It all starts at the top...

[Adam]

can someone explain to me where all this meddling has happened.

-- in dismissing Wade, Mr. Wilson asked Phillips to fire Ronnie Jones ... i guess the Bills fanbase was all in favor of having Ronnie back.

 

-- not sure if anyone really knows how much Mr. Wilson was offering John Butler, but it's a moot point because according to Ralph, Butler refused to enter into negotiations. "i never got anything definitive from him," Wilson said at the time.

Butler, in response, acknowledged that by saying, "Mr. Wilson, I guess, wanted an answer a lot faster than I was prepared to give one at the time."

and there were reports that Mr. Wilson was offering to double Butler's salary, which was in the $600,000-700,000 range.

 

-- in relinquishing his duties as president by hiring Tom Donahoe, Mr. Wilson allowed Tom to essentially run the show, land Drew Bledsoe in a trade, lure Takeo Spikes in, allow Pat Williams to be let go, draft Mike Williams and J.P. Losman, hire Greg Williams and Mike Mularkey ... it wasn't until the Mularkey-Moulds feud and after Moulds called Mr. Wilson directly, did Mr. Wilson become involved in settling that.

 

-- when Marv hired Dick Jauron, Wilson had his reservations but went with the recommendation of the person he hired to find a coach.

 

-- Mr. Wilson was so meddling that he suggested the Bills might bring back J.P. Losman for one last season even though Mr. Wilson was on the record as not being a big fan.

 

-- Mr. Wilson did meddle in landing T.O., because it was his decision to have Russ go after him. based on all the No. 81 jerseys i saw at training camp, that was a horrible move.

 

it's his team. he's allowed to "meddle," and yet i've encountered little evidence of this.

 

jw

Getting rid of Ronnie Jones was a bad move. The Bills fanbase probably didn't know that he actually is a very good football coach and has forgotten more about the game than they will ever know.

 

Non-football people getting the green light to meddle with things they shouldn't helped get Polian fired.

 

How about the owner giving a hand-shake agreement to Jim Kelly.....did the GM get asked about that one? and all the credibility of making that agreement stand up........

[Delete This Account]

Getting rid of Ronnie Jones was a bad move. The Bills fanbase probably didn't know that he actually is a very good football coach and has forgotten more about the game than they will ever know.

you mean the guy who, last i heard, was coaching high school football in texas?

ok, now it's time to share all the stuff that's being smoked, because this whole thread has entered some delusional state of foolishness. ... really, you're giving me ronnie jones.

 

jw

[ThereIsNoDog]

you mean the guy who, last i heard, was coaching high school football in texas?

ok, now it's time to share all the stuff that's being smoked, because this whole thread has entered some delusional state of foolishness. ... really, you're giving me ronnie jones.

Yes, but I'm sure he's one HELL of a HS football coach. And probably on defense, not ST's.

 

Edit: Just looked him up - he's an assistant coach there, not even a head coach. It didn't say what unit (offense, defense, or ST's) though.

['64 Bills]

Lou Saban was a unique (eccentric) individual. To say that he was peripatetic is an understatement. He was not able to control the volcanic eruptions of his emotions. In hindsight, it was not so much that he quit on the Bills, so much as his querky personality compelled him to move on when he got frustrated. He must have had at least 25 different jobs and 25 different moves in his career. I could understand why Ralph Wilson at first resented Lou Saban walking away from the Bills, but taking a long term view it is obvious that Lou Saban was just DIFFERENT.

 

Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist were instrumental in the Bills winning a couple of championships in the AFL. The right thing to do is to honor their service to this losing organization, even if it included some controversies. But Ralph Wilson is the type of person to hold grudges. He is very petty and doesn't tolerate anyone challenging him, especially if there is an issue over money. No one who has followed the team should be surprised at how Ralph has behaved toward his former employeees.

Jim Kelly was of course a former employee. I often wonder why he seems to feel he has an inside track in regards to buying the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo. Maybe Ralph made him a promise?

[JohnC]

"Masterful?" The reason it happened is because the Chargers picked Eli, but he and dad (and maybe Peyton) wanted nothing to do with SD, since they were a laughingstock at the time. Fortunately they were able to find a willing trade partner in the Giants, which again as I said, doesn't happen anymore with top-5 picks, let alone the top overall pick. And they selected a QB, when they already had a burgeoning talent in Drew Brees, who they let get away for nothing and who it a much better QB than Rivers. There was nothing "masterful" about it.

