Steely Dan Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I'd REALLY like to hear that argument, especially since they DIDN'T make the playoffs. You can say that but you'd be wrong. Link The Vikings earned their playoff berth and clinched their first division title since 2000 with a 20-19 last-second victory at home over the New York Giants. It is the Vikings first NFC North championship since the division was realigned in 2002. The win also gave Minnesota its first 10-win season since 2000.
ans4e64 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 You can say that but you'd be wrong. Link The Vikings earned their playoff berth and clinched their first division title since 2000 with a 20-19 last-second victory at home over the New York Giants. It is the Vikings first NFC North championship since the division was realigned in 2002. The win also gave Minnesota its first 10-win season since 2000. I know that, but the other poster is talking in relation to QB Jackson. Last year Jackson wasn't their starter, Frerotte was. Jackson came in at the end of the season and sucked it up. The years Jackson actually started, they didn't make the playoffs. And that actually furthers my point. Jackson couldn't take that team to the playoffs, but Frerotte could.
mjohns85 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Would you trade a potential Brad Butler or Nic Harris for a backup QB that is never going to see the field? brad b is serviceable and nic harris hasnt even played a regular season down. i looked at our recent 5th round picks and they are all projects with potential, but none are proven. never see the field? trent gets injured every year. fitz is mediocre at best. like i said in my post, i am not that high on t jack, but at the same time, i am pretty down on every qb on our roster.
ans4e64 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 brad b is serviceable and nic harris hasnt even played a regular season down. i looked at our recent 5th round picks and they are all projects with potential, but none are proven. never see the field? trent gets injured every year. fitz is mediocre at best. like i said in my post, i am not that high on t jack, but at the same time, i am pretty down on every qb on our roster. I guess that's where we disagree. Fitzpatrick has only proved that he can successfully lead the offense on scoring drives this preseason. He knows the offense and runs it very well. I still have my questions about him, but if you're not better than him at this point, I think there's no point to add the extra body. And I don't consider Jackson a better option than Fitz right now.
mjohns85 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I know that, but the other poster is talking in relation to QB Jackson. Last year Jackson wasn't their starter, Frerotte was. Jackson came in at the end of the season and sucked it up. The years Jackson actually started, they didn't make the playoffs. And that actually furthers my point. Jackson couldn't take that team to the playoffs, but Frerotte could. yeah but t jack is young stop acting like he had been there for a decade and wasnt able to lead them to the playoffs. also its not like the vikes had alot of weapons to work with. i believe ad was drafted in 07 and berrian has been there one year i think
ans4e64 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 yeah but t jack is young stop acting like he had been there for a decade and wasnt able to lead them to the playoffs. also its not like the vikes had alot of weapons to work with. i believe ad was drafted in 07 and berrian has been there one year i think He is young, and he does have talent, I guess. I'm just saying I wouldn't trust him over Fitz to run the offense in crunch time. He certainly can develop into a better player, but he's not there right now. If he'd come here as a #3 and develop and not have to go into the game, then I'd listen. But if Trent goes down, and we all know he will, I'd rather have a guy I trust coming into the game.
Steely Dan Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 If the statement is made that Jackson suck because he couldn't cut it in Vikings' superior O, I'd like to see Vikings talent in the offensive skill positions relative to Buffalo. I can make an argument that Vikings made the playoffs, despite not having offensive talent outside Peterson. I'd REALLY like to hear that argument, especially since they DIDN'T make the playoffs. I know that, but the other poster is talking in relation to QB Jackson. Last year Jackson wasn't their starter, Frerotte was. Jackson came in at the end of the season and sucked it up. The years Jackson actually started, they didn't make the playoffs. And that actually furthers my point. Jackson couldn't take that team to the playoffs, but Frerotte could. Well if that was your argument your response is very unclear. JMO
Steely Dan Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 yeah but t jack is young stop acting like he had been there for a decade and wasnt able to lead them to the playoffs. also its not like the vikes had alot of weapons to work with. i believe ad was drafted in 07 and berrian has been there one year i think He was drafted 2006 second round.
ans4e64 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Well if that was your argument your response is very unclear. JMO I'll play along anyway. On offense... their ENTIRE offensive line is better than ours. Their TE is better than ours. Their RB is better than ours. I'd take Percy Harvin in the slot over anyone we throw out there (Reed or Parrish). Seperate topic, but wow, has anyone watched him play so far? Looks like Eddie Royal last year. Bernard Berrian is pretty similar to Lee. Certainly debateable, but he's no slouch. Overall a superior offense.
thebandit27 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I know that, but the other poster is talking in relation to QB Jackson. Last year Jackson wasn't their starter, Frerotte was. Jackson came in at the end of the season and sucked it up. The years Jackson actually started, they didn't make the playoffs. And that actually furthers my point. Jackson couldn't take that team to the playoffs, but Frerotte could. What are you talking about? First off, Jackson started the season as the team's starter, and was replaced due to injury in week 2; then Childress decided to go with Frerotte in week 3. However, in the last 4 games Jackson played in for Minnesota last year, the team went 3-1 (to finish 10-6 and make the playoffs), and here were his numbers: 57/89 (64.0%) for 740 yds (8.3 YPA) with 8 TD passes, 1 INT, and 2 FUM. Average QB rating was 116.6. That's not exactly "sucking it up" by any rational standards. If it is, I can only hope that any Bills QB "sucks it up" that badly this year. Oh, and 3 of those 4 games Jackson "sucked it up" came against playoff teams (Ari, Atl, NYG).
