It all starts at the top...

[JohnC]

Richardson's two kids actually just walked away from the franchise, but still the family was interested in keeping it. Sure, both were sons and RW has none, but there not being a plan is inexcusable. Even RW's good friend Lamar Hunt had a plan for after he passed. Owners simply have too much to be concerned with and cannot give enough attention to personnel.

 

I have to agree with everything else there. The record since the merger is not good, with only 13 playoff appearances in 39 seasons. This story of the Bills is ongoing, but I have this sense that it won't end well. I sure hope the Bills are around for many more years, but nonagenarian owners with no succession plan worry me.

 

Your comment about the sons gives a false impression that they walked away from the franchise. That is somewhat misleading. One son was head of the stadium operations and the other son had a high position in the organization. Both left their positions to work within the ownership group. I suspect that they changed their roles because their father, the princpal owner, had a heart transplant, is not in the best of health.

 

You made the point that Ralph Wilson had no plan to make arrangements for the team when he passes. His estate plan is clearly stated in his will. He instructed that the team will be auctioned off to the highest bidder. There is no home town discount. When he was asked if he would pass the team to his wife he emphatically stated absolutely not. When Tom Golisano made some comments indicating an interest in buying the team to keep it in western NY Golisano was told by the Wilson group to mind his own business. When Jim Kelly went public that he had a group willing to buy the team, Kelly was called in by the organization and told in no uncertain terms to mind his own business.

 

Whether the Bills stay in the Buffalo area when he passes is no concern to Ralph Wilson. His only concern is to maximze the return to his estate when he passes. That is the way he wants it, and that is the way it is going to be.

[JohnC]

I will stand by what I was told and what I believe, nothing changes until Ralph is no longer owner.

 

DarthIce, Ralph is Ralph. There should be little expectation for a 90 yr old man who has owned an organization for half a century to change what he has been doing all along. From Ralph's perspective his way of doing things has been very profitable for him. So why change?

[DarthICE]

Your comment about the sons gives a false impression that they walked away from the franchise. That is somewhat misleading. One son was head of the stadium operations and the other son had a high position in the organization. Both left their positions to work within the ownership group. I suspect that they changed their roles because their father, the princpal owner, had a heart transplant, is not in the best of health.

 

You made the point that Ralph Wilson had no plan to make arrangements for the team when he passes. His estate plan is clearly stated in his will. He instructed that the team will be auctioned off to the highest bidder. There is no home town discount. When he was asked if he would pass the team to his wife he emphatically stated absolutely not. When Tom Golisano made some comments indicating an interest in buying the team to keep it in western NY Golisano was told by the Wilson group to mind his own business. When Jim Kelly went public that he had a group willing to buy the team, Kelly was called in by the organization and told in no uncertain terms to mind his own business.

 

Whether the Bills stay in the Buffalo area when he passes is no concern to Ralph Wilson. His only concern is to maximze the return to his estate when he passes. That is the way he wants it, and that is the way it is going to be.

 

I really wish more fans would get that. Ralph does not care about the plans of this team or what happens to it when he dies. It further proves he is only about the money and always has been. Win, lose he puts the cheapest product on the field, you can see this in his hirings.

 

As for as the Organization calling Kelly and telling him to mind his own business, maybe they should heed their own advice? Last I checked this is America and if Jim wants to hold press to say he is putting a group together to buy the team when the time comes, he has every right to. It is more than apparent the team's future means more to Jim and others than it does to the Wilson family. And for the record, Wilson or no Wilson, the TEAM is all we fans give a damn about.

[DarthICE]

DarthIce, Ralph is Ralph. There should be little expectation for a 90 yr old man who has owned an organization for half a century to change what he has been doing all along. From Ralph's perspective his way of doing things has been very profitable for him. So why change?

 

I agreed with your post below and fully agree with this one. I asked this simple question to which no one answered. If you know your fan base will sell out the stadium regardless of the crap team you put on the field, what motivation do you have to actually spend money to improve it? None. Western New Yorkers are scared of the team moving. I keep hearing 'I would rather have a crappy team than not have one at all' Well, Ralph knows that.

