Please - be honest with what '09 will be...

[Koufax]

So do you think our O-Line will be better or worse than last year? My money is on better even with Walker LT and two rookie guards. Maybe I'm wrong and overly optimistic, but I did not think that our line play was very good last year and think that we can approve with Butler at his natural position, two very talented guards (at the easiest position on the line where their physical talent can take over) a better center (not saying a lot), and a big smart slow guy taking over for a talented guy who didn't seem to care.

 

So do you think our D-Line will be better or worse than last year? Hmm...add Maybin and a healthy Schobel, lose nobody. I'm going with better on this one too, and think the two Aarons will offset another year older for Stroud.

 

So from the simplistic trenches only perspective I think we are better than the team that needed to fall on their sword to stumble to a tragic 7-9 (and was probably an 8 or 9 win team realistically), so we are better than what I think was an 8 or 9 win team. I think we are a 9-7 team right now, who can falter and do worse or maybe get lucky and do a little better. The 11-5 Pats* didn't make the playoffs last year, so we could easily come up short even at 9-7, but this is an improved team that has me excited to watch the season and know there is a better chance of a playoff spot than a top 5 pick.

 

But realistically Jauron will probably find a creative way to turn my 9-7 team into a 7-9 team, so I am keeping all of my optimism handy, but not running to Vegas to put down real money.

 

Here's a rather obvious point I'd like to offer as we continue to disect this team through the preseason... and remember, it is the preseason. I so respect the enthusiasm and love that is consistently displayed on this board. It is one of the reasons I am so proud to be a lifelong Bills fan. Even though my family and I live very far away from Buffalo both myself and my kids know the Bills to be our team.

 

Here's my two cents - One key aspect of winning in football at ALL LEVELS is those positions and schemes CLOSET TO THE BALL. Simply stated, if we do not improve in the area at the line of scrimmage we will not improve this year and will continue to struggle in this division. Each of our rivals approach the game with a very physical, tough, punch you in the f'ing mouth attitude and as of yet neither our players, head coach or mgmt embody that attitude or ability. Do we have a few that have it within themselves (Poz, Whitner, Marshawn)? - yes. The bulk of our guys? Average at best, high character, Dick Juron/Marv kind of people... good citizens and great for Wegmans commercials and March of Dimes functions. So what's my point - simply this, please let's all be very honest with what we have here talent-wise before we spend anymore time bashing our Bills to be more than they are capable of for the year.

 

The teams that are regularly successful in the playoffs are the teams that are the most physical. They have depth and talent and grit CLOSEST TO THE BALL. We, as of yet, are not built this way. Couple that with our lack of cohesiveness and leadership in the front office and you have a middle of the road team not positioned to do anymore that in recent year's past.

 

O-Line: the NEW center was a guard, one ROOKIE guard was a center in college, the other ROOKIE guard a tackle, the left tackle is a right tackle, and the right tackle is a guard (I know he played it in college). Not only is everyone on this group either learning or re-learning a new position but two of them are rookies. It is a complete overhaul. It is also one of the few areas during the preseason where you can really get an accurate sneak peek at what you can expect during the regular season. If guys are getting rolled because of poor technique and scheme then that is not something that you can fix during the season with personnel moves - only playcalling. The Green Bay game was a prime example of what I am speaking of... man to man, at the snap, 1st team (key point) players being overwhelmed and beaten - regularly.

 

D-Line: Finished '08 #22 vs Run; T-3rd worst (28th) in sacks @ 24

Kelsay: finished 41st for D-lineman in tackles

41st Chris Kelsay BUF DE 47 tkls 33 solo 14 ast 2.0 sacks 1 FF

Stroud: 48th Marcus Stroud BUF DT 45 tkls 29 solo 16 ast 2.5 sacks 1 ff

Williams (the best of the group!): 16th Kyle Williams BUF DT 55 tkls 37 solo 18 ast 2.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: he actually finished 8th amongst all interior lineman in tkls!

Denney: 58 tkls 40 solo 18 ast 4.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: actually much better than I would have guessed and notably better than Kelsay!?!

Schobel: obviously w the injury the jury is still out on how effective he can be...

Maybin: undersized (250) and young (came out after soph year) but very athletic and raw - great upside

 

Finally, examine the actions of those that we must beat to succeed and move forward. They DO MORE TO IMPROVE consistently that our owner and management are willing to do. This is a fact and it is unfortunate. This team once embodied the attitude and spirit of the hard working people of Western NY - those prodominantly blue-collar people that pay exorbident amounts of money to watch and support them... but that is no longer the case. I have the utmost respect for Ralph and what he has meant to the game and the area but until their is some sense of urgency that is passed down from those between him and the field we will remain - stagnant and average.

