It all starts at the top...

[DarthICE]

What players do you believe the Bills let walk because Ralph was the one who wouldn't pay them/didn't want them back?

 

 

So if he's more interested in making money than winning SB's, why keep the team in Buffalo all these years?

 

Name for me where in the last 15+ years he could move the team to? LA? No way, that city STILL isn't ready. Again you all think it is so easy for a team to just up root and move, its not. Besides NO WHERE ELSE would fans keep selling out a stadium to watch such a crappy product. Only in WNY and ralph knows it.

[ThereIsNoDog]

Name for me where in the last 15+ years he could move the team to? LA? No way, that city STILL isn't ready. Again you all think it is so easy for a team to just up root and move, its not. Besides NO WHERE ELSE would fans keep selling out a stadium to watch such a crappy product. Only in WNY and ralph knows it.

Who said anything about LA? Or it being easy?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The problem with the "Ralph is cheap" line of thinking is that you can point to several big spenders across the league and see similar results. So, if spending more money doesn't automatically equate to better results, then it is reasonable not to go down that road.

 

I think the problem is that he, just like countless other owners, haven't historically chosen the best people to run the team.

 

 

Spending money on players is not necessarily the best way of doing business. Spending money on top-notch coaches and GMs is.

[ThereIsNoDog]

Spending money on players is not necessarily the best way of doing business. Spending money on top-notch coaches and GMs is.

Yup. Just ask Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yup. Just ask Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones.

 

 

Or, in the inverse, Bob Kraft and Pat Bowlen (before the alzheimer's set in).

[ThereIsNoDog]

Or, in the inverse, Bob Kraft and Pat Bowlen (before the alzheimer's set in).

True. Videocameras and circumventing the salary cap are cheaper.

[Delete This Account]

they lay the blame on wilson because it's the truth. your arguments have been reduced to mindless name calling and girly comebacks. Ralph got lucky and fell into a pot of gold, all while building an organization that has lost more than it has won. But like any child, you always think it's someone else's fault, or come up with an excuse. Ralph had several winning systems in the past (Saban, Knox, and Polian), and always managed to screw them up. So keep making whiny excuses for him, while people spend their hard earned money on an inferior product, all because our joke of an owner can't get along with people, or manage his way out of a paper bag

funny, i get to see the games for free and get paid to be here, which i guess makes you the sucker in this equation.

though why you follow this team with an owner you so much dislike is beyond me, which i guess makes you even a bigger sucker.

but please, come back for more, because i'm definitely amused and looking forward to how much lower you can go in further degenerating this thread with your mean-spirited accusations.

 

jw

[billnutinphoenix]

If Ralph would do anything to win he'd pay whatever it took to get a real coach....THERE IS NO SALARY CAP ON GM's or COACHES!!!!

[thewildrabbit]

What players do you believe the Bills let walk because Ralph was the one who wouldn't pay them/didn't want them back?

 

So if he's more interested in making money than winning SB's, why keep the team in Buffalo all these years?

Tom Cousineau ring any bells, he was the Bills first overall draft pick in 79 and signed with the CFL instead, who paid him 2x as much as the Bills offered him.

 

Black Sunday, the Bills let go of Thurman Thomas- Bruce Smith- Andre Reed because they needed to get under the cap, instead of trying to restructure their contracts and keep them in Buffalo, they were forced to move on. Thurman a Dolphin, Smith a Redskin and Reed Denver / Washington.

 

Jim Kelly cried on his living room couch at his home in Houston when he was drafted by Buffalo, why do you suppose he did that? If not for Bill Polian fighting tooth fang and nail to pay Kelly, he would have joined the Raiders.

 

Bruce Smith was low balled by the Bills after his first contract was set to expire, Denver offered the Bills 2 first round draft picks and a ton more money to Smith then the Bills were offering, Smith signed with Denver and would have happily moved on if Polian didn't talk Wilson into matching the offer from Denver.

 

Only Bill Polian and the good lord really know what kind of team the Bills would have had in the late 80's and early 90's if Polian wasn't there to fight with Wilson. Oh Wait,well maybe the late 90's and 2000-2008 teams show that.

 

Jabari Greer- Nate Clements- Pat Williams- Antoine Winfield- Jason Peters -all come to mind the last few years. It almost seems like the Bills are a farm team for the NFL for cornerbacks. The going rate for top corners is more then Wilson wants to pay,lets see if he coughs up the dough to keep Terrance McGee.

[Pylon]

Listening to Ralph's HOF speech, we heard him say "it's all about the great game," that he got involved in promoting the AFL, "not because of the money, but because he loved the game."