 

12th in operating profit last year at something like 39.5 million, but we can't hire a good GM or Coaching staff? Nothing changes till Ralph is no longer owner. Meaning....this team will NOT get better till he is no longer owner.

[Lori]

Your comment about the sons gives a false impression that they walked away from the franchise. That is somewhat misleading. One son was head of the stadium operations and the other son had a high position in the organization. Both left their positions to work within the ownership group. I suspect that they changed their roles because their father, the princpal owner, had a heart transplant, is not in the best of health.

 

You made the point that Ralph Wilson had no plan to make arrangements for the team when he passes. His estate plan is clearly stated in his will. He instructed that the team will be auctioned off to the highest bidder. There is no home town discount. When he was asked if he would pass the team to his wife he emphatically stated absolutely not. When Tom Golisano made some comments indicating an interest in buying the team to keep it in western NY Golisano was told by the Wilson group to mind his own business. When Jim Kelly went public that he had a group willing to buy the team, Kelly was called in by the organization and told in no uncertain terms to mind his own business.

 

Whether the Bills stay in the Buffalo area when he passes is no concern to Ralph Wilson. His only concern is to maximze the return to his estate when he passes. That is the way he wants it, and that is the way it is going to be.

You're correct -- the Richardson sons did not walk away. They were TOLD to leave:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/121/story/922169.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/panthers/story/924223.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/408/story/924218.html

[jwws9999]

I agreed with your post below and fully agree with this one. I asked this simple question to which no one answered. If you know your fan base will sell out the stadium regardless of the crap team you put on the field, what motivation do you have to actually spend money to improve it? None. Western New Yorkers are scared of the team moving. I keep hearing 'I would rather have a crappy team than not have one at all' Well, Ralph knows that.

 

12th in operating profit last year at something like 39.5 million, but we can't hire a good GM or Coaching staff? Nothing changes till Ralph is no longer owner. Meaning....this team will NOT get better till he is no longer owner.

 

and now that he's weasaled his way into the HOF, there's even less motivation

[ThereIsNoDog]

You're correct -- the Richardson sons did not walk away. They were TOLD to leave:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/121/story/922169.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/panthers/story/924223.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/408/story/924218.html

Don't let facts get in the way of JohnC's history revision.

[JohnC]

You're correct -- the Richardson sons did not walk away. They were TOLD to leave:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/121/story/922169.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/panthers/story/924223.html

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/408/story/924218.html

 

Lori, Thanks for the links. It gave a completely different view on what happened within the organization from what I read in a DC newspaper. It seems that not only were they told to walk the plank, but they were also given encouragement to continue on with a forceful shove.

[JohnC]

Don't let facts get in the way of JohnC's history revision.

 

I got a different version from a DC newspaper. The Carolina papers gave a fuller account of what happened there. When I'm in error I will admit it. I have no problem doing so. I appreciated the information she provided in this instance.

[Delete This Account]

I agreed with your post below and fully agree with this one. I asked this simple question to which no one answered. If you know your fan base will sell out the stadium regardless of the crap team you put on the field, what motivation do you have to actually spend money to improve it? None. Western New Yorkers are scared of the team moving. I keep hearing 'I would rather have a crappy team than not have one at all' Well, Ralph knows that.

 

12th in operating profit last year at something like 39.5 million, but we can't hire a good GM or Coaching staff? Nothing changes till Ralph is no longer owner. Meaning....this team will NOT get better till he is no longer owner.

the reason no one answered your question is because it was a self-serving question, as in: if you were thirsty, would you consider drinking a glass of water? well, sure!

and then you proceed to answer your own question as if proving some marvelous and insightful point.

from whom do you keep hearing that Bills fans would rather have a crappy team than have not at all? c'mon.

 

and you can't get off saying we'll agree to disagree, when you fail to provide any quantifiable points -- beyond supposition, phantom posts from yesteryear that may or may not exist, and blind repetitive rhetoric that nothing will change until he's no longer owner.

