rstencel Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Sisyphean, you are anything but a moron. Certainly didn't mean to imply otherwise. I didn't engage in an Xs and Os discussion because IMO the decision to huddle or not has little to do with Xs and Os. All I was arguing is that IF the Bills decided to scrap the no-huddle it would have little impact on their ability to implement the schemes they've installed. That's all. I'm not suggesting they 'should' scrap it. Nor do I think they will per DJ's remarks about the matter. Again, just saying it's not a big deal to huddle up whenever they want to or not. Peace. GO BILLS!!! Most of the teams that have run the no huddle as a major portion of their offense have seems to cut down significantly on the number of plays they run compared to teams that don't, and seem to rely more on execution. I think running the no huddle does change the play calling, as you need to run plays that everyone on the field can execute against every type of defense they may see and know all the possible adjustments and responsibilities for all the situations. Most no huddle teams that I am familiar with, which isn't a lot i admit, seem to run around 6-8 run plays, and 8-12 pass plays out of multiple different formations/personnel groupings. But they run them very well, and don't give reads for the defense to figure out what the play is till play is in motion. That is why fell that no huddle does affect the play calling, if want to run a efficient, high powered no huddle attack.
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Good posts, rstencel. I agree, the no huddle is used if you feel your team can win the one on one issues, and out execute/score the other team. Not sure anyone want to get into a scoring match with the patriots, with the possible exception of the Colts. The curious part about this is the Bills offensive line. Why would anyone think that this line is going to out execute the defense? Yes you can stand over the ball for a long time rather than hike it quick, but there is no real advantage to running the no huddle unless you spend at least part of the time hiking it quick. Also while your standing over the ball the defensive players can adjust and share note, while the offense is stuck in their stance, and cant compare notes, or tell the QB, that my guys winded, or biting on the stop and go, until they go off the field and give the defensive coordinator a chance to correct the issue. Rookie lineman can verify responsibilities for situations with call if need to. Rookie TE cant verify with lineman next to him who is going to pick up the blitzing LB if he comes for a play. Etc... As you can tell, I am not a fan of this team running the no huddle. At Least they have a fairly athletic line now, so that will help some what, but till they can master the execution and can get on the same page well enough to know what everyone around the will do for adjustments in different situations, they are going to struggle somewhat more in no huddle than would in huddle. I do agree its a little late to change the offense at this point, but huddling doesn't change the calls or responsibilities, it just gives them ability to run larger set of plays, since have a bit more time to correct things. Now mixing in No-Huddle with huddle for situations for for portion of the game, I do like. Having put this much time into practicing it, would allow them to use it fairly well as a change of pace. The no-huddle also changes the way the OC conducts the offense from the sideline. The offense lines up at the line of scrimmage and the coach is watching what is happening on the field and radioing in the play as the offense is getting set and standing over the ball. If he sees a mismatch, he can pounce on it. Now, if the offense and defense are huddling, he doesn't have that little extra time. (AFAIK, Trent is not calling the plays on the field.) Most of the teams that have run the no huddle as a major portion of their offense have seems to cut down significantly on the number of plays they run compared to teams that don't, and seem to rely more on execution. I think running the no huddle does change the play calling, as you need to run plays that everyone on the field can execute against every type of defense they may see and know all the possible adjustments and responsibilities for all the situations. Most no huddle teams that I am familiar with, which isn't a lot i admit, seem to run around 6-8 run plays, and 8-12 pass plays out of multiple different formations/personnel groupings. But they run them very well, and don't give reads for the defense to figure out what the play is till play is in motion. That is why fell that no huddle does affect the play calling, if want to run a efficient, high powered no huddle attack. And, still, this is the pros. You can't run the same 6 plays, each with their own personnel package, and with 1 or 2 formations. (The classic drunk fan in the stands calling 90% of the offensive plays correctly before the snap syndrome.) The defenses are too good for that.
