San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 BIlls go 8-8 again and get another nice defensive line player. then they get shannahan, cowher or gruden as a coach... Serious wishful thinking jimmy. No way is Ralph gonna pay $7-8 million per year for a guy who won't even answer his phone calls and receive his input. For the the umpteenth and final time, Ralph will never hire a big money/big name/total control type of coach. Your other takes are pretty good though.
jimmy griffin Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Here is link for you (Dallas News): http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...de.38f0fd2.html I would like to see an average field position stat. I know that exists. 1st in punt return average and 7th in kick return average in the NFL. 2nd in covering kickoffs, but only 23rd covering punts. 14th on defense in yards given up per game. 25th in offensive yards gained per game. I can't find the team statistics for average starting field position last season, but I doubt that the Bills were at the bottom of the list, and in any event there's usually something around 7-8 yards between the best and worst avg. starting field position in the league. It's a ridiculous and unsupportable argument that he had it significantly worse than any or even most other qb's as far as field position goes. The problem with Trent is that he has been hideous against all but the very worst defenses, certainly not that the blame for his performance lays with the defense and special teams.
joey greco Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Excellent, thanks for that link. So starting field position average: STARTING POINT Best: Buffalo, 32.4-yard line Worst: St. Louis, 23.8-yard line So obviously Trent's poor performance had absolutely nothing to do with the poor position he was put in by the defense or special teams. In fact, he had a better spot to start from on average than any other qb in the league and still only produced 10 touchdowns. Thanks for blowing up another excuse for Captain Checkdown.
jimmy griffin Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 there a lot of reasons for trent's poor performance. we know most of those reasons. this chart does seem to demonstrate that trent gets the BEST field position. but this stat might only be based on kicking and STs. as such, we dont factor in the defense(s) getting turnovers (fumbles or interceptions) and allowing QBS to take the ball over inside an opponents 50 yrd line or inside it, etc. when we look at the ravens defense generating turnovers -- one has to beleive flacco gets the reward of good field positions. what are the bills turnover stats for 2007 and 2008? ALSO, how many 4th down stops did they have? and where were those ball exchanges at? these all go to field position. to generalize, i would say that trent has NOT been helped by these possible stats and theories (that seem to have relevance and merit). on the plain ST front/ concept, i agree with you. the bills STs is not hideous -- in fact, it is the BEST for field position (for kicking and returning kicks) Excellent, thanks for that link. So starting field position average: So obviously Trent's poor performance had absolutely nothing to do with the poor position he was put in by the defense or special teams. In fact, he had a better spot to start from on average than any other qb in the league and still only produced 10 touchdowns. Thanks for blowing up another excuse for Captain Checkdown.
PDaDdy Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 there a lot of reasons for trent's poor performance. we know most of those reasons. this chart does seem to demonstrate that trent gets the BEST field position. but this stat might only be based on kicking and STs. as such, we dont factor in the defense(s) getting turnovers (fumbles or interceptions) and allowing QBS to take the ball over inside an opponents 50 yrd line or inside it, etc. when we look at the ravens defense generating turnovers -- one has to beleive flacco gets the reward of good field positions. what are the bills turnover stats for 2007 and 2008? ALSO, how many 4th down stops did they have? and where were those ball exchanges at? these all go to field position. to generalize, i would say that trent has NOT been helped by these possible stats and theories (that seem to have relevance and merit). on the plain ST front/ concept, i agree with you. the bills STs is not hideous -- in fact, it is the BEST for field position (for kicking and returning kicks) uuuuuhhhh...unless I'm missing something doesn't average drive start INCLUDE stops on 4th down, turnovers etc? Or were those stats PURELY based on kicks and punts? Even if they were, aren't you kind of reaching a bit to make another excuse for Trent? You're taking the spotlight off of the fact that HE WAS benefited by the best drive start in the league whether it includes turn overs and stops on 4th or not. Don't shift the focus.