 

these are all unenlightening comments and include more questionable speculation in regards to Golisano being told to mind his own business. that was not the case, when considering the two met cordially afterwards on several occasions.

and won't spend money? speaking of Golisano, how's that Sabres team doing without Briere and Drury? the Bills, by comparison, have done far more in securing their top talent and adding players, from Lee Evans, to T.O. to Aaron Schobel ...

now, you can argue all you want whether the Bills overpaid for those players or should have spent so much money on Dockery and Walker. but the argument can't be made that the Bills do not spend money on talent. front office talent, that's another story and open for debate.

what's intriguing is once the Bills announced their "cash-to-the-cap" philosophy, numerous teams followed suit.

 

everybody in every town thinks their town has the worst drivers. and most every sports fan in every city thinks they've got the worst owner. someone's gotta be wrong by process of elimination.

 

jw

[DarthICE]

Lori, Thanks for the links. It gave a completely different view on what happened within the organization from what I read in a DC newspaper. It seems that not only were they told to walk the plank, but they were also given encouragement to continue on with a forceful shove.

 

I have a family member that does the marketing for Bank of America in Charlotte. I am waiting to get more info from them since they have worked closely with the Richardson's

[Lori]

Lori, Thanks for the links. It gave a completely different view on what happened within the organization from what I read in a DC newspaper. It seems that not only were they told to walk the plank, but they were also given encouragement to continue on with a forceful shove.

No prob. When a story breaks, I always check what the local media is saying -- odds are, since they see the team every day, they'll have better sources of inside info. (The Donahoe/Mort connection was an obvious exception ... )

[DarthICE]

No prob. When a story breaks, I always check what the local media is saying -- odds are, since they see the team every day, they'll have better sources of inside info. (The Donahoe/Mort connection was an obvious exception ... )

 

Gantt down there is usually on top of things. I think this first broke on his Twitter.

[Delete This Account]

and now that he's weasaled his way into the HOF, there's even less motivation

righto! weaseled.

with this statement, you pay disrespect not only to Mr. Wilson but to the Hall of Fame voting committee, which has historically done a tremendous job in making the Pro Football Hall of Fame one of the toughest places to be inducted in all of sports. so now everyone's wrong but you.

very good.

 

jw

[DarthICE]

righto! weaseled.

with this statement, you pay disrespect not only to Mr. Wilson but to the Hall of Fame voting committee, which has historically done a tremendous job in making the Pro Football Hall of Fame one of the toughest places to be inducted in all of sports. so now everyone's wrong but you.

very good.

 

jw

 

On another note, I read your article posted 9/2, what do you really make of the allegations of the NFLPA working behind the scenes with the owners? Is this real or musings of a disgruntled employee? Something just doesn't strike me right about her lawsuit.

[SDS]

The problem with the "Ralph is cheap" line of thinking is that you can point to several big spenders across the league and see similar results. So, if spending more money doesn't automatically equate to better results, then it is reasonable not to go down that road.

 

I think the problem is that he, just like countless other owners, haven't historically chosen the best people to run the team.

[Lori]

Gantt down there is usually on top of things. I think this first broke on his Twitter.

.... which I happen to follow.

We had an interesting discussion about Hangartner a while back.

[DarthICE]

The problem with the "Ralph is cheap" line of thinking is that you can point to several big spenders across the league and see similar results. So, if spending more money doesn't automatically equate to better results, then it is reasonable not to go down that road.

 

I think the problem is that he, just like countless other owners, haven't historically chosen the best people to run the team.

 

Agreed. The 'Ralph is cheap' comes from traditionally not paying top dollar for a GM, Coaches etc. Things that actually come out of the operating revenue. Forbes says we made 39.5 in operating profit last year. What if he took say 9 million of that (combined with what he is already paying the current staff) and invested it in say...Ron Wolf and Bill Cowher? (again these are just names).