Alphadawg7 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I'm sorry, but if Jackson couldn't find success with an offense like they have in Minnesota, what makes you think he's going to be any better in Buffalo? Just another everyone else's grass is greener than what we have in Buffalo. What Offense exactly in Minnesota? Outside of the running game, the only real weapon is their TE and he is good not great. For a QB you need more than a running game. They have had one of the worst WR corps in the league since they traded Moss and we have one of the best. Berrian is good but isnt a good route runner and drops too many balls. Befinitely not suited to carry the team. Favre may make them better because he is good enough to work with what hes got, but a young QB is never going to develop any consistency with that sorry bunch of WR's...
ans4e64 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 What are you talking about? First off, Jackson started the season as the team's starter, and was replaced due to injury in week 2; then Childress decided to go with Frerotte in week 3. However, in the last 4 games Jackson played in for Minnesota last year, the team went 3-1 (to finish 10-6 and make the playoffs), and here were his numbers: 57/89 (64.0%) for 740 yds (8.3 YPA) with 8 TD passes, 1 INT, and 2 FUM. Average QB rating was 116.6. That's not exactly "sucking it up" by any rational standards. If it is, I can only hope that any Bills QB "sucks it up" that badly this year. Oh, and 3 of those 4 games Jackson "sucked it up" came against playoff teams (Ari, Atl, NYG). Week 17: Giants - The Giants were already comfortably in the playoffs, they had nothing at stake. They played David Carr at QB for Christ's sake. The Vikings could still barely beat them. It helps when Adrian Peterson is running for 67 yard touchdowns and they're kicking 50-something yard field goals as time expires to beat the Giants' second string. Week 16: Falcons -Solid game by Jackson Week 15: Cards -It certainly helps your case as a QB when your RB rushes for 165 yards and sets the franchise record for his 9th 100 yard game in one season. It also helps when your WR runs a punt back for an 82 yard touchdown, and the other team's offense is turning the ball over like it's a hot potato. Week 14: Lions (nuff' said) - Jackson barely played in this one, and it was against the worst team in NFL history, and oh yeah.. Peterson rushed for over 100 yards again. Look, the guy can certainly be solid at times. But in Minnesota, he's not the focal point of the offense. He just has to not make mistakes. In Buffalo, we have a no huddle air attack. The QB is the focal point. I really don't want a guy who is struggling to not make mistakes in one offense, coming in to one where he's gotta be the main guy. I would certainly want him on my team to develop, but I wouldn't want him on the field right away and I wouldn't give up a decent draft pick for him.
GG Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I know that, but the other poster is talking in relation to QB Jackson. Last year Jackson wasn't their starter, Frerotte was. Jackson came in at the end of the season and sucked it up. The years Jackson actually started, they didn't make the playoffs. And that actually furthers my point. Jackson couldn't take that team to the playoffs, but Frerotte could. The other poster never mentioned Jackson making the playoffs, but the Vikings. The point was about Vikings offense and the question still stands, outside Peterson, how exactly is Vikings offense better? Specifically how in the world are Vikings' receiving corps better than Bills'?
PDaDdy Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 IMO Edwards is this/close to being one of the top ten QB's in the league. ROFLOL!!!! Did he get an arm transplant that allows him to throw with some velocity on the ball? I have perhaps been to hard on Edwards. I have thought that he doesn't have the balls to throw down field. The more I think about it he probably just knows his limitations. He has a weak arm and the issue is he can't throw down the field not that he doesn't want to. It will never happen but Travaris has an NFL arm, showed some pocket presence and has some athleticism and "escape-ability".
PDaDdy Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I'd REALLY like to hear that argument, especially since they DIDN'T make the playoffs. Uh dude...the played the Eagles in the wild card game!!!!
PDaDdy Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I know that, but the other poster is talking in relation to QB Jackson. Last year Jackson wasn't their starter, Frerotte was. Jackson came in at the end of the season and sucked it up. The years Jackson actually started, they didn't make the playoffs. And that actually furthers my point. Jackson couldn't take that team to the playoffs, but Frerotte could. Do you mean 2007 his first year as a starter and 2nd year in the league?
