jwws9999 Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Considering that FatBoy's been out with a 1st-day-of-camp injury for all of camp and preseason, save for a few plays where he sucked out loud, I'd say the trade's looking even better than it did last week - particularly since now we know that (1) to pay that fat POS $11M/year would have been a total waste, and (2) now we know we're gonna need that money and that cap room for a decent QB next season. and you're probably ok with paying schoebel 8 million a year even though he sucks,
RayFinkle Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 and you're probably ok with paying schoebel 8 million a year even though he sucks, Schobel sucks? He was a hell of a player for many years that didn't seek the headlines or act like a jackass. He is starting to get up there in age for a DE and it might be catching up with him. If he can stay halthy this year, 10 sacks would be worth about 8 million in my opinion.
The Senator Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 and you're probably ok with paying schoebel 8 million a year even though he sucks, Did I say that? Strange, but I have no recollection of saying anything like that... Now I have to think back about what I said... No, I could not possibly have said that - the thread's about Peters, isn't it?
Thurman#1 Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 It's common knowledge that the Pro Bowl is a joke. Anyone who thinks that Peters played at a Pro Bowl level last year is either a fool or a Jason Peters homer. Yeah, you're definitely right there. The Pro Bowl means nothing. I mean, just look at the QBs. Warner and Manning started. Everyone knows they suck. The RBs, Peterson, Turner, Portis, Jones, Johnson, Brown, definitely all in the lower half of the league. DTs, Kevin and Pat Williams, Ratliff for the NFC, Haynesworth, Jenkins and Rogers for the AFC. God, these guys are the dregs. I mean, it's pretty obvious that the Bills could beat these guys straight up. Yeah, the Pro Bowl is a joke. I mean, I wouldn't switch one Pro Bowl for one Bills starter, would you? Nah, the Pro Bowl guys are all bottom ten-percenters. Perhaps I have been too subtle here, so I'll spell it out for you. I was being sarcastic. The Pro Bowl means something. You think it is a joke for only one reason, because it interferes momentarily with your hatred for Jason Peters and for anything that implies for even one instant anything positive about him. The Pro Bowl roster is filled with the best players in the league. Anyone who denies this is the joke. Is it perfect? No, because best is subjective. But are almost all of the best players in the league here? Um, yeah.
jwws9999 Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Did I say that? Strange, but I have no recollection of saying anything like that... Now I have to think back about what I said... No, I could not possibly have said that - the thread's about Peters, isn't it? ok sorry, my point is that everyone on this board was so eager to run peters out of town even though shoebel (and kelsay) are representative of what really wrong with this team. ie backup players making big salaries
Thurman#1 Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Sorry but 2006 was a long time ago. If he had played like 2006 and 2007, or even showed that he cared enough, last year, he'd still be in Buffalo. Yeah, a long time ago. Gee, that's deep. Three seasons ago, right? Wow. How about two seasons ago, when he played even better? How long ago was that again? The fact is that every time he has come to training camp, he has played extremely well, and has improved. One year, and one year only, he didn't play up to his own standards. Still the best run blocker on the Bills, and the second best run-blocking LT in the league in his off year. But you're right, he didn't play up to his standards in one year. Because he didn't go to camp. This year he's in camp. Watch out. Yes, that's why he's struggling there. Newsflash. He's not. Played well this weekend. Again, this is way too early to say, because it's preseason. But things look good.
nucci Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 ok sorry, my point is that everyone on this board was so eager to run peters out of town even though shoebel (and kelsay) are representative of what really wrong with this team. ie backup players making big salaries I don't see many here defending Kelsay and to a smaller extent, Schobel.
jwws9999 Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 I don't see many here defending Kelsay and to a smaller extent, Schobel. and i don't see anyone trying to run them out of town the way they did peters
The Senator Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 ok sorry, my point is that everyone on this board was so eager to run peters out of town even though shoebel (and kelsay) are representative of what really wrong with this team. ie backup players making big salaries No problem, but regardless whether you think Schobel, Kelsay, or anyone else is overpaid given their level of play, two wrongs do not make a right - to have paid Peters what he was seeking would have been a HUGE mistake, and most folks here (save for a few blind worshipers who just don't want to admit the guy's a bum because they'd be admitting they were wrong) could already predict the attitude, work ethic, and injury problems that the Eagles are gonna have with the bum. GO BILLSSS!!!!
