\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 ...the backstabbers, backstabbers: http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...schonert-firing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Tim Graham ROCKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I hadn't read that. Man, that is something else. I am simultaneously happy that Turk is gone, and pissed that he was put in this position in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Once again: Good job Tim Graham! That really fills in a lot of the holes in the various reports we have heard. For example, this helps me to understand why Evans may have been confused and went to ask the coaches "WTF?". Jauron gets wind of it and gives Turk the heave-ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 The concerning thing is that according to this, Turk was apparently implementing the offense as he was told -- the offense was being forced down his throat. Yes, he didn't like it and was unprofessional in voicing his "concerns" to the team (and eventually directly to the media). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 The concerning thing is that according to this, Turk was apparently implementing the offense as he was told -- the offense was being forced down his throat. Yes, he didn't like it and was unprofessional in voicing his "concerns" to the team (and eventually directly to the media). But what is your point? Every head coach hires coordinators to ultimately follow the philosophy as set by the Head Coach. There is nothing concerning about this, just 'Get 'er done!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 But what is your point? Every head coach hires coordinators to ultimately follow the philosophy as set by the Head Coach. There is nothing concerning about this, just 'Get 'er done!' It flies in the face of the theory that the offensive problems were entirely on Schonert and his offense. If Schonert was running Dick's system, then firing Schonert does not translate into a change in the offense but rather more of the same. And, if you can't find anything concerning about an offense that can't score, well, there is no point in further discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Turk is a Dick. There is a reason why Mike Martz is out of work. Ever watch New England or Indy's offense. There is nothing complex about them. They just execute very well. Even when the defense knows what is coming they still execute the plays. That is what makes a great offense. Turk was more concerned with showing everyone how smart that he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 If what Turk was doing was not what Jauron wanted....well, it didn't work too well, did it? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 It flies in the face of the theory that the offensive problems were entirely on Schonert and his offense. If Schonert was running Dick's system, then firing Schonert does not translate into a change in the offense but rather more of the same. And, if you can't find anything concerning about an offense that can't score, well, there is no point in further discussion. Settle down, settle down, killer. No need to be so knee-jerk.. Whew, ok, all I was saying that you did not clearly articulate those thoughts in your last post. Tim Graham's recent article sheds more light on this situation. It seems more like Jauron set the philosophy, but Schonert did not agree with it, probably did a half @$$ job with it (i.e. did not give it his all as evidenced by his complaining to the players about 'being forced' to run it), and was responsible for his own departure. Ofcourse it is horrific for us all if what we saw in the preseason is what we will get in '09. But, I feel more comfortable now, given what has come to light with Schonert and not being onboard with the hurry-up, with AVP as someone who has run this offense before providing life and spark to the O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Christ Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 from my understanding he was asked/told to change it and Turk didn't Good Riddance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I'm still confused. Did our offense suck because Turk was doing what he wanted, or because he was doing a half-assed job of what Jauron wanted? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooderson Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I'm still confused. Did our offense suck because Turk was doing what he wanted, or because he was doing a half-assed job of what Jauron wanted? PTR I think both. It seems he was half-assing what Jauron wanted to implement while doing his own thing, which is why Jauron seemed to be on his back all off-season. If an assistant coach is not following what the head coach wants then there will be major problems. I'm an assistant coach for a high school team, and even though the assistant coaches might not like what the head coach wants, they still follow his rules and continue to run it his way. If not, then the team cannot continue forward without further complications, which is what I think we saw with the Bills offense...especially this preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Tim Graham's recent article sheds more light on this situation. It seems more like Jauron set the philosophy, but Schonert did not agree with it, Yes, that is what we are discussing in this thread. probably did a half @$$ job with it (i.e. did not give it his all as evidenced by his complaining to the players about 'being forced' to run it), and was responsible for his own departure. This may be true and it may not. Just because he backstabbed Jauron verbally does not mean he did not do what he was told. The fact they were of different philosophies is well established. What is unclear, uncertain, and concerning is who was actually winning out on game day. Now put this in your pipe: Schonert was fired 10 days before the start of the season and some of this stuff goes back to last year. If the OC was undermining the HC last year and during the string of horrific offensive play we all saw, why would the HC insist on keeping the OC and resist the owner that suggested the OC be dumped? Not only that, but Jauron didn't come to the decision to fire Schonert until most likely a day or less before it was carried out. Does any of that sound like a situation where the OC was blatantly not doing anything the HC asked of him and just trucking off doing his own thing? The fact is coaching staffs have disagreements. It is a pressure cooker business and tempers can fly out of control. Especially when things are going to crap. It could be taken either that Schonert was doing what Jauron told him to do and disagreed with it very strongly or it could be that Schonert was running his own "team" and ignoring Jauron or it could be a little of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I have a weird feeling that in a year or two, after Jauron's probably gone, I'm going to end up coming down on Turk's side of this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Ah, so this is where it is. I did search, but the title threw me off. Sorry 'bout that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I think both. It seems he was half-assing what Jauron wanted to implement while doing his own thing, which is why Jauron seemed to be on his back all off-season. If an assistant coach is not following what the head coach wants then there will be major problems. I'm an assistant coach for a high school team, and even though the assistant coaches might not like what the head coach wants, they still follow his rules and continue to run it his way. If not, then the team cannot continue forward without further complications, which is what I think we saw with the Bills offense...especially this preseason. Agreed. In addition, when Turk didn't want to do what Jauron's telling him to do - and also voices this to the players - what kind of position does this put the players in? I'd hate to be Edwards, Evans, & TO in these meetings. I'm in no way suggesting this happened, but it almost makes me want to think that Schonert was telling the offense to tank the plays so he can "prove" to Jauron that what he wants won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in NY Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 I think I agree with MattyT. I think when Dick is gone we'll look back and say see Turk was right. He just went about things all wrong. But I can't imagine anybody giving him a job in the future. It wasn't like he was a brilliant OC to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Yes, that is what we are discussing in this thread. Dude, do you have a wild hair or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Yes, that is what we are discussing in this thread. This may be true and it may not. Just because he backstabbed Jauron verbally does not mean he did not do what he was told. The fact they were of different philosophies is well established. What is unclear, uncertain, and concerning is who was actually winning out on game day. Now put this in your pipe: Schonert was fired 10 days before the start of the season and some of this stuff goes back to last year. If the OC was undermining the HC last year and during the string of horrific offensive play we all saw, why would the HC insist on keeping the OC and resist the owner that suggested the OC be dumped? Not only that, but Jauron didn't come to the decision to fire Schonert until most likely a day or less before it was carried out. Does any of that sound like a situation where the OC was blatantly not doing anything the HC asked of him and just trucking off doing his own thing? The fact is coaching staffs have disagreements. It is a pressure cooker business and tempers can fly out of control. Especially when things are going to crap. It could be taken either that Schonert was doing what Jauron told him to do and disagreed with it very strongly or it could be that Schonert was running his own "team" and ignoring Jauron or it could be a little of both. If Jauron was on Turk's back all offseason / preseason, it would indicate that Turk hadn't been doing what was asked of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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