PDaDdy Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 What are you talking about? First off, Jackson started the season as the team's starter, and was replaced due to injury in week 2; then Childress decided to go with Frerotte in week 3. However, in the last 4 games Jackson played in for Minnesota last year, the team went 3-1 (to finish 10-6 and make the playoffs), and here were his numbers: 57/89 (64.0%) for 740 yds (8.3 YPA) with 8 TD passes, 1 INT, and 2 FUM. Average QB rating was 116.6. That's not exactly "sucking it up" by any rational standards. If it is, I can only hope that any Bills QB "sucks it up" that badly this year. Oh, and 3 of those 4 games Jackson "sucked it up" came against playoff teams (Ari, Atl, NYG). DUDE...don't bother quoting relevant stats to Trentative apologists. Let's not ruin blind unfounded optimism with real world performance.
H2o Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Is he better than Hamdan ? Probably yes as Tarvaris has starter experience. If it is a cheap deal (i.e. low draft pick), I would get him and let the coaches decide who among Fitz & Jackson is the # 2. Jackson also can make plays moving around in the pocket and running downfield with his excellent speed. He just might be what this teams need if the OL can't pull it together. And comparing him to Losman isn't really fair because Jackson is more accurate and faster than Losman. They do both have a cannon for an arm though. A 6th or 7th round pick for the guy? Sure. Anything more than that? No.
PDaDdy Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Week 17: Giants- The Giants were already comfortably in the playoffs, they had nothing at stake. They played David Carr at QB for Christ's sake. The Vikings could still barely beat them. It helps when Adrian Peterson is running for 67 yard touchdowns and they're kicking 50-something yard field goals as time expires to beat the Giants' second string. Week 16: Falcons -Solid game by Jackson Week 15: Cards -It certainly helps your case as a QB when your RB rushes for 165 yards and sets the franchise record for his 9th 100 yard game in one season. It also helps when your WR runs a punt back for an 82 yard touchdown, and the other team's offense is turning the ball over like it's a hot potato. Week 14: Lions (nuff' said) - Jackson barely played in this one, and it was against the worst team in NFL history, and oh yeah.. Peterson rushed for over 100 yards again. Look, the guy can certainly be solid at times. But in Minnesota, he's not the focal point of the offense. He just has to not make mistakes. In Buffalo, we have a no huddle air attack. The QB is the focal point. I really don't want a guy who is struggling to not make mistakes in one offense, coming in to one where he's gotta be the main guy. I would certainly want him on my team to develop, but I wouldn't want him on the field right away and I wouldn't give up a decent draft pick for him. I guess Marshawn Lynch and Freddie Jackson are just along for the ride as our offense centers around Trent. LOL. We are in some SERIOUS trouble if you think the offense is centered around our QB. Those 11 TDs he put up last year nearly took us to the super bowl!!!!
Alphadawg7 Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 Week 17: Giants- The Giants were already comfortably in the playoffs, they had nothing at stake. They played David Carr at QB for Christ's sake. The Vikings could still barely beat them. It helps when Adrian Peterson is running for 67 yard touchdowns and they're kicking 50-something yard field goals as time expires to beat the Giants' second string. Week 16: Falcons -Solid game by Jackson Week 15: Cards -It certainly helps your case as a QB when your RB rushes for 165 yards and sets the franchise record for his 9th 100 yard game in one season. It also helps when your WR runs a punt back for an 82 yard touchdown, and the other team's offense is turning the ball over like it's a hot potato. Week 14: Lions (nuff' said) - Jackson barely played in this one, and it was against the worst team in NFL history, and oh yeah.. Peterson rushed for over 100 yards again. Look, the guy can certainly be solid at times. But in Minnesota, he's not the focal point of the offense. He just has to not make mistakes. In Buffalo, we have a no huddle air attack. The QB is the focal point. I really don't want a guy who is struggling to not make mistakes in one offense, coming in to one where he's gotta be the main guy. I would certainly want him on my team to develop, but I wouldn't want him on the field right away and I wouldn't give up a decent draft pick for him. Week 17 he still palyed a tough defense... Week 15 - who cares about AP running for 165 yards...you act like a RB rushing for 165 automatically turns the game into an easy day for the QB...not to mention we have one of the best RB tandems in foorball for him here. By the way, all your points were directed at his record yet you ignore his 8-1 TD ratio and his 116 QB rating all the while passing to one of the worst WR corps in football. You do realize thats only 3 TD's fewer than Trent had all of last year? You also realize that is just one TD shy of equaling ALL of Trents TD production in his career right in less than 4 games? All of that by using a WR corp significanly less than ours and playing better teams. Lee is way better than Berrian...Reed is better than any other WR on that team not named Berrian...actually, Reed is a better route runner, blocker and has better hands than Berrian, so the only thing Berrian has on him is speed and big play ability. Besides all that though, the "In Buffalo the QB is the focal point" statement was shocking. Since when is my question? Trent passed for 10 TD's last year in 12.5 games...thats not even one per game. Our running game was what kept us alive last year, not the QB. We have switched to the no huddle to try and get the defense off guard and get Trent back into some quick drops and fire, but he has proven not capable of handling that yet. If we had a competent QB who could move the chains the no huddle would be scrapped.
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