It all starts at the top...

[Delete This Account]

Didn't expect you to, Mr. Wawrow. Just saying is all.

sorry, that was a little harsh on my end. it's just that i've been second-guessed through most of this thread and am now a little cranky after losing my day off to cover the latest developments at what's becoming crisis central.

again, my apologies.

 

jw

[thewildrabbit]

I think that you understand enough math to know if somebody is willing to pay double what someone else is offering doesn't mean that the original offer was unfair. It just means that the second person is willing to pay double the original price. Doesn't make that person smarter. If Allouettes made Cousineau, a rookie, the highest paid player in the league should also say something that has nothing to do with Buffalo.

 

As if you can have any less credibility in suggesting that Cousineau's problems were bad coaching early in his career. Yet he was a star in CFL. And then was a relative non-factor in Cleveland.

My entire point in posting this was to show that Ralph Wilson chose to hire Stew Barber to represent the Buffalo Bills as the General Manager. His actions were widely known throughout the league and it reflected upon the team.

 

So when I state that Jim Kelly cried on his living room couch in Houston upon learning he had been drafted by the Buffalo Bills, the same team that had refused to match an offer by the CFL to a player a few years earlier, causing said player to shun Buffalo's offer and head north to the CFL.

 

Is it an invention of mine to think that Kelly would rather play for the USFL then for the Buffalo Bills because of the Tom Cousineau incident?

[Sisyphean Bills]

sorry, that was a little harsh on my end. it's just that i've been second-guessed through most of this thread and am now a little cranky after losing my day off to cover the latest developments at what's becoming crisis central.

again, my apologies.

Not necessary. I was ambiguous in my post. To be clear, I wasn't questioning your statements. And, I understand why you might be a bit cranky. All too well.

[Lori]

My entire point in posting this was to show that Ralph Wilson chose to hire Stew Barber to represent the Buffalo Bills as the General Manager. His actions were widely known throughout the league and it reflected upon the team.

 

So when I state that Jim Kelly cried on his living room couch in Houston upon learning he had been drafted by the Buffalo Bills, the same team that had refused to match an offer by the CFL to a player a few years earlier, causing said player to shun Buffalo's offer and head north to the CFL.

 

Is it an invention of mine to think that Kelly would rather play for the USFL then for the Buffalo Bills because of the Tom Cousineau incident?

That's the second time you've posted that, and it made me laugh out loud on both occasions. Jim Kelly is from East Brady, Pa., just down the Allegheny River a ways from me. For all I know, he'd never even BEEN to Houston before signing with the Gamblers.

 

And then there's this:

Sports Illustrated, Feb. 27, 1984Has Anybody Here Seen Kelly?

 

Late last May, Lustig and his partner, A.J. Faigin, were in the Bills' offices ready to sign up Kelly with Buffalo for $2.1 million for four years—only partly guaranteed—when a Bills secretary interrupted the negotiations to say there was a call for Lustig. On the line was Bruce Allen, the general manager of the Blitz, with whom Lustig had also been negotiating. "Hold everything," Allen said. "The USFL will make you an offer you can't refuse."

 

"We were this close to signing with the Bills," says Lustig. "I mean, the next word out of my mouth was going to be 'Yes.' "

 

And while I'm at it, you're wrong on "Black Sunday," too. Smith, Thomas, and Reed were released on Thursday, February 10, 2000.

[spartacus]

Pat was offering a slight home-town discount, though, from what I remember his asking price wasn't too outrageously high to begin with. and i believed he was sincere in his wishes to stay in Buffalo.

I don't know how far negotiations went, but Tom Donahoe was on record as saying he is against signing players over 30 to long-term deals, or something like that.

 

and off Pat went.

 

jw

 

This is the quality of inside info you have access to through your connections to the Bills brass?

 

wow

[Delete This Account]

This is the quality of inside info you have access to through your connections to the Bills brass?

 

wow

your point being ... and please add something constructive while understanding that i am not paid by this board to post here or professionally required to reveal all that i know because i actually get paid by another company to report for them. if you're looking for specifics and want inside stuff, please check the intrawebs because they are full of that, and track down Pat Williams and/or Tom Donahoe if you really must to hash up something that happened 5-6 years ago.

otherwise, i've got more pressing things on my plate, which some people refer to as "the present."

 

jw

 

and i'm still cranky.

[Griswold]

Ah. This thread is full of haters.

 

I'd say it's still Stage 5. I predict Stage 6 by the end of the season.