 

Guys, I hope I'm wrong. I love this team, its fans and its owner. But neither you or I or even Ralph can control the product on the field on Sundays. Only the players and their coach can do that. So be fair with your assesments - watch other teams. Listen to how successfull coaches address the media - especially after losses or poor performance. I don't doubt our team - I am just to a point as a die-hard fan that I want to be realistic with what I believe this team can achieve. That being said - Dick, feel free to surprise me.

 

Jim Kelly, Thurman, Bruce, Andre, Talley, Bennett and best of all Carwell are not "walking through that door" anymore.

 

Buffalove in KY for ever. Go Bills!

[Koufax]

Overall I do not think we will do as well as last year, since wont have benefit of a fast start, do to the chemestry issues on offensive line...

 

Compared to last year where Walker was at LT in camp and Peters showed up at the last minute, didn't play week 1 and we were shuffling around within the first weeks of the season?

 

Walker does not have the talent or ability of Peters head to head, and could be anywhere from pretty good to pretty bad, but my assessment of this O-Line is that it will be better than last year, and coming out of camp has more continuity and chemistry than we had last year.

[rstencel]

So do you think our O-Line will be better or worse than last year? My money is on better even with Walker LT and two rookie guards. Maybe I'm wrong and overly optimistic, but I did not think that our line play was very good last year and think that we can approve with Butler at his natural position, two very talented guards (at the easiest position on the line where their physical talent can take over) a better center (not saying a lot), and a big smart slow guy taking over for a talented guy who didn't seem to care.

 

So do you think our D-Line will be better or worse than last year? Hmm...add Maybin and a healthy Schobel, lose nobody. I'm going with better on this one too, and think the two Aarons will offset another year older for Stroud.

 

So from the simplistic trenches only perspective I think we are better than the team that needed to fall on their sword to stumble to a tragic 7-9 (and was probably an 8 or 9 win team realistically), so we are better than what I think was an 8 or 9 win team. I think we are a 9-7 team right now, who can falter and do worse or maybe get lucky and do a little better. The 11-5 Pats* didn't make the playoffs last year, so we could easily come up short even at 9-7, but this is an improved team that has me excited to watch the season and know there is a better chance of a playoff spot than a top 5 pick.

 

But realistically Jauron will probably find a creative way to turn my 9-7 team into a 7-9 team, so I am keeping all of my optimism handy, but not running to Vegas to put down real money.

 

I have high hopes for line, but think it will take first half of season for line to gel. Beleive by end of year this line will be pretty good, but think will take till atleast the bye week for them to be able to pick up blitzes consistantly, and a few more games to play to thier potential. Basically worse first 5-8 games, but better after that IMO.

[AF88Bills]

Buffalo is 9 for 9 this decade in getting expectations up and dropping people by the end of the season. We should be able to go into at least one season expecting to win and not just hoping to win.

 

 

OK....expect the Bills to win. Thats within your power.

 

You aint going to change the fact that they've had a bad decade. The team is what it is right now. These threads really get old becuase it's a bunch of people moaning about Jauron, or the O-line, or RW.

 

All I'm saying is you might enjoy things a little more if you just let the season start before you believe everything is going down the tubes. Have a few beers, enjoy those WNY wings, and enjoy the fact that we'll get to see some regular season football in a coupla weeks.

[rstencel]

OK....expect the Bills to win. Thats within your power.

 

You aint going to change the fact that they've had a bad decade. The team is what it is right now. These threads really get old becuase it's a bunch of people moaning about Jauron, or the O-line, or RW.

 

All I'm saying is you might enjoy things a little more if you just let the season start before you believe everything is going down the tubes. Have a few beers, enjoy those WNY wings, and enjoy the fact that we'll get to see some regular season football in a coupla weeks.

 

Curious why your on boards that is discussing team before season, if you dont want to discuss pros/cons and opinions on anything before season?

[BillsVet]

OK....expect the Bills to win. Thats within your power.

 

You aint going to change the fact that they've had a bad decade. The team is what it is right now. These threads really get old becuase it's a bunch of people moaning about Jauron, or the O-line, or RW.

 

All I'm saying is you might enjoy things a little more if you just let the season start before you believe everything is going down the tubes. Have a few beers, enjoy those WNY wings, and enjoy the fact that we'll get to see some regular season football in a coupla weeks.

 

If I was criticizing a team like Pittsburgh, the Giants, or the Colts, that's one thing. Those teams more often than not make the right on and off field decisions. The Bills have defied logic, what with 30 other NFL teams having made the post-season since 2000.

 

I go to the games to be with friends second and watch football first. Perhaps that's revolutionary, but I can't stand to lose. And lately all the team has done is find ways to lose. After 9 years, Bills fans deserve more than hope. They deserve results and doing things the same way may give hope before a season, but it won't produce results in-season.