 

Any owner who stands pat and watches this team peddle backwards for 10 years is not about 'the love of the game.' If he cared that much about the game, he'd want to see it played the right way. Instead he has a listless coach and lets his talent leave via free agency each year.

 

It's not about the game, it's about the money. With 55K season tickets sold things look pretty good for Ralph in Detroit.

[Delete This Account]

Tom Cousineau ring any bells, he was the Bills first overall draft pick in 79 and signed with the CFL instead, who paid him 2x as much as the Bills offered him.

 

Black Sunday, the Bills let go of Thurman Thomas- Bruce Smith- Andre Reed because they needed to get under the cap, instead of trying to restructure their contracts and keep them in Buffalo, they were forced to move on. Thurman a Dolphin, Smith a Redskin and Reed Denver / Washington.

 

Jim Kelly cried on his living room couch at his home in Houston when he was drafted by Buffalo, why do you suppose he did that? If not for Bill Polian fighting tooth fang and nail to pay Kelly, he would have joined the Raiders.

 

Bruce Smith was low balled by the Bills after his first contract was set to expire, Denver offered the Bills 2 first round draft picks and a ton more money to Smith then the Bills were offering, Smith signed with Denver and would have happily moved on if Polian didn't talk Wilson into matching the offer from Denver.

 

Only Bill Polian and the good lord really know what kind of team the Bills would have had in the late 80's and early 90's if Polian wasn't there to fight with Wilson. Oh Wait,well maybe the late 90's and 2000-2008 teams show that.

 

Jabari Greer- Nate Clements- Pat Williams- Antoine Winfield- Jason Peters -all come to mind the last few years. It almost seems like the Bills are a farm team for the NFL for cornerbacks. The going rate for top corners is more then Wilson wants to pay,lets see if he coughs up the dough to keep Terrance McGee.

there is so much wrong with this post, i don't know where to begin. are you actually aware of why Jim Kelly didn't want to play in Buffalo because he didn't want to play in the cold, and that green bay was another place that wasn't on his list? are you in any way aware of why Pat Williams didn't get re-signed by the Bills after Tom Donahoe said he wasn't interested in re-signing players over 30? did John Butler and the salary cap have anything to do with Black Sunday? were you prepared to pay what Nate Clements earned in free agency?

 

there is so much revisionist history in this thread that you'd swear no one really knew what's gone on?

 

and Lori, you're right. the fiddling has begun and there's absolutely no stopping the Nero player ... the Generation of Swine is upon us and all that's left is to batten down the hatches and pray that some of us are spared, because this thread is speaking in tongues i can no longer comprehend. the degenerates have taken control, and i'm going down for the last time because, alaska, the bartender has suddenly turned up the lights, and last call is upon us.

toronto, here we come.

 

jw

[thewildrabbit]

there is so much wrong with this post, i don't know where to begin. are you actually aware of why Jim Kelly didn't want to play in Buffalo because he didn't want to play in the cold, and that green bay was another place that wasn't on his list? are you in any way aware of why Pat Williams didn't get re-signed by the Bills after Tom Donahoe said he wasn't interested in re-signing players over 30? did John Butler and the salary cap have anything to do with Black Sunday? were you prepared to pay what Nate Clements earned in free agency?

 

there is so much revisionist history in this thread that you'd swear no one really knew what's gone on?

 

and Lori, you're right. the fiddling has begun and there's absolutely no stopping the Nero player ... the Generation of Swine is upon us and all that's left is to batten down the hatches and pray that some of us are spared, because this thread is speaking in tongues i can no longer comprehend. the degenerates have taken control, and i'm going down for the last time because, alaska, the bartender has suddenly turned up the lights, and last call is upon us.

toronto, here we come.

 

jw

 

Yea, the cold was one reason. the Buffalo Bills history for not wanting to pay their players is another.

 

Tom Cousineau ring any bells, he was the Bills first overall draft pick in 79 and signed with the CFL instead, who paid him 2x as much as the Bills offered him.

Ralph Wilson hired an ex Buffalo Bill to be his GM in 1979, Stew Barber. He had a reputation for being hard headed and played hardball with some players. Jim kelly was drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the 1983 draft, for some reason you don't think Kelly could have heard about the Tom Cousineau story just a few years earlier?

http://www.geocities.com/cfl_historical/CousineauTom.htm revisionist history huh...

 

I mentioned the salary cap being the main reason for Black Sunday, other teams found ways around the cap by restructuring contracts with up front cash. Wilson didn't want to do that, so they all were forced to leave Buffalo. Bruce Smith went on to play 4 more years for the Redskins, is there some reason the Redskins could afford to fit Smith under their cap and the Bills couldn't...or wouldn't!