 

The Bills had the 4th overall pick, in 2002, and the 8th overall pick in 2006, but otherwise haven't picked in the top-10 in the past 10 years. Do you think the Colts would be where they are today without having the first overall pick and getting Manning?

 

I know it was Smith who signed Flutie. But it was Butler who traded away a high first rounder and a large contract for a guy who 1 career start, that he couldn't even finish. Perhaps keeping Smith would have been the better move, but he wasn't going to stay without Butler.

 

The Chargers knew that Eli Manning didn't want to play for them. They also knew that Ernie Acoursi (sic) the GM for the Giants coveted Eli. There was no surprise that the Giants drafted Rivers and eventually swapped him in the deal because the Giants were negotiating with the Chargers prior to the draft. AJ Smith extracted a terrific deal for his team and the Giants got the player they coveted. It worked out for both teams.

 

The Chargers did indeed let Brees go. In the cap environment organizations make deals based as much on contracts as on talent. They decided to go with Rivers. There was no way they were going to keep both players. That strategy has worked out for them and also for the Saints. (By the way in my estimation the three best qbs in the NFL are Peyton, Brady and slightly behind those two exceptional players is Brees.)

 

Butler/AJ Smith have been gone from the western NY team for a decade. Not all draft picks work out. Not all free agent acquisitions work out. Without a doubt the front office for the Chargers had dramatically outperformed the front office for the Bills over the past decade. During this dismal decade for the Bills they have ranked 29 out of 32 for wins. Their record during this decade is 60-84. Their winning percentage for this period of time was .417. Compare that to how the Chargers have performed during the same period?

 

You bring up how fortunate the Colts were in being able to draft Peyton Manning, a certain HOF player. I'm certainly not going to argue that he isn't the primary reason for the Colts having a string of success. But their GM, Bill Polian, the same person who was fired by Ralph Wilson was astute enough to build a quality line and draft a high caliber receiver corps to maximize Peyton's extraordinary abilities. The same GM who was fired by the Bills was also able to hire the right HC in Tony Dungy and still be able to build a good defense. Compare that to Buffalo's personnel decisions for the same period.

 

You can go back on any team and pick out things that didn't work out and highlight those particular transactions. However, the fairest way to judge any organization is to look at the overall body of work. The one indisputable measurement is the team's record over a period of time. Even you would have to conclude that the Bills have been a dismal failure.

[ThereIsNoDog]

The Chargers knew that Eli Manning didn't want to play for them. They also knew that Ernie Acoursi (sic) the GM for the Giants coveted Eli. There was no surprise that the Giants drafted Rivers and eventually swapped him in the deal because the Giants were negotiating with the Chargers prior to the draft. AJ Smith extracted a terrific deal for his team and the Giants got the player they coveted. It worked out for both teams.

 

The Chargers did indeed let Brees go. In the cap environment organizations make deals based as much on contracts as on talent. They decided to go with Rivers. There was no way they were going to keep both players. That strategy has worked out for them and also for the Saints. (By the way in my estimation the three best qbs in the NFL are Peyton, Brady and slightly behind those two exceptional players is Brees.)

 

Butler/AJ Smith have been gone from the western NY team for a decade. Not all draft picks work out. Not all free agent acquisitions work out. Without a doubt the front office for the Chargers had dramatically outperformed the front office for the Bills over the past decade. During this dismal decade for the Bills they have ranked 29 out of 32 for wins. Their record during this decade is 60-84. Their winning percentage for this period of time was .417. Compare that to how the Chargers have performed during the same period?

 

You bring up how fortunate the Colts were in being able to draft Peyton Manning, a certain HOF player. I'm certainly not going to argue that he isn't the primary reason for the Colts having a string of success. But their GM, Bill Polian, the same person who was fired by Ralph Wilson was astute enough to build a quality line and draft a high caliber receiver corps to maximize Peyton's extraordinary abilities. The same GM who was fired by the Bills was also able to hire the right HC in Tony Dungy and still be able to build a good defense. Compare that to Buffalo's personnel decisions for the same period.

 

You can go back on any team and pick out things that didn't work out and highlight those particular transactions. However, the fairest way to judge any organization is to look at the overall body of work. The one indisputable measurement is the team's record over a period of time. Even you would have to conclude that the Bills have been a dismal failure.

