OT- this makes my blood boil

[Simon]

I don't think it's a particularly big deal whether a particular affiliate chose to show it or not. I watched some of it with my 8yrold and it didn't bother me, but on the other hand it was really freaking weird to be watching ABC and hear f-bombs flying.....

[RkFast]

Few "drive by" comments here:

 

1. We DO live in a FREE country. Or...at least the most free. If you think we dont, travel around the world a bit.

 

2. Those of you who think Bush and Michael Powell (and Ashcroft??!!??) are the reason why things are the way they are need to wake up and get some historical perspective. The FCC has imposed guidelines for decency and has enforced them to one degree or another since before Powell was BORN. And saying that encorfement of these laws is some sort of Republican cabal is just another beyond dumb knee-jerk "Bush bad" reaction by those who also probably believe what Michael Moore says and that there was no Rosen at the Pentagon on 9/11. Before last year's SB and the millions of complaints that followed, where were these accusations?

 

3. The idea that anything should be shown on TV and "If I dont like it, turn the set off" is a cop out. If I sit down with my family to watch a tv that is labeled as family entertainment and get boob flashes and erection commercials and then get offended by that, thats not MY "prudishness". Thats me being blindsided and being lied to by those who put this on the air. And thats where me being offended comes in. Im not offended by a boob shot. Im offended by being lied to by the network producers about what the show's content would be and having to explain to my children what the hell they just saw. Yo8u say I should "parent"? Fine. But then allow me to do so by being straight with me about what my family is about to watch so I can properly make the decision to "change the channel if I dont like it".

[jad1]

I heard recently, that the vocabulary of the average high school graduate these days is around 1,000 words, and it was close to 8,000 forty years ago. The influence of tv and the widespread use of obscenities were mentioned as factors.  It sometimes seems like everywhere, in any situation (almost always inappropriate) the response to anything is "F-you" or "This Su*ks" or some such.

 

Someone mentioned "Reality" shows - nice stuff - let's make everything in-your-face and confrontational.  If someone dropped a coin and I picked it up to return to them, I would not be surprised if I was accused of theft, sworn at profusely, and threatened with violence.

 

So "express yourself" - enjoy your freedom - but don't be surprised if in the future, your society is something akin to that depicted in the movie, "Blade Runner".

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High schoolers only know 1,000 words? I doubt it, Coco the sign-language gorilla knows almost that many.

 

I don't have any stats on how many words a high schooler uses, but since college enrollment for high schoolers is at an all time high, I doubt the situation of our young people is as dire as you make it.

 

And from my personal experience, the many times I've returned a dropped item to its owner I've gotten a thank you, not an accusation. Maybe you should try it sometime, it's a good feeling.

 

Personal expression leads to blade runner? Yeah, right. This country thrives on the exchange of opinions and ideas. Any attempt to stiffle this exchange weakens the country, it doesn't protect it.

 

I find it ironic that many stations that didn't show Private Ryan showed 'Return to Mayberry' instead. Unfortunately too many of us don't realize that Mayberry was a fictional place.

[stuckincincy]

High schoolers only know 1,000 words?  I doubt it, Coco the sign-language gorilla knows almost that many.

 

I don't have any stats on how many words a high schooler uses, but since college enrollment for high schoolers is at an all time high, I doubt the situation of our young people is as dire as you make it.

 

And from my personal experience, the many times I've returned a dropped item to its owner I've gotten a thank you, not an accusation.  Maybe you should try it sometime, it's a good feeling.

 

Personal expression leads to blade runner?  Yeah, right.  This country thrives on the exchange of opinions and ideas.  Any attempt to stiffle this exchange weakens the country, it doesn't protect it.

 

I find it ironic that many stations that didn't show Private Ryan showed 'Return to Mayberry' instead.  Unfortunately too many of us don't realize that Mayberry was a fictional place.

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If I am correctly informed, remedial education is quite prevalent for incoming freshmen. We have seen article after article on cheating, grade inflation, honor roll status by quota, hoards of valedictorians and so forth. There are web sites where people discuss which college to go to based not on value of education, but where it is easiest to get an "A".

 

Do not paint me as an ogre. I was making a point. And btw, if I understand your view, where do you get off telling me what to try? You stifle me, and then lecture me on stifling.

 

What do you think about the pc atmosphere, the so-called "hate laws", the endless litigation at the slightest offense? The finding fault at the atomic level perpetrated upon politicians? Stifling? The violent and purile lyrics of a fair portion of modern popular music?

 

And it seems presumptuous to state that viewers do not realize that "Mayberry" is fictional. Possibly elitist or arrogant. See also the waning of the Democratic Party.

 

Enjoy your Brave New World...pax vobiscum.

[silvermike]

Okay, these things I think. And I'll preface this by saying I'm a liberal, so take that for what it's worth.