 

Bruce Smith was was almost a Denver Bronco at the end of his first contract, he signed an offer sheet to play for Denver and Buffalo had the right to match that offer, or get 2 first round draft picks. The Bills did indeed match the offer, which was way more then what they had first offered him. From what I remember reading Ralph Wilson wanted the draft picks and Bill Polian fought with him to sign Bruce.

 

Could the Bills have signed Jason Peters...yes. Did they...heck no. They didn't want to pay him the going rate for pro bowl left tackles. The same with all of the players I mentioned, they didn't want to pay them the going rate of what the others teams were willing to pay. Last season Jason Peters was Buffalo's only pro bowl player, and now plays for a different team.

 

If Pat Williams wasn't resigned because he was over 30, then Tom Donahoe was truly retarded, because Williams made the pro bowl 2 years later.However, I don't remember ever reading that. If you have facts that prove otherwise,post them! From what I can remember Pat Williams was let go because he was a free agent and Buffalo didn't want to match what the Vikings offered him.

[jester43]

funny, i get to see the games for free and get paid to be here, which i guess makes you the sucker in this equation.

though why you follow this team with an owner you so much dislike is beyond me, which i guess makes you even a bigger sucker.

not to speak for the dude, but he probably has it in his blood....born, bred, raised, etc...to be a bills fan. therefore you can't help but to follow their fortunes and hope for the best. this was going to be there year i finally switched to direct tv and got sunday ticket, but after the past few weeks i just can't. this team is going to be awful. there have to be better ways to spend my sundays.

 

so yeah, the point is, the last few years DO make you (or me at least) feel like a chump because we are saddled with an owner who serves up garbage year after year and clearly doesn't care. and it's too bad, because hall-of-fame or not, THAT is going to be part of wilson's legacy too. he was a career loser and he didn't care. he's freaking monty burns.

[Delete This Account]

Yea, the cold was one reason. the Buffalo Bills history for not wanting to pay their players is another.

 

Tom Cousineau ring any bells, he was the Bills first overall draft pick in 79 and signed with the CFL instead, who paid him 2x as much as the Bills offered him.

Ralph Wilson hired an ex Buffalo Bill to be his GM in 1979, Stew Barber. He had a reputation for being hard headed and played hardball with some players. Jim kelly was drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the 1983 draft, for some reason you don't think Kelly could have heard about the Tom Cousineau story just a few years earlier?

http://www.geocities.com/cfl_historical/CousineauTom.htm revisionist history huh...

 

I mentioned the salary cap being the main reason for Black Sunday, other teams found ways around the cap by restructuring contracts with up front cash. Wilson didn't want to do that, so they all were forced to leave Buffalo. Bruce Smith went on to play 4 more years for the Redskins, is there some reason the Redskins could afford to fit Smith under their cap and the Bills couldn't...or wouldn't!

 

Bruce Smith was was almost a Denver Bronco at the end of his first contract, he signed an offer sheet to play for Denver and Buffalo had the right to match that offer, or get 2 first round draft picks. The Bills did indeed match the offer, which was way more then what they had first offered him. From what I remember reading Ralph Wilson wanted the draft picks and Bill Polian fought with him to sign Bruce.

 

Could the Bills have signed Jason Peters...yes. Did they...heck no. They didn't want to pay him the going rate for pro bowl left tackles. The same with all of the players I mentioned, they didn't want to pay them the going rate of what the others teams were willing to pay. Last season Jason Peters was Buffalo's only pro bowl player, and now plays for a different team.

 

If Pat Williams wasn't resigned because he was over 30, then Tom Donahoe was truly retarded, because Williams made the pro bowl 2 years later.However, I don't remember ever reading that. If you have facts that prove otherwise,post them! From what I can remember Pat Williams was let go because he was a free agent and Buffalo didn't want to match what the Vikings offered him.

if you don't have the energy to look up facts, then i don't have a reason to post them. stick by your theories and i'll stick with what i've been told by Tom Donahoe, Pat Willliams, Jim Kelly and Ralph Wilson.

 

jw

[GG]

Yea, the cold was one reason. the Buffalo Bills history for not wanting to pay their players is another.

 

Tom Cousineau ring any bells, he was the Bills first overall draft pick in 79 and signed with the CFL instead, who paid him 2x as much as the Bills offered him.

Ralph Wilson hired an ex Buffalo Bill to be his GM in 1979, Stew Barber. He had a reputation for being hard headed and played hardball with some players. Jim kelly was drafted by the Buffalo Bills in the 1983 draft, for some reason you don't think Kelly could have heard about the Tom Cousineau story just a few years earlier?

http://www.geocities.com/cfl_historical/CousineauTom.htm revisionist history huh...