 

There is no substitute for victory. A wise man once said that.

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

1. if we do not improve in the area at the line of scrimmage we will not improve this year and will continue to struggle in this division.

2. Each of our rivals approach the game with a very physical, tough, punch you in the f'ing mouth attitude and as of yet neither our players, head coach or mgmt embody that attitude or ability.

3. Do we have a few that have it within themselves (Poz, Whitner, Marshawn)? - yes.

4. The bulk of our guys? Average at best, high character, Dick Juron/Marv kind of people... good citizens and great for Wegmans commercials and March of Dimes functions.

 

5. O-Line: the NEW center was a guard, one ROOKIE guard was a center in college, the other ROOKIE guard a tackle, the left tackle is a right tackle, and the right tackle is a guard (I know he played it in college). Not only is everyone on this group either learning or re-learning a new position but two of them are rookies. It is a complete overhaul. It is also one of the few areas during the preseason where you can really get an accurate sneak peek at what you can expect during the regular season.

 

6. D-Line: Finished '08 #22 vs Run; T-3rd worst (28th) in sacks @ 24

Kelsay: finished 41st for D-lineman in tackles

41st Chris Kelsay BUF DE 47 tkls 33 solo 14 ast 2.0 sacks 1 FF

Stroud: 48th Marcus Stroud BUF DT 45 tkls 29 solo 16 ast 2.5 sacks 1 ff

Williams (the best of the group!): 16th Kyle Williams BUF DT 55 tkls 37 solo 18 ast 2.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: he actually finished 8th amongst all interior lineman in tkls!

Denney: 58 tkls 40 solo 18 ast 4.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: actually much better than I would have guessed and notably better than Kelsay!?!

Schobel: obviously w the injury the jury is still out on how effective he can be...

Maybin: undersized (250) and young (came out after soph year) but very athletic and raw - great upside

 

7. I have the utmost respect for Ralph and what he has meant to the game and the area but until their is some sense of urgency that is passed down from those between him and the field we will remain - stagnant and average.

 

Ok, honest? I am gonna break down, what I think, are the key parts.

 

1. The thing that scares me is, the people running this team actually think that we did improve in the trenches. I have not seen anything, except the improvement of some backups, that lead me to believe our Line play will be any better on either side of the ball.

 

2. I have always said that a Football team is a mirror image of their Coach. If a Coach is reserved and conservative, the team will play like that. You speak about ALL LEVELS...I watch guys like Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh, Urban Meyer at Florida and even my old High School Coach...they all have fire in their eyes, and under their ball$. They know they are the best, they know they can beat anybody, and they prepare their team with the same confidence. You see them high-fiving their players, chest bumping them after touchdowns, and gettin' in their faces when they blow an assignment. It's like Dick Jauron is afraid of his troops (that may be too "tough" of a word to use for Bills players), since we never seem ready to fight to win a war. That is how many other teams' players and coaches look at the game of Football. This team is hard to watch and it kills me to watch them get their a$$es handed to them, week in, week out.

 

3. I believe we DO, as you stated above, have a FEW guys on this team who wanna win and can lead this team. I also believe that these players are guys at very important positions on the field. Only problem is, these players are all too young to handle this pressure. Paul Posluzny seems to get it, also seems to be handling it quite fine. Donte Whitner seems to have good intentions. However, he may be trying to hard off the field to lead, and he needs to translate his talk to making plays on the field. Marshawn Lynch is the type of guy who needs to mature and step it up. The way he is dealing with his suspension, saying he will be their "Biggest Cheerleader," tells me is he trying. Trent Edwards says all the right things, but he is just way too soft. I see no toughness. That concussion ruined his confidence, and it will forever (yes, forever), scar him. Well, maybe just until we get some coaches with balls to teach him something.

I think our Veteran leaders are all quality, it just seems like they are too reserved, like their Head Coach. I think Kawika Mitchell, Marcus Stroud, Aaron Schobel, Terrence McGee, Langston Walker, Fred Jackson and Brian Moorman, seem way too soft-spoken. Some almost seem timid or shy. I believe our team is in the hands of our young-guns. It's up to them, and they should learn from listening to and following Terrell Owens. Say what you want, the guy just wants to win. Kawika Mitchell is also a good one, he has been where we want to, and need to, go.