FGD Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Of Course Jaws is Right. A no huddle requires superior talant that uses pace to overwhelm opponents dispite the simplicity of the offense. It also requires a superior defense to handle the adverse time of posession, but most of all GREAT offensive line. We saw the K-Gun which tried to maximize talant at the expense of scheme and the Bills don't have any where enough talanet to run that No-Huddle. OK What about Indy's? Well you need a QB that is like Manning capable of making last moment adjustments and reads. Again they have a superior offensive line with a center who has nearly a hard a job at the QB's. The Bills no-huddle is like putting a spoiler on a 4 cylinder Yugo. Sure its is a conversation piece, but it does nothing for the car. Its ludicious. No one can say a no huddle is coaching to the talent the Bills have.
rstencel Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Was thinking about another possible reason Bills may be running the no-huddle. One thing that TO's past QB's all complained about would be that when he is not getting allot of balls thrown his way, he is in the huddle pressuring the QB to go to him, and if they don't, he keeps stepping up pressure. Maybe they just want to keep TO out of TE's ear. Weird thought I know, but possible bonus of it.
rstencel Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Good posts, rstencel. The curious part about this is the Bills offensive line. Why would anyone think that this line is going to out execute the defense? The no-huddle also changes the way the OC conducts the offense from the sideline. The offense lines up at the line of scrimmage and the coach is watching what is happening on the field and radioing in the play as the offense is getting set and standing over the ball. If he sees a mismatch, he can pounce on it. Now, if the offense and defense are huddling, he doesn't have that little extra time. (AFAIK, Trent is not calling the plays on the field.) And, still, this is the pros. You can't run the same 6 plays, each with their own personnel package, and with 1 or 2 formations. (The classic drunk fan in the stands calling 90% of the offensive plays correctly before the snap syndrome.) The defenses are too good for that. Some good points on the OC calling plays. Yes having the OC on the sideline does allow him to see and react to items, but he can only communicate with the QB, and until the QB goes under center. So even though he can radio in, once the QB either puts his hand under center, or lines up like is going to receive snap from center, even if he backs off the microphone has been disabled, so he cant use the info on how defense lines up to change things after that point. But that is a good point, if there is something he sees or one of other coaches then can call something to take advantage of it. He doesn't necessarily see everything, and doesn't necessarily have as much incite as to what defenders are doing as the players on the field, but is an improvement over QB having to see everything for sure. Colts only run a hand full of pass and run plays when they go into the no huddle. Allot of teams only run a handful of runs even when huddling. The key to keeping the defenses at bay before the snap isn't necessarily having hundreds of plays, as it is not tipping off what the play is. Good receivers run all their routes the same till the break for most part. If you have plays designed that work with many formations, and are well designed with different options depending on what the defenders do its not very easy to stop them. Execution of the plays is allot easier to do when have small set of key plays that can execute extremely well than having hundreds of plays that run OK. Doesn't mean they dint have additional plays that use for specific situations, and for each week/opponent, just that the core set of plays is small but adaptable and well executed, since no huddle attack requires the players be more comfortable with all the plays.
truth on hold Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Honestly, this is shaping up to be one of the worst seasons the franchise has ever seen (and that's saying something). http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/i...e-a-big-mistake "I think they're making a big mistake running the no-huddle." hes right and ive said it before. trent edwards isnt jim kelly and this is a different era w/ the game a lot more technical than it was when kelly played. if anything i think it actually plays into the defense's hands when buffalo uses this strategy.
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 I love Jaws and think he is great but he also said JP was going to be a super star QB in the NFL..... Maybe he meant UFL??? Lots of scouts and analysts said this, especially after JP was the 11th rated QB and in top 5 in several categories that last year as a starter. Jaws is actually one of the most reliable analysts on televised football...he is usually pretty spot on. But, Bills fans hate anyone who doesnt say something nice, or give us the "respect" they delusionally think we should have...
truth on hold Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Bills no huddle lacks energy. it seems to take them just as long if not longer to get a play off. really all it does it allows the defense to see our formation and hear all the signal calling ... takes the element of surprise right out of our offense.
Lofton80 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 My biggest issue with the no huddle is that it abandons the run game too easily. Have we had one time consuming drive all season? A young line is likely going to be better at run blocking. The other issue with the no huddle is it limits the formations. Honestly, I am at the point with this coach coupled with the injuries to Butler and Bell that I am not sure it matters what they do.
BuffaloWings Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 My biggest issue with the no huddle is that it abandons the run game too easily. Have we had one time consuming drive all season? A young line is likely going to be better at run blocking. The other issue with the no huddle is it limits the formations. Honestly, I am at the point with this coach coupled with the injuries to Butler and Bell that I am not sure it matters what they do. I don't think they're abandoning the run game because of the no-huddle...it's because they're falling behind and don't have time to establish it.
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