ThereIsNoDog Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Fantastic avatar and title, by the way. "Put the fu#$ing OC in the basket!"
Guest dog14787 Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 I heard Edwards and Schonert liked to exchange text messages. Shonert: Mary, its almost game time, so time to slip on the dress and glove now. TE: dogonit!!!
ThereIsNoDog Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 I heard Edwards and Schonert liked to exchange text messages. Maybe that's why it took so long to realy the plays to Trent during games.
JohnC Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 The Bills had Peters at LT and Walker at RT last year, and the offense still sucked. Good point. If you think this year's line is better with Walker at LT instead of Peters then I disagree with your opinion. If you think that Brad Butler is better better than Walker at RT then I again disagree with you. If you think it was smart to get rid of Peters without much of a backup plan then I disagree with you again. As far as the offense being bad last year on this point I agree with you. But the REALITY is that the Bills have been bad on offense for an EXTENDED period of time going back to Bledsoe and Losman stints. I'm surprised you didn't notice the long term ineptitude of the offense. Most everyone else couldn't help to see something so blatantly obvious!
Bill from NYC Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 The Bills had Peters at LT and Walker at RT last year, and the offense still sucked. Good point. And the 3 interior linemen were about as bad as any in the league. I think you forgot to add this.
ThereIsNoDog Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 If you think this year's line is better with Walker at LT instead of Peters then I disagree with your opinion. If you think that Brad Butler is better better than Walker at RT then I again disagree with you. If you think it was smart to get rid of Peters without much of a backup plan then I disagree with you again. As far as the offense being bad last year on this point I agree with you. But the REALITY is that the Bills have been bad on offense for an EXTENDED period of time going back to Bledsoe and Losman stints. I'm surprised you didn't notice the long term ineptitude of the offense. Most everyone else couldn't help to see something so blatantly obvious! So you're saying the offense has been bad for years, before Peters or Walker played on it, right?
ThereIsNoDog Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 And the 3 interior linemen were about as bad as any in the league. I think you forgot to add this. Yep, just like JC forgot to mention that the interior of the OL is much-improved this year.
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Yep, just like JC forgot to mention that the interior of the OL is much-improved this year. Um, sorry, no. Two rookies and a utility interior guy are not an improvement. Especially when one of the bad interior players from last year is now playing RT. Specifically, Walker is a big downgrade at LT, a rookie is at LG, Hangartner can probably remember the snap count so let's call that one an upgrade, a rookie is at RG, and one of the bad interior players last year is now the RT. I like the rookies' potential and hopefully a next year these kids will be through the shell shock. But, there is no way they are ready now and they are going to struggle most of the season. (It should also be mentioned that Schouman looked like so much garbage as an inline blocker so far. Robert Royal was a clown as a receiver, but Schouman is a lousy blocker.) Hopefully, the interior gets better over time; but, for now, the OL as a unit is definitely not "much-improved" over what it was 12 months ago. We'll see how much worse on MNF.
ThereIsNoDog Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Um, sorry, no. Two rookies and a utility interior guy are not an improvement. Especially when one of the bad interior players from last year is now playing RT. Specifically, Walker is a big downgrade at LT, a rookie is at LG, Hangartner can probably remember the snap count so let's call that one an upgrade, a rookie is at RG, and one of the bad interior players last year is now the RT. I like the rookies' potential and hopefully a next year these kids will be through the shell shock. But, there is no way they are ready now and they are going to struggle most of the season. (It should also be mentioned that Schouman looked like so much garbage as an inline blocker so far. Robert Royal was a clown as a receiver, but Schouman is a lousy blocker.) Hopefully, the interior gets better over time; but, for now, the OL as a unit is definitely not "much-improved" over what it was 12 months ago. We'll see how much worse on MNF. The unit as a whole, at present, is no worse than it was last year. But as you noted, the rookies will improve with time, and I expect Bell to start at LT when he's healthy, probably after the bye week, which will move Walker back to RT. Butler could also improve at RT. And TO's presence helps a lot.