Again, the fact that the Chargers had the first overall pick in the draft, because they were the worst team in the NFL the previous year, is far from "masterful." And they were fortunate that Manning was coming out and that the Giants coveted him. Taking Rivers was a mistake given the way Brees has played and they totally blew that one, but recovered by Rivers being a decent QB.

 

And things go in cycles. The Chargers were a joke for much of the 80's and 90's while the Bills had their run in the 90's.

 

As for the Colts, Polian has done an excellent job. And a lot of that is because of Manning. Without him, they don't have nearly the success. And if only he'd been able to draft a decent NT. The Bills might have won a SB or two.

[Endzone Animal]

Getting rid of Ronnie Jones was a bad move. The Bills fanbase probably didn't know that he actually is a very good football coach and has forgotten more about the game than they will ever know.

 

[BillsVet]

Those organizations run by owners are notorious failures. Oakland, Cincinnati, and Buffalo all feature men who refuse to hire GM's, or have someone inexperienced in personnel. Unfortunately, this is lost on many Bills fans because they do not follow the rest of the league, save for big news like Favre or Vick.

 

Successful clubs like NYG, PHI, SD, IND, PIT, NE, and BAL have a management chain which does not receive significant interference from ownership. Not all are exactly the same, but definitely effective. Why, with it being obvious that their structure is ineffective, does RW insist on doing it his way? Again, it's his call on how to put together a front office, but what he's done since 2006 has not worked.

 

It is amazing that a 91 year old man is running a NFL franchise. As sharp as RW is, that's not a comforting thought. It's a younger man's game, especially in the front office. Arthur Blank and former Dolphins majority owner Wayne Huizenga did not take control when their franchises sank-they found better front office people and let them do their thing.

[DarthICE]

Bills Vet, look at Carolina. Jerry Richardson has been going through health issues so his son is more involved. There is a plan in place should he die or can't run the team any longer. Ralph has no such plan, just leave it to his wife to sell when he dies. Also they have a clear cut GM in Hurney that runs the team, Jerry pretty much stays out of it. John Fox is allowed to coach that team as he sees fit. More often than not, they are successful.

 

Let's bottom line this, there are those that will back Wilson no matter what, whatever he says is Gospel and there is nothing else to it. Ralph says it, its good enough for them and that is it as for as these people are concerned. Then there are those that have followed this team closely, listened to AJ Smith, John Butler, Tom Donahoe etal about how this is really ran behind the scenes and these reports differ greatly from what Ralph says. All have made mistakes but when you have person after person after person tell the same tale of what it is like to work under somone...there comes time when you gotta start believing.

 

The facts are this hasn't been a winning organization under Wilson's ownership.17 winning seasons out of 49. Only 8 teams have a worse winning %. Most of those winning seasons can be attributed to Bill Polian who he lucked into. He hired the GM's and ok'ed the coaching hires. He has kept the personnel men here in place that have put the so called talent on the field. In the end, it is all on him and there is no getting around it. YES he might have had a problem when he turned things over to Donahoe, but one bad time isn't an excuse to go in a shell and refuse to hire a quality, proven GM and pay the going rate for a quality, proven HC.

 

I will stand by what I was told and what I believe, nothing changes until Ralph is no longer owner.

[BillsVet]

Bills Vet, look at Carolina. Jerry Richardson has been going through health issues so his son is more involved. There is a plan in place should he die or can't run the team any longer. Ralph has no such plan, just leave it to his wife to sell when he dies. Also they have a clear cut GM in Hurney that runs the team, Jerry pretty much stays out of it. John Fox is allowed to coach that team as he sees fit. More often than not, they are successful.

 

Let's bottom line this, there are those that will back Wilson no matter what, whatever he says is Gospel and there is nothing else to it. Ralph says it, its good enough for them and that is it as for as these people are concerned. Then there are those that have followed this team closely, listened to AJ Smith, John Butler, Tom Donahoe etal about how this is really ran behind the scenes and these reports differ greatly from what Ralph says. All have made mistakes but when you have person after person after person tell the same tale of what it is like to work under somone...there comes time when you gotta start believing.