The Senator Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Yeah, a long time ago. Gee, that's deep. Three seasons ago, right? Wow. How about two seasons ago, when he played even better? How long ago was that again? The fact is that every time he has come to training camp, he has played extremely well, and has improved. One year, and one year only, he didn't play up to his own standards. Still the best run blocker on the Bills, and the second best run-blocking LT in the league in his off year. But you're right, he didn't play up to his standards in one year. Because he didn't go to camp. This year he's in camp. Watch out. Newsflash. He's not. Played well this weekend. Again, this is way too early to say, because it's preseason. But things look good. Ah, the imagination's a wonderful thing - especially one as vivid as yours. But Eagles fans don't have to imagine - they can see what they've gotten for their $60M... link (from August 29, after the Thu nite Eagles/Jags game)
The Senator Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 and i don't see anyone trying to run them out of town the way they did peters Yeah, I wonder why that is? Did you see either of them skipping OTAs, training camp, and preseason while demanding to renegotiate a contract that was redone just one season prior?
ThereIsNoDog Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Then why did a consistent playoff team with a quality owner, front office and coaching staff decide to trade for him and quickly sign him to a lucrative contract? Whose judgment would you trust more: A consistently winning organization or a consistently losing and inept Bills' organization? Why? Are the Eagles infallible when it comes the O-line? What has been their plan with Shawn Andrews having back and mental health problems? What is really stupid is not so much the trading of Peters as much as not having a fallback position to fill in the void with his departure. Completely jumbling the line was nonsensical. Langston Walker is a good RT. But the lumbering player will struggle as a LT. Even he knows it. It would have been better to a acquire a veteran LT and gradually work in Bell. A Mike Gandy type of player is certainly not a long term solution to the most critical spot on the OL, but at least that temporary fix would have been a better course of action to take than taking almost every player on the line out of position. Their plan was to play Walker at LT, while developing Bell. Now it appears they're ready for Bell to start at LT. So to say they had no plan in place is wrong. And even if they didn't have a plan, spending $10M/year on a player who isn't worth it isn't a smart plan.
PDaDdy Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 It's common knowledge that the Pro Bowl is a joke. Anyone who thinks that Peters played at a Pro Bowl level last year is either a fool or a Jason Peters homer. Or an idiot who thinks their opinion is worth more than every coach, player, scout and fan that has a vote in probowl selections!!! Pardon me if I think your opinion on the subject vs theirs is less than worthless. Stop thinking about the Peters situation with your heart and use your head!!! We lost a YOUNG PRO BOWL...there I said it again...PRO BOWL LT talent!!! We didn't pay him what fair market said he was worth. He went to a winning organization who WAS willing to pay him. DEAL WITH IT!!!! Maybe you're a sap that likes to work at a job where you are exceptional but paid half of what you are worth but not me buddy!
PDaDdy Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Why? Are the Eagles infallible when it comes the O-line? What has been their plan with Shawn Andrews having back and mental health problems? Their plan was to play Walker at LT, while developing Bell. Now it appears they're ready for Bell to start at LT. So to say they had no plan in place is wrong. And even if they didn't have a plan, spending $10M/year on a player who isn't worth it isn't a smart plan. That is a possibility. Let me know when Bell is in the starting lineup :yawn:. That being said given how ill suited Walker is for the position that could be sooner than later purely due to how bad Walker is not how good Bell is. Time will tell.
The Senator Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Or an idiot who thinks their opinion is worth more than every coach, player, scout and fan that has a vote in probowl selections!!! Pardon me if I think your opinion on the subject vs theirs is less than worthless. Stop thinking about the Peters situation with your heart and use your head!!! We lost a YOUNG PRO BOWL...there I said it again...PRO BOWL LT talent!!! We didn't pay him what fair market said he was worth. He went to a winning organization who WAS willing to pay him. DEAL WITH IT!!!! Maybe you're a sap that likes to work at a job where you are exceptional but paid half of what you are worth but not me buddy! Well...not quite every coach, player, scout and fan that has a vote in probowl selections... There is one ex-Buffalo Bill - an offensive lineman, no less - who went to Princeton so probably doesn't qualify as an idiot, and also actually happened to play alongside Peters, who not only thinks that Peters selection to last season's Pro Bowl was a freaking joke, but who also thinks that the whole Pro Bowl voting process is a freaking joke... Link - NFL Pro Bowl voting among players should be consistent So pardon me if I think your opinion on the subject vs his is less than worthless.
