Excerpts from Obama's Speech Tonight

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I think he should be ashamed. He can and should disagree when he feels that way, but to disrespect the office of the President. Very low class.

 

And really he's a liar? Give me a break.

 

 

Please. The office of the President hasn't been shown respect for the past 16 years. Why should anyone start now? And yes, he is a fuggen liar. He's a Chicago politician. You can't be honest and succeed in Chicago.

[The Poojer]

i am assuming that you were equally outraged at this then as well, Reid calls Bush a loser, or is decorum and respect only applicable to situations like this?

 

I think he should be ashamed. He can and should disagree when he feels that way, but to disrespect the office of the President. Very low class.

 

And really he's a liar? Give me a break. :D

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I know it was a breach of decorum, but I loved the snickering. Not becuase Im a right wing hack, but becuase I love the way the Brits do their speeches to their "congress." The two sides yell at one another and the speaker.....its actually fascinating to watch. Overall, the speech was good, even to a guy like me. But it got REAL weak when it came to how this plan is gonna work. There is a TON of details there that have yet to be fleshed out. But to be fair, Kennedy had ZERO clue how we would actually get to the moon when he made his famous speech regarding that topic. A President's job is to lay out the vision and the goal, not always provide the details. And even I admit....Obama did that well last night. Now lets see the devil in all those details and fight this thing out to get a sensible reform bill EVERYONE can agree on.

 

 

Good luck. his own party in the house wants a "Public Option." Once a "Public Option" is on the table, the single-payer socialist system WILL become the norm. It is only a matter of time.

[murra]

This thread sucks because everyone's response has been predictable. All I have to do is look at the avatar/username and I can accurately predict what they're going to say. I'm worried about the partisanship of our great nation. I'm really worried. Bush polarized us pretty far, there is no denying that...but this is a new level.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

This thread sucks because everyone's response has been predictable. All I have to do is look at the avatar/username and I can accurately predict what they're going to say. I'm worried about the partisanship of our great nation. I'm really worried. Bush polarized us pretty far, there is no denying that...but this is a new level.

 

 

Sometimes, you have to take a stand on principle. Compromising one's ideals for the sake of "progress" is not a good thing.

[pBills]

Good luck. his own party in the house wants a "Public Option." Once a "Public Option" is on the table, the single-payer socialist system WILL become the norm. It is only a matter of time.

 

 

Ok, let me clear up a few things...

 

First off, enough with the Socialist crap. Even the leader of the Socialist Party of America says Obama is NOT a socialist.

 

Second, when Reid calls Bush a loser that is low class as well. No matter who the President is or what side of the aisle he favors SHOULD BE GIVEN RESPECT. I also think it's horrible and actually a bit pathetic that people (AMERICANS) do not feel this way.

 

Third, Joe are you from Chicago? If not, then what do you know about Chicago politics other than what you see on Fox News? Is he a liar because you disagree with him? Let me know why you feel that way?

[pBills]

Oh my God...the WHOLE !@#$ING PLANET knows Chicago set the bar for corruption in politics. My ONE year old knows it.....cut the crap.

 

 

No, I am pretty sick of this nonsense. "Oh my lord Obama is from Chicago he must be a liar..." "Obama is not born in the U.S." Obama this and that... it's F'ing stupid and really people should know better.

[Fastback]

Classless. In a better world, he'd be pressured to resign unless he did anything short of a complete mea culpa.

 

But in the world where you the president can lie under oath or completely botch an entire war and not pay a price, this will get 3 days of lip service and be forgotten.

 

I don't disagree that it was classless. But what is worse, the President clearly lying when he said that the plan was largely going to be paid for by eliminating hundreds of billions of dollars in fraud waste and abuse in MediCare or the Congresscritter calling him out on it?

 

Granted two wrongs don't make a right, but the President is full of schit if he thinks they're going to lop that much 'waste' out of MediCare. Why not just do that now?

[GG]

See? You don't understand it. The government doesn't enter LABillzFan's life with the "public option". How exactly does the public option force itself on you, or change your life, except allow you to insure your employees cheaper IF YOU CHOOSE.

 

I hate the slippery slope arguments, but in this case I will make the exception.

 

The concern is a long term one, because I have not seen much in the opaque proposals that will actually reduce the total cost of medical care. As you toss more people into the public plan, the buying power of the government will slowly crowd out private insurance. The natural response will be for premiums to be raised or for standards of care to be lowered. I am too old and cynical to think that people will behave to serve a common good to ensure good medical care if there is no profit motive at the end of the rainbow.

 

So if you are serious about reforming the way healthcare is delivered in the US, then you better put the entire system into the grinder, and that includes eliminate the tax inequality of employer provided care, make people more accountable for the costs they are consuming in the system, address the skyrocketing malpractice premiums, etc.