 

The facts are this hasn't been a winning organization under Wilson's ownership.17 winning seasons out of 49. Only 8 teams have a worse winning %. Most of those winning seasons can be attributed to Bill Polian who he lucked into. He hired the GM's and ok'ed the coaching hires. He has kept the personnel men here in place that have put the so called talent on the field. In the end, it is all on him and there is no getting around it. YES he might have had a problem when he turned things over to Donahoe, but one bad time isn't an excuse to go in a shell and refuse to hire a quality, proven GM and pay the going rate for a quality, proven HC.

 

I will stand by what I was told and what I believe, nothing changes until Ralph is no longer owner.

 

Richardson's two kids actually just walked away from the franchise, but still the family was interested in keeping it. Sure, both were sons and RW has none, but there not being a plan is inexcusable. Even RW's good friend Lamar Hunt had a plan for after he passed. Owners simply have too much to be concerned with and cannot give enough attention to personnel.

 

I have to agree with everything else there. The record since the merger is not good, with only 13 playoff appearances in 39 seasons. This story of the Bills is ongoing, but I have this sense that it won't end well. I sure hope the Bills are around for many more years, but nonagenarian owners with no succession plan worry me.

[Delete This Account]

Bills Vet, look at Carolina. Jerry Richardson has been going through health issues so his son is more involved. There is a plan in place should he die or can't run the team any longer. Ralph has no such plan, just leave it to his wife to sell when he dies. Also they have a clear cut GM in Hurney that runs the team, Jerry pretty much stays out of it. John Fox is allowed to coach that team as he sees fit. More often than not, they are successful.

 

Let's bottom line this, there are those that will back Wilson no matter what, whatever he says is Gospel and there is nothing else to it. Ralph says it, its good enough for them and that is it as for as these people are concerned. Then there are those that have followed this team closely, listened to AJ Smith, John Butler, Tom Donahoe etal about how this is really ran behind the scenes and these reports differ greatly from what Ralph says. All have made mistakes but when you have person after person after person tell the same tale of what it is like to work under somone...there comes time when you gotta start believing.

 

The facts are this hasn't been a winning organization under Wilson's ownership.17 winning seasons out of 49. Only 8 teams have a worse winning %. Most of those winning seasons can be attributed to Bill Polian who he lucked into. He hired the GM's and ok'ed the coaching hires. He has kept the personnel men here in place that have put the so called talent on the field. In the end, it is all on him and there is no getting around it. YES he might have had a problem when he turned things over to Donahoe, but one bad time isn't an excuse to go in a shell and refuse to hire a quality, proven GM and pay the going rate for a quality, proven HC.

 

I will stand by what I was told and what I believe, nothing changes until Ralph is no longer owner.

where are these reports of which you speak of? where are these phantorgasmic quotes from the likes of Smith, Butler and Donahoe? these are news to me. and i've had several long discussions with certain former Bills players who have high regard for Mr. Wilson and hold at least one former executive on your list in great contempt.

please, do come forth with these allegations and substantiate all these claims that you are making ... quotes, stories ... rather than gossip and fear-mongering.

 

you've been really good at throwing mud, but how about catching some?

 

and once again, there is this constant theme of Mr. Wilson is wrong when the outcome is negative and Bill Polian or someone else is praised when the outcome is positive. how can you discount one without the other?

 

and in regards to your final line. when Mr. Wilson is no longer owner, then everything changes. this is not news. but, to that end, you will finally be able to say `i told you so.'

 

jw

 

ADD: and of course you refer to John Fox, the person who was in the running for the head coaching job in Buffalo, but somehow overlooked by Tom Donahoe. i guess that had to be Ralph Wilson's fault, too.

[Maddog69]

i love this.

when the move turns out wrong, it's Ralph Wilson's fault, not John Butler's or Bill Polian's or anyone else's.

i guess it was Mr. Wilson who told Tom Donahoe to not re-sign Pat Williams.

i guess it was Mr. Wilson who told Wade Phillips that the team was out of the playoffs in 2000, or to not cover the kickoff properly against Tennessee a year earlier.

right, meddling: this is an owner who was fined for speaking up for his team after the blown called in New England in the late 90s.

this was the owner who had the forsight to see the 2006 CBA as being wrong.

 

c'mon. all i'm seeing is people cherry-picking negatives and pinning them all on Ralph Wilson.

guess he should've meddled when Donahoe hired Gregg Williams or Mike Mularkey. ...

 

sonofa ...