apuszczalowski Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 How come everyone uses the Pro Bowl to judge Peters worth (the first Pro Bowl he deserved, last year was off of his past play and no other healthy choice) but yet Schoebel is horrible and worthless yet he has played in the Pro Bowl? Pro Bowl and All Star games are jokes, and alot of the time players are named to the game due to their name and past play, its not always about their play that season. As for Peters, so far, he has been disapointing in Philly. He was a great player in Buffalo for a coupleyears, but he is not the greatest LT ever to play the game like the homers want everyone to think, and he isn't the worst LT to play like others want everyone to think. Lets all face facts, Peters was going to sit out again because he wanted a new deal to replace one that he just had renegotiated. The Billswere not willing to renegotiate a deal that they just re did a few years ago without him proving again that his play was worth it. He did not do that last season, and his hold out put a bad taste in the mouth of Bills fans and the front office so they decided that instead of having that distraction again, they would move him and get what they can for him. Jason Peters is replacable, and LT isn't the be all end all position in football like Bill has made everyone believe. Its an important position, but you can win without having the best LT in the game. The Bills were 7-9 with him playing LT, and there were still problems with the QB's getting sacked. Everyone needs to stop overrating Peters and the LT position thinking its impossible to do well without him. Unless he is going to be throwing or catching TD's too, the LT position has not been the problem with the Bills offence. Even with JP playing LT this preseason, the Bills offence would still be struggling
billybob Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 If I were the Bills I would have immediately redone Peters contract after his first pro-bowl probably to 6mil with the sincere promise of revisiting his contract if he made a second pro-bowl. If that happens maybe he doesn't get a hard-ball agent like Parker and we are still one big happy family. I do have questions about Peters longevity if he keeps his weight at the 350+ mark - I don't think he's fat but weight is weight and big men who move fast put tremendous stress on their legs.
ThereIsNoDog Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Yeah, you're definitely right there. The Pro Bowl means nothing. I mean, just look at the QBs. Warner and Manning started. Everyone knows they suck. The RBs, Peterson, Turner, Portis, Jones, Johnson, Brown, definitely all in the lower half of the league. DTs, Kevin and Pat Williams, Ratliff for the NFC, Haynesworth, Jenkins and Rogers for the AFC. God, these guys are the dregs. I mean, it's pretty obvious that the Bills could beat these guys straight up. Yeah, the Pro Bowl is a joke. I mean, I wouldn't switch one Pro Bowl for one Bills starter, would you? Nah, the Pro Bowl guys are all bottom ten-percenters. Perhaps I have been too subtle here, so I'll spell it out for you. I was being sarcastic. The Pro Bowl means something. You think it is a joke for only one reason, because it interferes momentarily with your hatred for Jason Peters and for anything that implies for even one instant anything positive about him. The Pro Bowl roster is filled with the best players in the league. Anyone who denies this is the joke. Is it perfect? No, because best is subjective. But are almost all of the best players in the league here? Um, yeah. Let me retract my "the Pro Bowl is a joke" statement and instead say that while the majority of players who get in deserve it, several do not and get in based on reputation/popularity. Peters was an example of the latter last year.
JohnC Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Why? Are the Eagles infallible when it comes the O-line? What has been their plan with Shawn Andrews having back and mental health problems? Their plan was to play Walker at LT, while developing Bell. Now it appears they're ready for Bell to start at LT. So to say they had no plan in place is wrong. And even if they didn't have a plan, spending $10M/year on a player who isn't worth it isn't a smart plan. Why is it that a winning organization believes that Peters deserves an upper tier contract while the losing organization doesn't? Why is it that the Bills haven't been in the playoffs for 9 consecutive years, this year makes it ten, and the Eagles have been in the NFC Championship game five out of ten years? The Eagles have a more competent owner, GM, coaching staff, scouting staff etc. than the losing Bills have. I have no qualms in trusting the Eagles' judgment in the Peter's matter over the clownish Bills' judgment.
BillsVet Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 As this season devolves, it'll be interesting to see this board transition into highlighting anything Peters does wrong. The guy had a bad 2008 season and according to Football Outsiders, was in the bottom 20 in taking offensive penalties and blown blocks. The worse 2009 becomes, the easier it will be for Bills fans to go after Peters. I suspect Peters will eventually round into form and Philadelphia makes the playoffs.
Recommended Posts