 

1.) Decency/Obsenity laws need to be rethought pretty seriously in this country. We're extremely prudish (legally) about sex and curse words, but violence is pretty much OK. The regulations on naughty language have got to go - it's ridiculous that you can see somebody get shot or watch Britney gyrate in panties, but not be able to hear the word "sh-it" or "fu-ck." You can watch Jay-Z get shot in the 99 problems video, but they bleep out "gat." Um..OK.

 

Then beyond that, I think it's time we started giving kids a little more credit for being discerning consumers and parents a little more credit for being able to control their kids. I knew what the f-word meant at 5 or 6, thought it was funny, and basically grew up normal. Oh, except for that one killing spree, but I was one pissed-off 7 year old after Super Bowl XXV. If you don't want your kids to watch Howard Stern, don't let'em. Buy a V-Chip and block it out, the technology's easily there for channels to mark their programming as unsuitable and get picked off by a monitor. But if you don't like that, don't own a damn TV. The rest of us shouldn't suffer because you're scared. I'm not advocating for porno on network TV, but I think we can relax a little bit.

 

Free speech is an important value in this country, and we really believe it - it's part of what makes this the best country in the world. But we've gotta be more ready to trust our citizens with some things we might not like. And this goes for the PC crap as well as sex and violence. If ABC wanted to show even "Birth of a Nation" or something, well, that's their problem. I wouldn't watch it, and I'd boycott their advertisers. Lots of people would, and they wouldn't show it. It's called the free market, and it's wonderfully capable of creating what people want.

 

Janet Jackson, on the other hand, broke out of that. Now, it was legitimately a mistake, I think, so that tempers it somewhat. But it was still NOT part of the deal, and you couldn't prevent it from getting into your home unexpected. But it wasn't CBS's fault (or whoever). It was the performer's fault, it was the NFL's fault, and it was MTV's fault. The fine shouldn't go to the affiliates, it should be passed along to the people who broke the deal.

[Dan Gross]

2. Those of you who think Bush and Michael Powell (and Ashcroft??!!??) are the reason why things are the way they are need to wake up and get some historical perspective. The FCC has imposed guidelines for decency and has enforced them to one degree or another since before Powell was BORN. And saying that encorfement of these laws is some sort of Republican cabal is just another beyond dumb knee-jerk "Bush bad" reaction by those who also probably believe what Michael Moore says and that there was no Rosen at the Pentagon on 9/11. Before last year's SB and the millions of complaints that followed, where were these accusations?

No something has changed in the way they enforce. They have decreed that the F-Word falls under the "profane" requirements for violations of 18 USC Section 1864, after an appeal. They used that opportunity to "serve notice" that they will crack down on this in the future: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/atta...OC-245133A1.pdf

Order (very long) here:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/atta...FCC-04-43A1.pdf

 

3. The idea that anything should be shown on TV and "If I dont like it, turn the set off" is a cop out. If I sit down with my family to watch a tv that is labeled as family entertainment and get boob flashes and erection commercials and then get offended by that, thats not MY "prudishness". Thats me being blindsided and being lied to by those who put this on the air. And thats where me being offended comes in. Im not offended by a boob shot. Im offended by being lied to by the network producers about what the show's content would be and having to explain to my children what the hell they just saw. Yo8u say I should "parent"? Fine. But then allow me to do so by being straight with me about what my family is about to watch so I can properly make the decision to "change the channel if I dont like it".

114197[/snapback]

Do you really honestly think that the stations would have been fined for just the erection commercials? As I mentioned before, there is so much inconsistency in how this was handled. I can point to several commercials that I feel were inappropriate for children that were aired during the Super Bowl (including, as I mentioned on this (or a related) topic, an ad for the movie Van Helsing). Heck, most of the "planned" halftime show could have easily been considered inappropriate (certainly by those who feel their kids are "damaged" by the sight of a human breast). Heck, even the action that lead to the exposure, if the "wardrobe malfunction" hadn't happened, in itself might be considered inappropriate. But yet the furor is raised over a "boob shot" that was hardly visible. So your kids didn't ask "Daddy, why does that guy keep grabbing his pee-pee?" but "Daddy why did they show a naked booby?"

[Fezmid]

Janet Jackson, on the other hand, broke out of that.  ...But it wasn't CBS's fault (or whoever).  It was the performer's fault, it was the NFL's fault, and it was MTV's fault.  The fine shouldn't go to the affiliates, it should be passed along to the people who broke the deal.

 

Why wasn't it CBS' fault? They should have had the show tape delayed by a few seconds so that they could sensor things out. They've been doing that on radio for decades.

 

CW

[stuckincincy]

Okay, these things I think.  And I'll preface this by saying I'm a liberal, so take that for what it's worth.