Bill from NYC Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Um, sorry, no. Two rookies and a utility interior guy are not an improvement. Especially when one of the bad interior players from last year is now playing RT. Specifically, Walker is a big downgrade at LT, a rookie is at LG, Hangartner can probably remember the snap count so let's call that one an upgrade, a rookie is at RG, and one of the bad interior players last year is now the RT. I like the rookies' potential and hopefully a next year these kids will be through the shell shock. But, there is no way they are ready now and they are going to struggle most of the season. (It should also be mentioned that Schouman looked like so much garbage as an inline blocker so far. Robert Royal was a clown as a receiver, but Schouman is a lousy blocker.) Hopefully, the interior gets better over time; but, for now, the OL as a unit is definitely not "much-improved" over what it was 12 months ago. We'll see how much worse on MNF. I was ONLY talking about the interior, which imo is better. From l to r, Dockery didn't give a !@#$. He had the cleanest uniform in the NFL. Fowler looked like a center. He knew the techniques, but would get shoved around and blown up like a firecracker. Butler was good approx. 1/2 the time imo. The other half he was hurt, or again imo playing hurt. I think that Wood just might be better than the 3 of them combined. Hangartner appears to be strong, and Levitre should come around, especially as a pass protector. Tho OT situation is not good, nor was I pretending it to be.
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 The unit as a whole, at present, is no worse than it was last year. But as you noted, the rookies will improve with time, and I expect Bell to start at LT when he's healthy, probably after the bye week, which will move Walker back to RT. And TO's addition helps a lot. Bell is essentially a rookie. He has as many NFL snaps as Wood and Levitre. As for Walker, I'd be on the phone with Runyan right now. And, I know fully well that Runyan is a RT. Runyan on a peg leg would be an upgrade over the Walker.
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 I was ONLY talking about the interior, which imo is better. From l to r, Dockery didn't give a !@#$. He had the cleanest uniform in the NFL. Fowler looked like a center. He knew the techniques, but would get shoved around and blown up like a firecracker. Butler was good approx. 1/2 the time imo. The other half he was hurt, or again imo playing hurt. I think that Wood just might be better than the 3 of them combined. Hangartner appears to be strong, and Levitre should come around, especially as a pass protector. Tho OT situation is not good, nor was I pretending it to be. No big deal, my friend. I just disagree that it is better. Dockery had a bad year last year. The entire line took several leaps backwards when McNally retired, frankly. Fowler was worthless and Preston was a play killing mistake waiting to happen. I actually like Butler, though he is stiff as a stick and brittle around the edges as you say. Still, he's no puss. I like Wood's potential very much, as you do. I think he could be a special player. But, he is going to make mistakes. He is going to get his ass kicked by some men with very bad attitudes. He's a green rookie. I expect he will take his lumps and fight through it and be a better player -- not give up like, say, Fowler. I'm going to be watching Hangartner. He's a smart guy, but he is not a big and physically imposing presence. Hopefully, he can anchor the pivot, but I saw him get his ass kicked in pre-season at times. I do like the potential of the kids, but this offense is a wreck.
ThereIsNoDog Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 Bell is essentially a rookie. He has as many NFL snaps as Wood and Levitre. As for Walker, I'd be on the phone with Runyan right now. And, I know fully well that Runyan is a RT. Runyan on a peg leg would be an upgrade over the Walker. If Runyan were worth anything, he'd have been signed by now.
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 If Runyan were worth anything, he'd have been signed by now. From what I hear, he just got cleared to play the other day.
ThereIsNoDog Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 From what I hear, he just got cleared to play the other day. Runyan received clearance to play almost 2 weeks ago. Yet he still remains unsigned.
JohnC Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 So you're saying the offense has been bad for years, before Peters or Walker played on it, right? The point which you fail to acknowledge and is obvious to almost everyone but you is that Peters was our best OL for the past few years. He was the only lineman that I am aware of who made the all-star team a couple of times. The Bills front office made a decision to trade him primarily due to contract issues. I can understand that. My criticism is not that they traded him so much as that they didn't have a credible fallback position after the deal. Putting the slow footed Walker on the left side never made sense to me. Jumbling the whole line again didn't make sense to me. You are asking me if the offense has been bad for years? Why ask such a ridiculous question? Of course it has been bad. Don't you watch the games? This western NY team has been exceptionally bad for a decade. Teams which have good offenses usually don't rank 29 out of 32 for wins over a decade.