 

jw

 

 

My biggest problem with Ralph (other than the fact that he has proven year after year that he has no interest in winning except for the year Polians forced him to) is that he refuses to reward the loyalty of the Buffalo Bills fans by doing something to guarantee the Bills future in WNY. He could sign a longterm lease with the city. He could put in a living trust that guarantees the next owner keeps the team in Buffalo. He could put an agreement in place with a local buyer to give them the first right of refusal on the team upon his death. Whatever it may be, I simply find it insulting that he chooses to payback the fans of Buffalo by lining his pockets and holding on to the team like my Grandfather with his drivers license. After all, in the 50 years of mediocrity presided over, the value of the of the franchise went from $25000 to $800,000,000+ and a great deal of that is due to the support and deviotion of the good people of Buffalo. The same people he is basically holding hostage at this point.

 

I think it is great that the team has stayed in Buffalo all these years, but I don't think that they are still here in any way due to Ralph's altruism. They are here because they have had fan support like no other team in the league. In my opinion, Ralph has no ties to Buffalo and would have quickly moved the Bills to greener pastures had there been an opportunity that that would afforded not only a quick payday, but the same longterm stability and support the Bills get here.

 

Ralph needs to step up and guarantee the future of the Bills otherwise there will always be a long list of people who have anger, hatred and disrepect for him.

[DarthICE]

Richardson's two kids actually just walked away from the franchise, but still the family was interested in keeping it. Sure, both were sons and RW has none, but there not being a plan is inexcusable. Even RW's good friend Lamar Hunt had a plan for after he passed. Owners simply have too much to be concerned with and cannot give enough attention to personnel.

 

I have to agree with everything else there. The record since the merger is not good, with only 13 playoff appearances in 39 seasons. This story of the Bills is ongoing, but I have this sense that it won't end well. I sure hope the Bills are around for many more years, but nonagenarian owners with no succession plan worry me.

 

Mark and his brother couldn't get along so Jerry put an end to it is what I am being told.

[DarthICE]

where are these reports of which you speak of? where are these phantorgasmic quotes from the likes of Smith, Butler and Donahoe? these are news to me. and i've had several long discussions with certain former Bills players who have high regard for Mr. Wilson and hold at least one former executive on your list in great contempt.

please, do come forth with these allegations and substantiate all these claims that you are making ... quotes, stories ... rather than gossip and fear-mongering.

 

you've been really good at throwing mud, but how about catching some?

 

and once again, there is this constant theme of Mr. Wilson is wrong when the outcome is negative and Bill Polian or someone else is praised when the outcome is positive. how can you discount one without the other?

 

and in regards to your final line. when Mr. Wilson is no longer owner, then everything changes. this is not news. but, to that end, you will finally be able to say `i told you so.'

 

jw

 

ADD: and of course you refer to John Fox, the person who was in the running for the head coaching job in Buffalo, but somehow overlooked by Tom Donahoe. i guess that had to be Ralph Wilson's fault, too.

 

I will end my discussion with you on this subject with this, most of all I have said has been well publicized in the past. Many here posted links at the time and we have all discussed them at great length the events as they have unfolded over the years. As for the rest, I am repeating what I have been told first hand.

 

You have your opinion of Wilson based on what you have been told and being around the man. I am basing mine on what I have been told and being around former players and personnel as well. You are not going to change your opinion, nor will I change mine.

 

Lastly, being the professional you are I would ask you respect my opinion on the subject as I do yours.

[Lori]

Lou Saban was a unique (eccentric) individual. To say that he was peripatetic is an understatement. He was not able to control the volcanic eruptions of his emotions. In hindsight, it was not so much that he quit on the Bills, so much as his querky personality compelled him to move on when he got frustrated. He must have had at least 25 different jobs and 25 different moves in his career. I could understand why Ralph Wilson at first resented Lou Saban walking away from the Bills, but taking a long term view it is obvious that Lou Saban was just DIFFERENT.

 

Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist were instrumental in the Bills winning a couple of championships in the AFL. The right thing to do is to honor their service to this losing organization, even if it included some controversies. But Ralph Wilson is the type of person to hold grudges. He is very petty and doesn't tolerate anyone challenging him, especially if there is an issue over money. No one who has followed the team should be surprised at how Ralph has behaved toward his former employeees.

