldn't be.I'd probably put Nate alongside Samuel, just behind Bailey and Asomuhga It's easy; just watch him play. We did, for years. He was never at that level and no reason for this to have changed as he gets older. So much money--for Nate Clemens. What a country!
Simon Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 We did, for years. He was never at that level I guess we just see the field a little differently then. And I could care less about money.
No QB - No Bueno Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Didn't see Nate today, but in his first year in the Bay, he was excellent. I watched the Vikings/Browns today and let me say that Antoine Winfield was a complete stud. Stronger in run support than any defender currently on the Bills and mostly avoided in coverage. Watching him and Phat Pat hold down the fort for the vikings was a pleasure (the other Williams was pretty good too).
Billadelphia Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 We did, for years. He was never at that level and no reason for this to have changed as he gets older. So much money--for Nate Clemens. What a country! I agree WEO. Nate plays fast. Unfortunately, his mind isnt as fast as his body. Tremendous athlete, but too many mental mistakes. I'd love him on our team, but not for the money that most think he's worth.
Big Turk Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 He's looking like a total stud right now against the Cardinals. First good game since leaving Buffalo? Bottom line is that Clements isn't and wasn't worth anything close to the contract he got...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Amazing what a pass rush can do, right? Justin Smith and company pressured Warner frequently and the secondary benefited. DJ and company chose to build their secondary first, jettisoned NC, and watched their ranking against the pass fall to the bottom third of the NFL. NC is still a solid cover corned who plays the run quite well. That Buffalo did not have a long term plan for him before franchising him in 06 was a travesty. Um, the Bills finished 13th in pass defense while the Niners finished 20th. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go I apologize for the facts.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 For the 1,000th time: NC's deal is essentially 7 years and 64M. The final year is basically just paper and will not be realized. The Bills have been trying to replace him since they drafted Youboty. I think McKelvin will be excellent, but they would not have had to take another first round CB if they'd extended NC in early 2006. So many fans insisted that having Dockery and Walker was better than having NC. Those people are not so vocal in making this comparison anymore. At least NC is still with the team that he signed with. I would still 10 times out of 10 play a good olineman over a corner. Dockery became a vag. It happens. And for all your Nate love, you realize that the Bills had a better pass defense than the Niners right? NC is a good palyer but not worth the $ he is getting and we are teh same team with or without him.
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 He's looking like a total stud right now against the Cardinals. A total stud wouldn't give up that easy TD to Fitzgerald. 4 tackles and 1 INT (that was thrown right to him)...I would say he looked like an average CB.
Leonidas Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 For the 1,000th time: NC's deal is essentially 7 years and 64M. The final year is basically just paper and will not be realized. The Bills have been trying to replace him since they drafted Youboty. I think McKelvin will be excellent, but they would not have had to take another first round CB if they'd extended NC in early 2006. So many fans insisted that having Dockery and Walker was better than having NC. Those people are not so vocal in making this comparison anymore. At least NC is still with the team that he signed with. Even if you call it 7/$64M, you have to acknowledge that 1/8th of his signing bonus (whatever it was) will go as a cap hit...assuming there's a cap then, of course. At that price he's still overpaid anyway. Calling Clements a top five CB is absurd. Calling him a top ten is even too much. Is he a solid corner? Of course. But you don't pay a solid corner obscene amounts of money. Nate is a very good CB (not top 5, IMO). Winfield is still a better all-around CB than Nate. Look, I love Antoine Winfield. I love his attitude, I love the way he plays. But I don't want anything to do with having him in coverage against guys eight inches taller than him, sorry. As much of a stud as he is against the run, he's a huge liability with his size against the pass. You can hide his height if he's sitting in a cover 2 zone, but the moment you have him man up or drop deep into a cover 3 or cover 4 he's a huge liability.
Thurman#1 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 What he said. The 80 million in cap space would have been better used on more players. JMO Man, again and again people talk about the $80 million as if that was the actual number. It isn't. The last year of the contract he is supposed to recieve $15.48 mill in salary (plus a workout bonus of $500,000 if he shows up for workouts). Anyone think he's going to be on the team for that? The second-last year of the contract, he's supposed to recieve $10.77 mill in salary (plus a workout bonus of $500,000 if he shows up for workouts). That one is questionable, but possible. So the actual numbers are 7 years for $64 million or 6 years for $53 million, both of which are much more reasonable than the $80 million number that people wave around as if it was real. That was not a bad deal for the team, if Clements plays up to his potential. ------------ Which he is likely to do now that it looks like SF is building themselves a pass rush. They didn't have one last year, and no CB looks good with no pass rush. Watch Clements have a terrific year this year and everyone rush to say "Oh, Singletary is re-motivating him." That's what they'll say, but it won't be true. He'll just have a good pass rush in front of him again.
Thurman#1 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Even if you call it 7/$64M, you have to acknowledge that 1/8th of his signing bonus (whatever it was) will go as a cap hit...assuming there's a cap then, of course. At that price he's still overpaid anyway. Calling Clements a top five CB is absurd. Calling him a top ten is even too much. Is he a solid corner? Of course. But you don't pay a solid corner obscene amounts of money. Look, I love Antoine Winfield. I love his attitude, I love the way he plays. But I don't want anything to do with having him in coverage against guys eight inches taller than him, sorry. As much of a stud as he is against the run, he's a huge liability with his size against the pass. You can hide his height if he's sitting in a cover 2 zone, but the moment you have him man up or drop deep into a cover 3 or cover 4 he's a huge liability. I just gave you a major thumbs up on another thread, but you're dead wrong here. Clements will have a top 5 year once again as the rest of the defense plays better, and Winfield consistently uses his body to prevent the reciever from getting in position to recieve the pass. He is a wickedly effective pass defender as well as - you're right - one of the two or three best run defenders in the league. He got another $7+ mill / year deal this year. Because he deserved it.
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