 

But the plans as discussed right now are in the unicorn fart variety that promise more service and leave the long term funding questions unresolved. So if we take history as a guide, in a democracy where the population is not accountable for costs, people are always willing to vote themselves a free lunch.

[Wacka]

Not a thing has changed since the recess started. There are 5 plans in Congress, NO tort reform, still a "public option" (socialized medicine), etc. All that was different was that the One flapped his gums for a while and the press and dem congressmen slobbered his knob for a while afterward.

 

Of course Obama is corrupt, he came from Chicago. How do you think JFK won?

 

Obama is a socialist. If it walks like a duck and quaks like a duck...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Ok, let me clear up a few things...

 

First off, enough with the Socialist crap. Even the leader of the Socialist Party of America says Obama is NOT a socialist.

 

walks like a duck, talks like a duck, is a duck.

 

Third, Joe are you from Chicago? If not, then what do you know about Chicago politics other than what you see on Fox News? Is he a liar because you disagree with him? Let me know why you feel that way?

 

I don't watch Fox News. I *DO* , however, know a little bit about the Daleys, the Chicago political machine and Nixon v. Kennedy.

[pBills]

Of course Obama is corrupt, he came from Chicago.

Obama is a socialist. If it walks like a duck and quaks like a duck...

 

 

Well there's some logic. HAHAHAHAHA!!!

[pBills]

I hate the slippery slope arguments, but in this case I will make the exception.

 

The concern is a long term one, because I have not seen much in the opaque proposals that will actually reduce the total cost of medical care. As you toss more people into the public plan, the buying power of the government will slowly crowd out private insurance. The natural response will be for premiums to be raised or for standards of care to be lowered. I am too old and cynical to think that people will behave to serve a common good to ensure good medical care if there is no profit motive at the end of the rainbow.

 

So if you are serious about reforming the way healthcare is delivered in the US, then you better put the entire system into the grinder, and that includes eliminate the tax inequality of employer provided care, make people more accountable for the costs they are consuming in the system, address the skyrocketing malpractice premiums, etc.

 

But the plans as discussed right now are in the unicorn fart variety that promise more service and leave the long term funding questions unresolved. So if we take history as a guide, in a democracy where the population is not accountable for costs, people are always willing to vote themselves a free lunch.

 

 

Nice post.

[John Adams]

Clinton, or LBJ?

 

I was thinking Clinton and Bush. LBJ is fine too.

[IDBillzFan]

See? You don't understand it. The government doesn't enter LABillzFan's life with the "public option". How exactly does the public option force itself on you, or change your life, except allow you to insure your employees cheaper IF YOU CHOOSE.

The fact that you DON'T see how it will enter the lives of people like myself is rather startling, but I'll walk you through it one more time.

 

It'll enter my life when I have to pay taxes to cover it. It'll enter my life when the bottomless resource pit known as the federal government makes it impossible for private insurers to compete, leaving me with no other option BUT to take on the government plan. I currently pay 12.4% every paycheck for a Social Security program that'll likely never pay me a dime. So I'm sorry if you have a hard time understanding that my business and I are slated to be taxed for yet ANOTHER government program that I won't use or need...a program that will be bloated, underfunded, and add to a deficit that my son's children will have to pay off. (Yeah, I know, it'll be deficit neutral. Right. ) But hey, taxing my company more won't have any ramifications to it. So I stop hiring and raise my price to cover costs. Who cares, right?

 

And again, I want less government, not more, regardless of whether it directly enters my personal life. Entitlements bother me. You like them. We'll never see eye to eye on that, but in the end, the more the government gives to people for free, the less the people are really free.

 

But what REALLY pisses me off in this particular debate is that the left is ONLY interested in a government option. They have NO interest in true tort reform. NO interest in national competition. No interest in helping the free market work it's way through this because it's too self-absorbed to consider that maybe, just maybe, government's current role in health care is part of the problem, not part of the solution. It's either a government-run option or something that leads to a government-run option. I know you embrace that. I don't. And I plan to keep yelling and fighting against it.

[John Adams]

I don't disagree that it was classless. But what is worse, the President clearly lying when he said that the plan was largely going to be paid for by eliminating hundreds of billions of dollars in fraud waste and abuse in MediCare or the Congresscritter calling him out on it?

 

Granted two wrongs don't make a right, but the President is full of schit if he thinks they're going to lop that much 'waste' out of MediCare. Why not just do that now?

 

Don't get me wrong: I despise this plan and if he's not flat-out lying, he's spinning the sh-- out of the numbers. Spending trillions and not contributing to the deficit is cute as hell. I am merely pointing out the lack of decorum. If we are going to the do the UK-thing, that's fine. But at the moment we don't and when the President visits Congress, it's supposed to be a respected occasion, even if you disagree.

 

The guy acted like a douche. He apologized. It's over.