Missed this the first time through, saw it when someone else quoted it. Saban and Gilchrist are very different cases: While I have been told that Wilson never forgave Saban for walking out during the 1976 season, I can confirm that Gilchrist has been invited back for every single ceremony honoring the AFL championship teams. For reasons I won't get into, he has chosen not to participate.

[DarthICE]

My biggest problem with Ralph (other than the fact that he has proven year after year that he has no interest in winning except for the year Polians forced him to) is that he refuses to reward the loyalty of the Buffalo Bills fans by doing something to guarantee the Bills future in WNY. He could sign a longterm lease with the city. He could put in a living trust that guarantees the next owner keeps the team in Buffalo. He could put an agreement in place with a local buyer to give them the first right of refusal on the team upon his death. Whatever it may be, I simply find it insulting that he chooses to payback the fans of Buffalo by lining his pockets and holding on to the team like my Grandfather with his drivers license. After all, in the 50 years of mediocrity presided over, the value of the of the franchise went from $25000 to $800,000,000+ and a great deal of that is due to the support and deviotion of the good people of Buffalo. The same people he is basically holding hostage at this point.

 

I think it is great that the team has stayed in Buffalo all these years, but I don't think that they are still here in any way due to Ralph's altruism. They are here because they have had fan support like no other team in the league. In my opinion, Ralph has no ties to Buffalo and would have quickly moved the Bills to greener pastures had there been an opportunity that that would afforded not only a quick payday, but the same longterm stability and support the Bills get here.

 

Ralph needs to step up and guarantee the future of the Bills otherwise there will always be a long list of people who have anger, hatred and disrepect for him.

 

Fans fear the team leaving. I don't. It is very tough to get owner approval these days to move a team. Many factors go into it including the fact we really haven't tapped this market fully yet. The bills made 39 million in profit last year. What if they fielded a competitive team? What if they hired a Qualified and successful GM, HC and assistants? They could easily increase ticket prices, sell naming rights and increase luxury box costs and still sell out every game. The NFL isn't going to just let a team up and move when it has the fan support that this team has.

 

My concern right now is finding another owner. Many Billionaires and multi millionaires took hard hits when the stock market went south. Who can step up right now and own this team. Will they have the pockets to make it successful?

[DarthICE]

Missed this the first time through, saw it when someone else quoted it. Saban and Gilchrist are very different cases: While I have been told that Wilson never forgave Saban for walking out during the 1976 season, I can confirm that Gilchrist has been invited back for every single ceremony honoring the AFL championship teams. For reasons I won't get into, he has chosen not to participate.

 

That's too bad about Gilchrist, he is one of Berman's favorites

[thewildrabbit]

The Chargers knew that Eli Manning didn't want to play for them. They also knew that Ernie Acoursi (sic) the GM for the Giants coveted Eli. There was no surprise that the Giants drafted Rivers and eventually swapped him in the deal because the Giants were negotiating with the Chargers prior to the draft. AJ Smith extracted a terrific deal for his team and the Giants got the player they coveted. It worked out for both teams.

 

The Chargers did indeed let Brees go. In the cap environment organizations make deals based as much on contracts as on talent. They decided to go with Rivers. There was no way they were going to keep both players. That strategy has worked out for them and also for the Saints. (By the way in my estimation the three best qbs in the NFL are Peyton, Brady and slightly behind those two exceptional players is Brees.)

 

Butler/AJ Smith have been gone from the western NY team for a decade. Not all draft picks work out. Not all free agent acquisitions work out. Without a doubt the front office for the Chargers had dramatically outperformed the front office for the Bills over the past decade. During this dismal decade for the Bills they have ranked 29 out of 32 for wins. Their record during this decade is 60-84. Their winning percentage for this period of time was .417. Compare that to how the Chargers have performed during the same period?

 

You bring up how fortunate the Colts were in being able to draft Peyton Manning, a certain HOF player. I'm certainly not going to argue that he isn't the primary reason for the Colts having a string of success. But their GM, Bill Polian, the same person who was fired by Ralph Wilson was astute enough to build a quality line and draft a high caliber receiver corps to maximize Peyton's extraordinary abilities. The same GM who was fired by the Bills was also able to hire the right HC in Tony Dungy and still be able to build a good defense. Compare that to Buffalo's personnel decisions for the same period.

 

You can go back on any team and pick out things that didn't work out and highlight those particular transactions. However, the fairest way to judge any organization is to look at the overall body of work. The one indisputable measurement is the team's record over a period of time. Even you would have to conclude that the Bills have been a dismal failure.