 

1.)  Decency/Obsenity laws need to be rethought pretty seriously in this country.  We're extremely prudish (legally) about sex and curse words, but violence is pretty much OK.  The regulations on naughty language have got to go - it's ridiculous that you can see somebody get shot or watch Britney gyrate in panties, but not be able to hear the word "sh-it" or "fu-ck."  You can watch Jay-Z get shot in the 99 problems video, but they bleep out "gat."  Um..OK.

 

Then beyond that, I think it's time we started giving kids a little more credit for being discerning consumers and parents a little more credit for being able to control their kids.  I knew what the f-word meant at 5 or 6, thought it was funny, and basically grew up normal.  Oh, except for that one killing spree, but I was one pissed-off 7 year old after Super Bowl XXV.  If you don't want your kids to watch Howard Stern, don't let'em.  Buy a V-Chip and block it out, the technology's easily there for channels to mark their programming as unsuitable and get picked off by a monitor.  But if you don't like that, don't own a damn TV.  The rest of us shouldn't suffer because you're scared.  I'm not advocating for porno on network TV, but I think we can relax a little bit. 

 

Free speech is an important value in this country, and we really believe it - it's part of what makes this the best country in the world.  But we've gotta be more ready to trust our citizens with some things we might not like.  And this goes for the PC crap as well as sex and violence.  If ABC wanted to show even "Birth of a Nation" or something, well, that's their problem.  I wouldn't watch it, and I'd boycott their advertisers.  Lots of people would, and they wouldn't show it.  It's called the free market, and it's wonderfully capable of creating what people want.

 

Janet Jackson, on the other hand, broke out of that.  Now, it was legitimately a mistake, I think, so that tempers it somewhat.  But it was still NOT part of the deal, and you couldn't prevent it from getting into your home unexpected.  But it wasn't CBS's fault (or whoever).  It was the performer's fault, it was the NFL's fault, and it was MTV's fault.  The fine shouldn't go to the affiliates, it should be passed along to the people who broke the deal.

114364[/snapback]

 

 

Why are kids "consumers"? Most of them earn no money, pay no taxation, have little monetary obligation, tend to eat and get housed for free, etc. That immaturity is a force in the marketplace speaks volumes...where are they getting their dough, and why?

[jad1]

If I am correctly informed, remedial education is quite prevalent for incoming freshmen. We have seen article after article on cheating, grade inflation, honor roll status by quota, hoards of valedictorians and so forth. There are web sites where people discuss which college to go to based not on value of education, but where it is easiest to get an "A".

 

I don't know if "remedial" education is prevalent, like you claim. However, since I tutored "remedial" kids in college I know that the programs are there. I also know that the majority of kids who take these classes wind up graduating. And while, there are a minority of kids who try to game and cheat their way through college, the majority of kids there do the the work needed to improve themselves.

 

Do not paint me as an ogre. I was making a point. And btw, if I understand your view, where do you get off telling me what to try? You stifle me, and then lecture me on stifling.

 

I didn't paint you as an ogre, just paranoid. And if you consider advice about trying an act of kindness to be stiffling you, so be it.

 

You're the one claiming "Blade Runner" and "Brave New World," and yet you won't even take the risk of returning an item to a person for fear of retribution. If all society felt the same as you, we would be in trouble.

 

What do you think about the pc atmosphere, the so-called "hate laws", the endless litigation at the slightest offense? The finding fault at the atomic level perpetrated upon politicians? Stifling? The violent and purile lyrics of a fair portion of modern popular music?

 

I think hate laws are BS, which at best, give us a way to tack on a couple of extra years to a scumbag's sentence, and at worst are fodder for politicians to cry wolf.

 

Violent and purile lyrics in music are merely entertainment. In the 1950s, the moralists had problem with Elvis Preseley. In the 60's, it was with the Beatles and hippies; in the 70s it was with satanic rock. Somehow, as a nation, we've survived. People who listen to the music still got married, still love their families, still work hard, still pay their taxes, still obey the laws, and still go to church.

 

And it seems presumptuous to state that viewers do not realize that "Mayberry" is fictional. Possibly elitist or arrogant. See also the waning of the Democratic Party.

 

You claim that high schoolers have a vocabulary of only 1,000 words, can't communicate with out saying suck or f*ck, are poor college students because they take remedial classes, and are more interested in promotion than work.

 

And I'm the one who's arrogant and elitist?

 

Look I believe that as a People, Americans have incredibly strong values; religious or atheist, Republican or Democrat, black or white. I also believe that seeing a naked breast for 3 seconds, or hearing a soldier say !@#$, or listening to the Roots will not shake a person's core values.

 

I don't believe that we have to protect those values by building society that is scrubbed and sanitzed, like Mayberry, for their protection.

 

And by the way, the Democratic party received more votes than it ever has before in this past election. It didn't win, but it's not wanning. There are 10s of millions of people out there (including many Republicans), who believe that the unfettered commerce of ideas and expression make this country stronger, not weaker.