jimmy griffin Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 I agree with you and Joey Greco -- it appears that Trent gets the benifit of the best drive starts. It would help him out if his defense could generate some turnovers inside opponents 50 yard line. young QBs, like Flacco and Ryan seem to benifit from that happening -- and that is logical. the bills defensive turnovers is paltry -- i think. But on the field position for kick returns, agree -- trent gets the best. But the worst, just to play devels advocate, is only 10 yards behind (ie., raiders start at 23, bills at 33 (estimates)). so, big deal, 10 yards. and where are those 4th down and short stops stats? uuuuuhhhh...unless I'm missing something doesn't average drive start INCLUDE stops on 4th down, turnovers etc? Or were those stats PURELY based on kicks and punts? Even if they were, aren't you kind of reaching a bit to make another excuse for Trent? You're taking the spotlight off of the fact that HE WAS benefited by the best drive start in the league whether it includes turn overs and stops on 4th or not. Don't shift the focus.
DrFishfinder Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 7 wins vs. last year's much easier schedule. Regardless of if the Bills have improved or not, their schedule, on paper, is a lot harder than last year's. + same coaching staff as last year. Yeesh.
PDaDdy Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 I agree with you and Joey Greco -- it appears that Trent gets the benifit of the best drive starts. It would help him out if his defense could generate some turnovers inside opponents 50 yard line. young QBs, like Flacco and Ryan seem to benifit from that happening -- and that is logical. the bills defensive turnovers is paltry -- i think. But on the field position for kick returns, agree -- trent gets the best. But the worst, just to play devels advocate, is only 10 yards behind (ie., raiders start at 23, bills at 33 (estimates)). so, big deal, 10 yards. and where are those 4th down and short stops stats? I hear ya. It's not like he's getting an extra half of the field. Top to bottom probably isn't an enormous difference. I am curios though to know if that stat DOES include turnovers and 4th down stops. Stops on fourth probably happen so infrequently they are almost negligible but turn overs can help if they are in the opponents territory. That being said. I really don't believe that that is as much a contributing factor to Flacco's success and to a much lesser extent Matt Ryan. Those guys were first round QB picks with huge arms. I think that and their poise and pocket presence are MUCH larger factors.
DrFishfinder Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Not to get into bed with ESPN or anything, but I had us at 5- 11 after the schedule came out and the coaching staff was retained.
PDaDdy Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Not to get into bed with ESPN or anything, but I had us at 5- 11 after the schedule came out and the coaching staff was retained. Man I am hoping for better but that is a real possibility. Our O-line will be a work in progress but we don't need a lot of time to throw, just enough. If we run the no huddle at a quick enough pace especially after positive plays like I have seen Trent and even more so Fitzpatrick do it will minimize our youthful line's faults. Of course once we get TO playing it might be night and day with 2 legit, dare I say great, WR on the field at the same time. It all comes down to two things. Trent running the no huddle quickly and challenging the defense deep.
DrFishfinder Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Man I am hoping for better but that is a real possibility. Our O-line will be a work in progress but we don't need a lot of time to throw, just enough. If we run the no huddle at a quick enough pace especially after positive plays like I have seen Trent and even more so Fitzpatrick do it will minimize the our youthful line's faults. Of course once we get TO playing it might be night and day with 2 legit, dare I say great, WR on the field at the same time. It all comes down to two things. Trent running the no huddle quickly and challenging the defense deep. TO ought to make the offense better, in spite of Snert, but the D is what worries me the most....and Fewell.
PDaDdy Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 TO ought to make the offense better, in spite of Snert, but the D is what worries me the most....and Fewell. I'm not worried about the D. It is what it is. At worst it should be as good as last year which was 14th overall in scoring and game stats per nfl.com. Not stellar but certainly respectable. Imagine if we get some contribution from the "money pit" Aaron Schobel and Maybin contributes something this year. Heck we could even see guys like Nic Harris and Jarius Byrd getting in there. One thing I have seen this preseason is some turnovers. If we can add that with a little bit of a pass rush top 10 is not impossible. Can't get around it, Trent has to make some BIG strides this year.
Peace Frog Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 My heart tells me 10-6. My head tells me 2-14. Smart money says 7-9.
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