The Chargers let Brees go because they had Philip Rivers behind Brees, 1st Brees was coming off a severe shoulder injury and not many expected him to to recover like he has, Lou Saban in Miami took Culpepper over Brees. 2nd nobody expected Brees to develop into the player he has become, considering his height is only 6ft. 3rd, his height really bothered AJ Smith, its why he drafted Rivers who is Big Bens' size 6'5'' 250 LBS.

 

Eli Manning pulled a John Elway and stated he wouldn't play for the Chargers because they were a losing orginzation previous to that draft. I'd say that AJ Smith has developed into a Bill Polian clone, they guy has an amazing eye for talent. It really is to bad that Wilson didn't realize that AJ was such an astute judge of player talent and kept him to be the Bills GM.

[GrudginglyOptimistic]

right, Ralph Wilson is to blame for Donahoe hiring Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey ... uh, boy.

i'm done.

 

jw

Its makes little sense if you are rejecting the concept of Wilson having significant blame for the hiring of GW and MM because you view TD as the one who made the hire. Do you not agree that:

 

1. A key job requirement of a GM is having the ability to hire a good HC and TD was a Ralph choice who failed twice in picking an HC who could handle the HC job. The results achieved by GW and HC are real world indications that Ralph failed miserably at the job of hiring a GM.

 

2. TD may have done the picking of an HC, but Ralph signs the checks and it is difficult to believe he had nothing to do with the hiring and in fact if he did this is probably evidence of not being involved enough as an owner.

 

3. Another key part of Ralph being an owner is setting up a system that provides appropriate checks and balances for the team. He failed utterly at not having a check and balance for an obvious and human problem TD gas. The HC he hired in PItts ran him out of town. TD seemed to pick HC who along with some good things on his resume also clearly had failings (lack of previous HC chops which seem to lead him to pick a young staff which lacked experience so he could be the top dog with no older hand around.

 

The owner needed to require TD to get some experience around even though TD himself seemed to fear having top notch lieutenants around. In hiring GW he chose a man who was quite beatable if he fought the GM and thus he proved pretty beatable as a coach is as well.

 

Ralph screwed up badly not only in hiring poor HCs (a major if not his major duty to measure the quality of Ralph's success or lack thereof in hiring, but he failed to produce a system which created a good dynamic tension as he had done with the Marchibroda/Marchibroda/Polian groupinng.

 

The issue you seem happy to not consider at all is a clear indicator why Ralph is a nice guy to have as a father figure but lousy as an owner of your team for your team.

[Delete This Account]

Its makes little sense if you are rejecting the concept of Wilson having significant blame for the hiring of GW and MM because you view TD as the one who made the hire. Do you not agree that:

 

1. A key job requirement of a GM is having the ability to hire a good HC and TD was a Ralph choice who failed twice in picking an HC who could handle the HC job. The results achieved by GW and HC are real world indications that Ralph failed miserably at the job of hiring a GM.

 

2. TD may have done the picking of an HC, but Ralph signs the checks and it is difficult to believe he had nothing to do with the hiring and in fact if he did this is probably evidence of not being involved enough as an owner.

 

3. Another key part of Ralph being an owner is setting up a system that provides appropriate checks and balances for the team. He failed utterly at not having a check and balance for an obvious and human problem TD gas. The HC he hired in PItts ran him out of town. TD seemed to pick HC who along with some good things on his resume also clearly had failings (lack of previous HC chops which seem to lead him to pick a young staff which lacked experience so he could be the top dog with no older hand around.

 

The owner needed to require TD to get some experience around even though TD himself seemed to fear having top notch lieutenants around. In hiring GW he chose a man who was quite beatable if he fought the GM and thus he proved pretty beatable as a coach is as well.

 

Ralph screwed up badly not only in hiring poor HCs (a major if not his major duty to measure the quality of Ralph's success or lack thereof in hiring, but he failed to produce a system which created a good dynamic tension as he had done with the Marchibroda/Marchibroda/Polian groupinng.

 

The issue you seem happy to not consider at all is a clear indicator why Ralph is a nice guy to have as a father figure but lousy as an owner of your team for your team.

so, you're saying that Mr. Wilson needed to meddle more. thanks for arguing my point.

 

jw