Lori Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Lee's comments were included in my last write-thru (update) of my Schonert-Fired story that moved on the wire some time around 9ish. don't have time to find a link, but it's out there. jw This one is timestamped 5:42 a.m., but does contain some words from Evans ... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090905/ap_on_..._schonert_fired
vincec Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 On the Channel 2 newscast last night they had a quote from Turk saying something along the lines of "He (Jaron) was on me all off-season to simplify the offense. He said we had too many plays, too many formations. He wants a pop-gun offense." I can't find the quote online anywhere. I think that all of this bodes very badly for the Bills and Jauron. It's interesting to hear this. With Schonert's offense struggling, I was reminded of how Sam Wyche's (his former coach and no-huddle author) offense struggled during his final years as Tampa's coach. A major criticism then was that the offense was too complicated and that things needed to be simplified. Turk's offense looks more similar to the Sam Wyche version that Jim Kelly's in execution and intent. It's also funny to hear this when there has been so much criticism of Jauron's previous offensive coordinators, especially Steve Fairchild, that his offense's were TOO simple and vanilla.
EC-Bills Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 On the Channel 2 newscast last night they had a quote from Turk saying something along the lines of "He (Jaron) was on me all off-season to simplify the offense. He said we had too many plays, too many formations. He wants a pop-gun offense." I can't find the quote online anywhere. I think that all of this bodes very badly for the Bills and Jauron. How is it a bad thing to simplify? We obviously weren't doing very well with complex.
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 curious, Lee Evans discussed the need to simplify the offense and hoped AVP would do so, when I spoke to him last night. jw I think OC's who are trying to prove or re-prove themselves try to make things too complicated. Secure OC's and successful teams often keep it simple. The Bills certainly have examples of both type of OC's in our history, but more of the types that try to show how smart they are, unfortunately. One thing to remember is that with a developing OL you want them to get comfortable and complicated play calling is not the way to do it. In this area DJ has shown intelligence by pushing Turk to simplify and eventually firing him. I'm glad he didn't wait until we had lost some real games to do so. With DJ's penchant for extreme loyalty to staff, when he does fire someone I would accept it as the right thing to do.
I'm Spartacus Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 why ? because Dick has been so successful with the multitude of OCs that have tried to implement an offense to his specs? I'M SPARTACUS!
Dan Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Simplify his reads....are you serious. Perfect idea, give him two reads per pass. The defense will know this, cover both and Trent will have to check down to Fred for a loss of two because of the pop watner B.S. If that's the case Trent's new nickname should be 'Simple Jack'. IMO, Trent is still a young QB and still trying to grasp all the defenses, i.e. the game still moves pretty fast for him. All too often, he appears to go through all of his reads and then settle on the last one, the dump off, because he's running out of time. Occasionally, he goes back to the WR, but by then the DB is all over the route. It just seems that it takes him too long to assess the coverage on 3 receivers and his dumpoff. And with this line, time is one thing he doesn't have. Hence my suggestion. I would give him 2 reads per play. Of course, those reads could/would change depending on what the defense is doing. For example, if you have 2 outside WRs, 1 Slot, and 1 RB (dump off) on any given pass play, you throw it to one of the 2 WRs - whoever has single coverage. 1, 2, 3, throw. Of course, you can change that with a line call and make the Slot or the RB the first 2 reads. So, you don't always look to or throw to the same 1 or 2 guys. But, I think Trent has trouble trying to look at WR1, WR2, Slot, then RB, then throw. Not to mention, he doesn't have time. Maybe it's stupid. After all, I'm not nor never will be an offensive coordinator. I just know that this offense is highly predictable and lacks all sense of rhythm and identity. There are several ways, perhaps, to fix it. But, simplifying the formations and the assignments, I think, will make them less predictable while allowing the players to play more and think less.
Magox Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Who cares whether the offense is simple or complex? The only thing that matters is moving the chains and putting points on the board.
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 On Sirius the other day, some Bills fan called in and asked the hosts if an NFL team wouldn't practice against the defense they were going to face in a game. Tim and Pat jumped all over the guy saying that "every NFL team" works against all the different NFL fronts all camp long and runs the opponent's defense all week in preparation for the upcoming game. Yet, Trent Edwards said the Bills do not practice against the 3-4 front and that he has to "learn on the fly". So, something is clearly askew. "Impeccably prepared."
Magox Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 It's pretty obvious, that there is genius in simplicity, and Jauron did what he needed to do to change the dynamics of this enemic offense that we have had so far. He should of done it before the season even started, but we are where we are, and in my view he made the right move. Now cut Kelsay
Bufcomments Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 I think Jauron was right in firing Turk. But he should have did it after the Green Bay game IMO I hope to God that AVP makes the game plan more easy for the young players on Offense to digest Like allot of posters said simple is better and I agree. Hey Pop Warner offensives have been known to score more TD's than the Bills lol
GaryPinC Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 What I hope is that RW had a meeting with DJ before DJ called to let Wilson know he was firing Schonert. A conversation along the lines of "Dick, I've got a really bad feeling about our offense this season. This wasn't what I had in mind when I kept you on this year. You've got a week to let me know how you intend to fix the problem or I'll consider YOU to be the problem." Look at the similar history of our offense through 2 coordinators under Jauron: -conservative playcalling and gross ineptitude inside the red zone. -lack of screens and play-action passes -not allowing QB's to audible at the line of scrimmage -dink-and-dunk passing game -work on attacking offense during training camp/preseason never to be seen during the real games I hope it's coincidence that there were 2 OC's who sucked in almost exactly the same way, but with a self-professed conservative head coach, I personnally believe Jauron has played a large role in all these similarites, particularly in the red zone. My hope RW had this initial meeting was to let DJ know he needs to change his conservative philosophy. Jauron's explanation for his decision is hilariously 3rd person and reeks of Freudian undertones. All I hope is that Jauron stops obsessing about mistakes and lets his team play ball. Kind of funny to see all the BS from the coaches and players such as Edwards "We'll be fine offensively, totally confident, etc. " is just so much fluff. Obviously Lee Evans couldn't stomach the company line. We all knew these guys were blowing smoke up our keysters but it's nice to see it farted back in the coaches' faces. C'mon AVP and let's go Bills.