[ieatcrayonz]

There is a TON of details there that have yet to be fleshed out. But to be fair, Kennedy had ZERO clue how we would actually get to the moon when he made his famous speech regarding that topic. A President's job is to lay out the vision and the goal, not always provide the details. And even I admit....Obama did that well last night. Now lets see the devil in all those details and fight this thing out to get a sensible reform bill EVERYONE can agree on.

It's funny, you think Obama is behind Kennedy but I think he is ahead for almost the same reasons.

 

Kennedy did help lay out the vision for getting us to the moon, but it is still unclear as to how we paid. OTOH Obama is tackling a much bigger problem than just getting to another planet like the moon. The US healthcare industry is roughly the size of Britain's entire economy. Obama has figured out how to pay for at least a good part of it. It is in the bill but partially hidden and unexplained.

 

I have as much or more respect for old people than anyone, but let's face it, they are selfish. They typically sit on their porch yelling at kids on their lawn, seemingly more worried about a few blades of grass than America's youth having fun. Now we are getting to the point where some hippies are getting old. Do you think the hippies will be more selfish or less selfish than most old people. They will be a humongous drain on the system.

 

Imagine getting rid of an entire British economy's worth of old people. How much money would be saved and how much housing would be opened up for the poor saving money in other categories of government spending? A lot of this stuff is in Obama's plan. He will have meetings with old people every five years telling them to die. Now hippies are selfish for sure but they are even more gullible. These old hippies will drop dead on the spot if the President tells them it is cool. Look at how many of these pot smoking losers went along with the crowd back in their heyday. All it takes is some real "cool dude" dying for the government to set the wheels in motion. You think Obama won't kill off Grace Slick or Neil Young or some other pathetic idiot to further the cause? They can make one of those martyr tapes like Al Quaeda and show it at the five year meetings. Very few hippies will make it to the second meeting.

 

Yes people taking over the old hippies house will have to have a large re-decorating budget but so what?

 

If Kennedy implemented something like this we could have an amusement park on Saturn's ring instead of a flag on the moon.

[The Poojer]

But John Adams, that is what is frustrating me so much...people are upset about the fluff and are just bending over and taking on the substance part.....I feel the need to scream at the top of my lungs when I hear such stuff, but no one listens, they simply call me a 'teabagger', a 'birther', a 'wingnut' or even worse a racist. It seems that there is just too much blind faith in anything and everything this president says. I think I feel that if we yell about things, maybe it will delay the process long enough for people to actually look at the substance and begin to question, or realize that it is the best option.....

 

Don't get me wrong: I despise this plan and if he's not flat-out lying, he's spinning the sh-- out of the numbers. Spending trillions and not contributing to the deficit is cute as hell. I am merely pointing out the lack of decorum. If we are going to the do the UK-thing, that's fine. But at the moment we don't and when the President visits Congress, it's supposed to be a respected occasion, even if you disagree.

 

The guy acted like a douche. He apologized. It's over.

[IDBillzFan]

Don't get me wrong: I despise this plan and if he's not flat-out lying, he's spinning the sh-- out of the numbers. Spending trillions and not contributing to the deficit is cute as hell. I am merely pointing out the lack of decorum. If we are going to the do the UK-thing, that's fine. But at the moment we don't and when the President visits Congress, it's supposed to be a respected occasion, even if you disagree.

 

The guy acted like a douche. He apologized. It's over.

I agree with all of this except the "it's over" part. To folks like us, it's over. But folks like us aren't responsible for the news, and it may be an unfortunate turn of events for Obama that for any watercooler folks discussing last night's speech today, this is what they'll discuss leading into the weekend. While it won't help Wilson a whole lot during the next week, there's a chance the media will ensure that by demonizing him -- which many of them seem to be doing loudly today -- the message of the "big" speech is lost. If I thought Republicans were crafty enough, I'd almost suggest they planned it that way. But they just ain't that crafty.

 

In the end, nothing new came from the speech last night, and when the Wilson dust settles, I would wager to guess that everyone will head back to where they were prior to the speech: most don't like the plan, poll numbers going down, and by the end of September, when stocks are down again and unemployment goes up again, the American people may start being less concerned with what Obama wants and more concerned with their own futures.

 

Nice speech. Waste of time.

[ieatcrayonz]

This ain't there if you haven't noticed. We have no Queen and no matter where you are, if you are a respectful person, you follow the norms of your peers. This assclown did not.

A few lines before he yelled out there were a bunch of murmurs and groans. This stuff is fairly normal. He was probably one of the murmurers. It probably got his courage up.

 

He is like the nerdy kid in a crowd at school who doesn't know when to shut up. A few lines later he probably thought his yell would be drowned out by the other murmurs and he would stay anonymous. He could tell the cool kids later that "I said he was a liar". Maybe he'd get to hang out with the cool kids a little more. The only problem is that the cool kids did not murmur at the right time and he yelled out all by himself. You see this kind of stuff on sitcoms all the tiime.