 

Hate Model

Stage 1: The Haters Gather

Stage 2: The Hate Group Defines Itself

Stage 3: The Hate Group Disparages the Target

Stage 4: The Hate Group Taunts the Target

Stage 5: The Hate Group Attacks the Target Without Weapons

Stage 6: The Hate Group Attacks the Target with Weapons

Stage 7: The Hate Group Destroys the Target

[JohnC]

Pat was offering a slight home-town discount, though, from what I remember his asking price wasn't too outrageously high to begin with. and i believed he was sincere in his wishes to stay in Buffalo.

I don't know how far negotiations went, but Tom Donahoe was on record as saying he is against signing players over 30 to long-term deals, or something like that.

 

and off Pat went.

 

jw

 

John W., Your recollections of the Pat Williams scenario corresponds to my recollections. Pat Williams liked Buffalo. He had a successful car detailing business and was very involved in other community activities. He was very public about his willingness to take a hometown discount.

 

The imperial Tom Donahoe made his low ball offer and was in no mood to negotiate with the player. Pat Williams then signed a good contract with the Vikings and has since played at an all-pro level for them. Pat Williams was a free agent draftee who developed to become a very good player. His talents were eventually used on behalf of another organization. Jason Peters was another free agent draftee who we developed and was traded because of contract conflicts. It is very probable that he will perform at a high level for the Eagles while the Bills continue to have a staffing problem at the LT position.

 

If I recall correctly the prickly and fat Sam Adams replaced Pat Williams. Pat Williams was immensely better and more team oriented than the selfish Adams. It is very safe to conclude that this was another Tom Donahoe miscalculation, among the many others he had.

[Lori]

your point being ... and please add something constructive while understanding that i am not paid by this board to post here or professionally required to reveal all that i know because i actually get paid by another company to report for them. if you're looking for specifics and want inside stuff, please check the intrawebs because they are full of that, and track down Pat Williams and/or Tom Donahoe if you really must to hash up something that happened 5-6 years ago.

otherwise, i've got more pressing things on my plate, which some people refer to as "the present."

 

jw

 

and i'm still cranky.

After yesterday's fun and frivolity, I don't blame you.

 

For the record, folks: both Mr. Wawrow of The Associated Press and Mr. Graham of ESPN have chosen to post here of their own free will, because they apparently enjoy interacting with fans of the team they cover. (After reading some of the shots taken at John in this thread, I do wonder about that decision at times ...) In return, they receive nothing but the gratitude of those of us who appreciate their efforts to keep us informed of the latest developments at One Bills Drive.

[Guest dog14787]

After yesterday's fun and frivolity, I don't blame you.

 

For the record, folks: both Mr. Wawrow of The Associated Press and Mr. Graham of ESPN have chosen to post here of their own free will, because they apparently enjoy interacting with fans of the team they cover. (After reading some of the shots taken at John in this thread, I do wonder about that decision at times ...) In return, they receive nothing but the gratitude of those of us who appreciate their efforts to keep us informed of the latest developments at One Bills Drive.

 

 

Warrow , Graham along with you Lori are big reasons why this forum is extra special and I for one appreciate everything you guys do to make this the most on the spot, accurate, and entertaining sports forum available.

 

Thanks

[Delete This Account]

John W., Your recollections of the Pat Williams scenario corresponds to my recollections. Pat Williams liked Buffalo. He had a successful car detailing business and was very involved in other community activities. He was very public about his willingness to take a hometown discount.

 

The imperial Tom Donahoe made his low ball offer and was in no mood to negotiate with the player. Pat Williams then signed a good contract with the Vikings and has since played at an all-pro level for them. Pat Williams was a free agent draftee who developed to become a very good player. His talents were eventually used on behalf of another organization. Jason Peters was another free agent draftee who we developed and was traded because of contract conflicts. It is very probable that he will perform at a high level for the Eagles while the Bills continue to have a staffing problem at the LT position.

 

If I recall correctly the prickly and fat Sam Adams replaced Pat Williams. Pat Williams was immensely better and more team oriented than the selfish Adams. It is very safe to conclude that this was another Tom Donahoe miscalculation, among the many others he had.

in my opinion, i don't think Adams' signing was a bad move. the trouble was losing Pat Williams. the Bills front office seemed to miss the fact that it's line wasn't good without two studs in the middle.

for example:

-- line was solid when Pat Williams teamed with Ted Washington.

-- line wasn't solid when Pat didn't have Ted.

-- line was solid when Pat teamed with Sam Adams.

-- line wasn't solid when Sam didn't have Pat.

 

 

jw

 

and thanks Lori, dog. off to the wing fest and then await Bills cuts.

[Mike in Syracuse]

so he works for the media huh, I guess that makes him an expert on everything

 

No, it doesn't make him an expert but it makes him 250 times more informed than some fat loser who has absolutely ZERO sources or insight.

 

But by all means, keep typing and validating the stupidity.