spartacus Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 I think Jauron was right in firing Turk. But he should have did it after the Green Bay game IMO I hope to God that AVP makes the game plan more easy for the young players on Offense to digest Like allot of posters said simple is better and I agree. Hey Pop Warner offensives have been known to score more TD's than the Bills lol typical leadership in Buffalo the bar is set so low that trying to master a Pop Warner offense is all that we can hope to achieve. and if we score a few TDs, the season will be considered a success. Playoffs be damned Dick gets to stay for another year - he is a genius for firing his OC and fine tuning Pop Warner!!
The Senator Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 I think what you are saying is, the Bills telegraph their plays, with their formations (and personnel, at times). I would actually like to see the Bills run their basic plays out of many different formations, so the opposing D wouldn't be aware of what was called. Fewer plays (that they can run with confidence) but out of different formations and personnel packages, would be my preference. And I agree they have to build an identity. One of the reasons I would like a coach like Cohwer is, I suspect he would build a smash-mouth team, like the Steelers. That is the kind of team the Bills should be emulating, IMO. Geez, Deano - you sound just like a disciple of... Mike Leach The first play Leach called against Texas A.&M. was the first play on Cody Hodges's wrist. That wrist held a mere 23 ordinary plays, 9 red-zone plays (for situations inside an opponent's 20-yard line), 6 goal-line plays, 2 2-point-conversion plays and 5 trick plays. "There's two ways to make it more complex for the defense," Leach says. "One is to have a whole bunch of different plays, but that's no good because then the offense experiences as much complexity as the defense. Another is a small number of plays and run it out of lots of different formations." Leach prefers new formations. "That way, you don't have to teach a guy a new thing to do," he says. "You just have to teach him new places to stand." Texas Tech's offense has no playbook; Cody Hodges's wrist and Mike Leach's back pocket hold the only formal written records of what is widely regarded as one of the most intricate offenses ever to take a football field. The plays change too often, in response to the defense and the talents of the players on hand, to bother recording them.
DrFishfinder Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Well, in a way it does make sense to get a good core offensive scheme first, then add to it. It seems that since 5-1 last season, there really wasn't much of a core offense except for Lynch running and throwing to Reed on 3rd & 6. Apart from that, there really wasn't much that was dependable, offensively. We can only hope this move jolts the staff & players out of their complacency.
H2o Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 I think the writing is on the wall and if this team stinks it up Dick will be sent packing, early, for the final time by an NFL team.
first_and_ten Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 This is really clear, and I think DJ was correct in firing Turk if he made the offense too complex for the no-huddle. You can't run the no-huddle with a million formations, and a boatload of motion and get everyone in line, especially with defenses having the radio in their helmet. Makes perfect sense, and if Shonert couldn't see that he is the one that is retarded. Yes, doesn't making the offense very complex kind of ruin the whole idea of having a no-huddle? It leads to mistakes, which is what we were seeing.
first_and_ten Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 I think the writing is on the wall and if this team stinks it up Dick will be sent packing, early, for the final time by an NFL team. NO DOUBT!!
Lori Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 You know what makes me laugh? At the game I covered today, the home team went to a no-huddle -- with a freshman QB -- midway through the second quarter. Everybody on the offense has a wristband with the plays, he calls out the number, and away they go. And they scored three touchdowns with it. Lost the game, but not because of anything the offense did wrong. Yes, I realize the NFL isn't small-school preps, that there needs to be a higher degree of difficulty to keep the defense from raising hell. But sometimes, it looked like the Bills were the team being outsmarted, not the opponents ...
Fan in San Diego Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 Jauron is all about executing a play successfully. The plans are designed to be successful if executed correctly. So as Marv would say, simplify and run a few plays succesfully.
TheChimp Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 The thing that pisses me off right now is that Jauron stopped mid-piss. He totally half-assed that thing. He's like the meek, skinny guy who sees a brutal mugging across the street, and instinctively yells for the muggers to stop, then realizes he just made noise and quickly puts his hand over his mouth and ducks behind the garbage cans so they don't attack him next. Schonert was only one of MANY guys, including players and coaches, who deserved to get the axe. And some guys who DID get the axe, I'm still dumbfounded how they got released and other guys kept their jobs. I'm serious, I TRIED to give Jauron the benefit of the doubt this preseason. But he really, truly is the most gutless, weakest-willed, and absolutely CLUELESS mother!@#$er to ever coach in this league. Having to sit and watch him roam the sidelines like some escaped dementia patient, all the while knowing that he's making in one season what it'll take me, what, 66 YEARS to earn....
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