 

I mentioned the salary cap being the main reason for Black Sunday, other teams found ways around the cap by restructuring contracts with up front cash. Wilson didn't want to do that, so they all were forced to leave Buffalo. Bruce Smith went on to play 4 more years for the Redskins, is there some reason the Redskins could afford to fit Smith under their cap and the Bills couldn't...or wouldn't!

 

Bruce Smith was was almost a Denver Bronco at the end of his first contract, he signed an offer sheet to play for Denver and Buffalo had the right to match that offer, or get 2 first round draft picks. The Bills did indeed match the offer, which was way more then what they had first offered him. From what I remember reading Ralph Wilson wanted the draft picks and Bill Polian fought with him to sign Bruce.

 

Could the Bills have signed Jason Peters...yes. Did they...heck no. They didn't want to pay him the going rate for pro bowl left tackles. The same with all of the players I mentioned, they didn't want to pay them the going rate of what the others teams were willing to pay. Last season Jason Peters was Buffalo's only pro bowl player, and now plays for a different team.

 

If Pat Williams wasn't resigned because he was over 30, then Tom Donahoe was truly retarded, because Williams made the pro bowl 2 years later.However, I don't remember ever reading that. If you have facts that prove otherwise,post them! From what I can remember Pat Williams was let go because he was a free agent and Buffalo didn't want to match what the Vikings offered him.

 

Some perspective should be in order. Wilson does have a historic reputation for being cheap, but at the same time, his teams boasted the highest paid players in the league for many years and he did pay up to keep the HoF roster intact in the '90s, and really only lost Wolford to Colts' sliminess.

 

The one thing that is constant with Wilson that you cannot deny is that he demands loyalty out of his players in return for opening up the checkbook. In nearly every case over 50 years, RW refused to sign a player because he felt that the player betrayed the ethos of the Buffalo Bills (ie Ralph Wilson). In most cases in retrospect, Wilson was right.

 

In your examples, it was a godsend that Bills took a hard line with Cousineau, because he was not worth the money that he was asking and what Montreal paid him. In Bruce's case, there were still questions about his work ethic, motivation & extracurriculars that flavored the contract discussions. I don't imagine you remember the four-game suspension? So, you have to excuse the owner for being hesitant to throw a lot of money on a player who hadn't yet lived up to dominant status.

 

There was no way Bills could afford to keep the Big 3, because the ramification on their cap was going to be much different than for any new team signing them.

 

Same with Pat Williams, which was part of a tactical PR campaign by Donahoe to make him the worse of the two key FAs Bills needed to sign. Donahoe preferred Schoebel and fed rumors that Williams was on the downslide.

 

So in conclusion, there are many reasons to hold Wilson accountable for the franchises poor track record, mostly his inability to field and retain competent football managers. But there's no reason to invent things to justify the hatred.

[birdog1960]

funny, i get to see the games for free and get paid to be here, which i guess makes you the sucker in this equation.

though why you follow this team with an owner you so much dislike is beyond me, which i guess makes you even a bigger sucker.

but please, come back for more, because i'm definitely amused and looking forward to how much lower you can go in further degenerating this thread with your mean-spirited accusations.

 

jw

So who pays you to be here? Are you an (pardon the pun) astroturf blogger like they have on the political sites?

[jwws9999]

funny, i get to see the games for free and get paid to be here, which i guess makes you the sucker in this equation.

though why you follow this team with an owner you so much dislike is beyond me, which i guess makes you even a bigger sucker.

but please, come back for more, because i'm definitely amused and looking forward to how much lower you can go in further degenerating this thread with your mean-spirited accusations.

 

jw

 

 

so basically you're saying that because you have a job with a loser organization working for a loser owner, everything is super. you better hope hope ralph lives forever, because when he goes, I doubt working for the buffalo bills is going to look all that great on your resume. i guess you should start thinking about making that "will work for food" sign

[Delete This Account]

So who pays you to be here? Are you an (pardon the pun) astroturf blogger like they have on the political sites?

you're kidding, right?

 

jw

[Delete This Account]

so basically you're saying that because you have a job with a loser organization working for a loser owner, everything is super. you better hope hope ralph lives forever, because when he goes, I doubt working for the buffalo bills is going to look all that great on your resume. i guess you should start thinking about making that "will work for food" sign

wow, you're really good at make wrong assumptions.

 

jw

[DarthICE]

so basically you're saying that because you have a job with a loser organization working for a loser owner, everything is super. you better hope hope ralph lives forever, because when he goes, I doubt working for the buffalo bills is going to look all that great on your resume. i guess you should start thinking about making that "will work for food" sign

 

LMAO wow, you couldn't be further off base. JW is actually very respected in his field of work. Note: the key words here...'in his field of work'.