[Mike in Syracuse]

That's the second time you've posted that, and it made me laugh out loud on both occasions. Jim Kelly is from East Brady, Pa., just down the Allegheny River a ways from me. For all I know, he'd never even BEEN to Houston before signing with the Gamblers.

 

And then there's this:

 

 

And while I'm at it, you're wrong on "Black Sunday," too. Smith, Thomas, and Reed were released on Thursday, February 10, 2000.

 

 

There you go again Lori, inserting facts into a thread of insanity and idiocy. Don't you understand, this is the intarweb where everyone with a keyboard and an ISP is an instant "insider" and automatic experts.

 

Those of us who aren't struggling with MASSIVE self esteem issues and aren't self appointed experts sincerely appreciate the input from folks like Tim and John. I just hope troll nation (which this place has become a haven for lately) don't drive them away.

 

As an old schooler going back to the days of Hyper-Bills, I'd fully support you breaking out the ban hammer and sending some of these smacktards on a permanent vacation.

[DarthICE]

JW, for the record I have enjoyed debating with you in this thread. I too hope that you don't allow a handful that can't appreciate what you try to bring to us fans, to run you off the boards.

 

Again, thank you for posting here.

[DarthICE]

No, it doesn't make him an expert but it makes him 250 times more informed than some fat loser who has absolutely ZERO sources or insight.

 

But by all means, keep typing and validating the stupidity.

 

Bravo! Can't agree more

[JohnC]

in my opinion, i don't think Adams' signing was a bad move. the trouble was losing Pat Williams. the Bills front office seemed to miss the fact that it's line wasn't good without two studs in the middle.

for example:

-- line was solid when Pat Williams teamed with Ted Washington.

-- line wasn't solid when Pat didn't have Ted.

-- line was solid when Pat teamed with Sam Adams.

-- line wasn't solid when Sam didn't have Pat.

 

 

jw

 

and thanks Lori, dog. off to the wing fest and then await Bills cuts.

 

John W, As others have stated I enjoy contributions from knowledgeable sources such as you and Lori. I don't always agree with your views, but your insights are well stated and well sourced.

 

If you ever change teams to cover you should be well trained to cover the Raiders. It seems that the Bills have become the Raiders of the East. Both are dysfunctional organizations and both are consistent losers. Another thing they have in common is that both owners cast long shadows on their franchise. I consider that type of influence to be a negative. But there are many people who are more tolerable of persistent mediocrity than I am.

[Delete This Account]

John W, As others have stated I enjoy contributions from knowledgeable sources such as you and Lori. I don't always agree with your views, but your insights are well stated and well sourced.

 

If you ever change teams to cover you should be well trained to cover the Raiders. It seems that the Bills have become the Raiders of the East. Both are dysfunctional organizations and both are consistent losers. Another thing they have in common is that both owners cast long shadows on their franchise. I consider that type of influence to be a negative. But there are many people who are more tolerable of persistent mediocrity than I am.

it might be me, you know. i used to cover the Vancouver Grizzlies. ...

 

jw

[Delete This Account]

since this is becoming a love-fest, let me say one of the main reasons i'm here has a lot to do with the passion and professionalism that Lori brings to this site, along with some very knowledgeable and capable posters, who i won't list in the event they'll take offense or take legal action for feeling libeled.

but i've been reading this site for many years, and have been impressed by the mountain of information -- not all of it correct --and debate -- not all of it fair -- it produces.

 

jw

[JohnC]

it might be me, you know. i used to cover the Vancouver Grizzlies. ...

 

jw

 

John W, If you are told by your bosses that you are being transferred to Pittsburg, don't get too excited. It won't be to cover the Steerlers or the Penquins; it will be to cover the Pirates. You should be able to adapt very quickly because your training in institutional losing is well established with your stint covering the laughable Bills. By the way, the owner of the Pirates is an irredeemable shyster. He takes his share of Major League Baseball money disbursed to teams and instead of investing in the franchise, the intent of the disbursement, he buys down his debt so when he sells the team his debt load is miniscule and his equity is very large.

 

Ralph Wilson couldn't use this type of hustle because he has no debt. He has other ways of belt tightening.

[Thurman#1]

I suppose we're beyond the HOF induction by now so I'll be honest about what I thought of Ralph's speech.

 

I thought when he said something along the lines of, "I just knew I wanted to own one of these football teams," that he sounded like a helpless nerd with a Napoleon complex bolstered by his massive bank account, and that wasn't cool.

 

It just seemed as though he wanted to tie his name to an entity that represented something he will never be: an athletic competitor.

 

--Sigh-- was I just like two decades late in coming to the realizations, or does my insight defy me?

 

 

 

Um, this is different from the other 31 owners ... how? Why do you think that most of us would love to own a football team?