 

No one can argue the man has been willing to shell out signing bonuses when needed. He spends what he has to with the cap and a little more. I haven't really had an issue with him not fully spending to the cap either. I think picking a singular GM, letting him bring in his own staff, and hiring a proven and somewhat successful Head coach, would do much to improve the morale of the fanbase. I know it would definitely sell more tickets than a TO would Yes I know Tom Donahoe didnt' pan out, but you can't just roll into a shell because of that one instance.

 

I will also agree we as fans have allowed our displeasure to a little to far sometimes, but it's the TEAM we love more than anything. Wilson, not wilson, the fans will be BILLS fans for decades to come if all goes well.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Its makes little sense if you are rejecting the concept of Wilson having significant blame for the hiring of GW and MM because you view TD as the one who made the hire. Do you not agree that:

 

1. A key job requirement of a GM is having the ability to hire a good HC and TD was a Ralph choice who failed twice in picking an HC who could handle the HC job. The results achieved by GW and HC are real world indications that Ralph failed miserably at the job of hiring a GM.

 

2. TD may have done the picking of an HC, but Ralph signs the checks and it is difficult to believe he had nothing to do with the hiring and in fact if he did this is probably evidence of not being involved enough as an owner.

 

3. Another key part of Ralph being an owner is setting up a system that provides appropriate checks and balances for the team. He failed utterly at not having a check and balance for an obvious and human problem TD gas. The HC he hired in PItts ran him out of town. TD seemed to pick HC who along with some good things on his resume also clearly had failings (lack of previous HC chops which seem to lead him to pick a young staff which lacked experience so he could be the top dog with no older hand around.

 

The owner needed to require TD to get some experience around even though TD himself seemed to fear having top notch lieutenants around. In hiring GW he chose a man who was quite beatable if he fought the GM and thus he proved pretty beatable as a coach is as well.

 

Ralph screwed up badly not only in hiring poor HCs (a major if not his major duty to measure the quality of Ralph's success or lack thereof in hiring, but he failed to produce a system which created a good dynamic tension as he had done with the Marchibroda/Marchibroda/Polian groupinng.

 

The issue you seem happy to not consider at all is a clear indicator why Ralph is a nice guy to have as a father figure but lousy as an owner of your team for your team.

You missed one very key comment that Donahoe spoke about, and that was that the fans don't know the sorts of constraints he was placed under when he was trying to hire coaches. To me that remark fully implicates Wilson. (Donahoe answered to no one other than Wilson.) It also casts a shadow on the financial aspects of the Bills organization, suggesting that they are quite reluctant to tender attractive offers to prospects in the coaching ranks. OTOH, Donahoe may have been (read: was to some extent) covering his posterior, but the fact is that the Bills have been near the bottom of the NFL in coaching salaries in recent years. Indeed, I'd say they've only had one big NFL name coaching hire in their 50 year history, Chuck Knox. (Saban had a very brief stint in Boston. Levy was a retread that had failed in Kansas City; many were very skeptical of Levy at first.)

[Delete This Account]

Agreed. The 'Ralph is cheap' comes from traditionally not paying top dollar for a GM, Coaches etc. Things that actually come out of the operating revenue. Forbes says we made 39.5 in operating profit last year. What if he took say 9 million of that (combined with what he is already paying the current staff) and invested it in say...Ron Wolf and Bill Cowher? (again these are just names).

 

No one can argue the man has been willing to shell out signing bonuses when needed. He spends what he has to with the cap and a little more. I haven't really had an issue with him not fully spending to the cap either. I think picking a singular GM, letting him bring in his own staff, and hiring a proven and somewhat successful Head coach, would do much to improve the morale of the fanbase. I know it would definitely sell more tickets than a TO would Yes I know Tom Donahoe didnt' pan out, but you can't just roll into a shell because of that one instance.

 

I will also agree we as fans have allowed our displeasure to a little to far sometimes, but it's the TEAM we love more than anything. Wilson, not wilson, the fans will be BILLS fans for decades to come if all goes well.

you make very valid points, and i think this is all open for debate and discussion.

 

jw

 

ADD: as for my thoughts on Ms. Moran's lawsuit, they're discussed in other thread on this board.