ThereIsNoDog Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 The point which you fail to acknowledge and is obvious to almost everyone but you is that Peters was our best OL for the past few years. He was the only lineman that I am aware of who made the all-star team a couple of times. The Bills front office made a decision to trade him primarily due to contract issues. I can understand that. My criticism is not that they traded him so much as that they didn't have a credible fallback position after the deal. Putting the slow footed Walker on the left side never made sense to me. Jumbling the whole line again didn't make sense to me. You are asking me if the offense has been bad for years? Why ask such a ridiculous question? Of course it has been bad. Don't you watch the games? This western NY team has been exceptionally bad for a decade. Teams which have good offenses usually don't rank 29 out of 32 for wins over a decade. I wasn't asking you if the offense was bad; I was telling you it's been bad for the 3 years that Peters has been starting on it, and prior to that. As for being the best O-lineman last year, that's highly debatable, and most would say "no he wasn't." I think the assessment of him being a good run blocker and an average pass protector is probably the best description of him, but for $10M/year, you want your LT to be a complete player. As for the Bills having a plan to replace Peters, the plan was to put Walker at LT and to continue to develop Bell. The only other viable option was to draft a LT. Would a rookie LT have been better? Should the Bills have said "well, we have no better options, and even though he screwed us over last year, we should pay Peters $10M/year and keep him?" We'll get to see if the Bills made a mistake by what happens this season.
Buftex Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 I don't know the dynamics between Trent and Turk, but I do know, Turk was well liked by many of the Bills support staff (ie: front office folks, not necessarily other coaches)... I will say, I liked the pick of Schoenert as OC at the time, even though I thought it was an odd choice in some ways. It was good, I thought, because Turk has been around for years, worked in a lot of different systems, with many different QB's, I figured, given his shot, he would go balls to the walls... Conversely, I think, is why it didn't work. If you have never heard Turk speak, his "style"/personality is very fiery, and seems, in no way, to be in keeping with the low-key, bland approach that the head coach seems to prefer. It kind of goes along with what Turk said after his firing. Turk seems much more agressive than Jauron. Kind of like Chuck Dickerson (not as dim-witted though) was in the Marv Levy HC days... so much for the smart guys righting the Titanic... Marv is looking more and more like a disaster as GM, Jauron may be the worst coach this team has had in the last 30 years, with the exception of Hank Bullough, Turk couldn't get the offense fixed, and the verdict is still very much out on our QB...lets get some friggin' football people in Buffalo...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 Let's face it - this team insists on giving us relatively inexperienced coordinators who have to learn on the job - and this is probably a reflection of the quality of our head coaches. The only notable exceptions in the post-Levy era that I can think of are Joe Pendry (who actually fielded, statistically, a decent offense) and Kevin Gilbride. All others on both sides of the ball seem to be those promoted from the position coach level. I think this accounts for a lot of our problems. Here's hoping that AVP can buck the trend - but I'm not hopeful.
JohnC Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 I wasn't asking you if the offense was bad; I was telling you it's been bad for the 3 years that Peters has been starting on it, and prior to that. As for being the best O-lineman last year, that's highly debatable, and most would say "no he wasn't." I think the assessment of him being a good run blocker and an average pass protector is probably the best description of him, but for $10M/year, you want your LT to be a complete player. As for the Bills having a plan to replace Peters, the plan was to put Walker at LT and to continue to develop Bell. The only other viable option was to draft a LT. Would a rookie LT have been better? Should the Bills have said "well, we have no better options, and even though he screwed us over last year, we should pay Peters $10M/year and keep him?" We'll get to see if the Bills made a mistake by what happens this season. Dog, If you don't believe that Peters was our best O lineman last year and the few years prior then tell me who you think was better than him on our line? Even the Bills front office would state the obvious that Peters was their best lineman by far. The front office felt that he wasn't worth the contract that he was seeking so they traded him to the Eagles. The Eagles regularly make the playoffs in the rugged eastern NFC division. In the past ten years they have been in the NFL championshipship game five times. The Bills have not been in the playoffs in a decade (include this year). Without a doubt the Eagles have a more competent owner, front office, scouting staff and coaching staff etc than the Bills. While the Bills refused to give Peters a major contract, the Eagles quickly sealed the mega-deal with him after the trade. As you pointed out, you said we will see if the Bills made a mistake by what happens this season. That is a reasonable stance to take. But let me remind you that the Bills have been losing and have been inept for a very long time. Their embarrassing record is not due because they make a lot of smart decisions.
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