 

4. I hate this high-character garbage. Where does being high-character get you in the NFL? I wouldn't say that Jim Kelly and/or Bruce Smith, were "high-character!" Ralph Wilson seemed to want FOOTBALL players back then, sooo what gives? My bet: damn Dick! Jauron does not want to deal with the so-called "Thugs." He is too laid-back and conservative, no to mention old. I understand wanting SOME guys who will go out and do charity work, but does the WHOLE TEAM really have to be those kind of guys? There is no place for "Gentlemen" on a Football field. I don't want guys on my team who are going to help the opposing players off the ground. Dick Butkus or Joe Greene would step on another player's face to get up after the whistle blew. Ray Lewis is not "high-character," but I would LOVE to have him on my team. Same for Phillip Rivers. Joey Porter. Albert Haynesworth. Randy Moss. Ed Reed. Get my point? The best players are Football guys, not volunteers for the Salvation Army. It all comes down to the Head Coach.

 

5. Eric Wood was a VERY solid pick for the Offensive side of the ball. However, I believe he is best suited to play Center for us, that is where he made his name. I also like this idea because I think your best interior O-Lineman should be your Center, and Wood was not a 1st Round talent for no reason. To me, he is what the city of Buffalo is all about, and he is our best Offensive Lineman prospect in a very long time. Andy Levitre has disappointed me, a lot. He looks like a backup...a very, very weak man. He has been DOMINATED. I am NOT writing him off, I know he needs time to develope, I just cannot believe Trent and our Coaches would trust him. Geoff Hangartner seems to be a push-over. I liked the idea of him when we got him, but he does not look any better than our previous Centers. Brad Butler will probably work out well at Right Tackle. He is tall and has a mean-streak in run blocking. It all falls on Langston Walker at Left Tackle. He just does not seem athletic enough to play the position against the quickest D-Ends. This unit could be the lone reason we do not make the playoffs this year. They look terrible and could take a long time to come together. Bill Parcells came to Miami and rebuilt that Offensive line, and look at what it did for that team last year.

 

6. With the development of Chris Ellis and Copeland Bryan, and some decent signs from John McCargo, the D-Line has improved to an extent. I really like Maybin, I think he is a "Freak," but I think he would be better suited as an Outside Linebacker. He would be BEST as a Pass-Rushing OLB in a 3-4 Defense, which I believe we need to switch to. With Maybin and Schobel/Nic Harris on the outside, and Posluzny and Mitchell on the inside; Stroud in the middle of the D-Line; and Kelsay/Denney/Ellis/Bryan/McCargo/Johnson rotating as the D-Ends; I think we would be better. We would also have next Off-Season to get better talent for that scheme and dump the useless, aka Kelsay. Guys like Whitner look bad because the D-Line cannot pressure the Quarterback into making mistakes. But, at least the are "high-motor." I will continue to believe we should have passed over Levitre and Byrd, in favor of Evertte Brown/Connor Barwin/Lawrence Sidbury/Fili Moala/Paul Kruger/Sen'Derrick Marks/Michael Johnson or Jarron Gilbert. And/or on the Offensive side: Max Unger/Phil Loadholt/Sebastian Vollmer or William Beatty.

 

7. EVERYTHING mentioned here, ALL falls down to the Owner. I also respect Ralph, but he is past his time. We need somebody who is not afraid to write a paycheck for a Head Coach AND his Assistants. I would like an Offensive Coordinator who is accomplished, not a washed up clipboard holder. It is like my Father always said: "They are going to break your heart until they move, or get an Owner who wants to win a ring." We need somebody to come in and CLEAN HOUSE FROM TOP TO BOTTOM. He needs to put his players in the right places to succeed. He needs to find his out-spoken leaders, and designate them as so. He needs to re-tool the lines and change the schemes. He needs a Strong Safety who is STRONG and a Free Safety who can roam and be free to make plays on the ball. He needs Cornerbacks who can be physical and bump the receivers at the line, then make a tackle when a play is made.

 

 

I hope I am proven wrong and everything falls into place. I just highly doubt it. Our team is in disarray. I want to see them win so badly, but at the same time I don't. If we do well, Jauron most likely stays. I want Ralph to feel humiliated by his product that he has no other choice then to blow up the operation. We have some nice pieces that would be appeasing to a coaching candidate, and Ralph could offer him full-control. I just think we are so far behind the ELITE teams. Our Stadium is old and outdated too. Free Agency is our killer. Nobody wants to come here.

 

I would say until we get a new owner, we are screwed. I would not mind the team moving to Toronto, since it would be better than it being re-located to Los Angeles. As long as they can be competitive, I am on board.

 

As for this year...I see them winning AT-MOST 7, yes SEVEN, games. At least Dick Jauron is CONSISTENT.

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

I go to the games to be with friends second and watch football first. Perhaps that's revolutionary, but I can't stand to lose. And lately all the team has done is find ways to lose. After 9 years, Bills fans deserve more than hope. They deserve results and doing things the same way may give hope before a season, but it won't produce results in-season.

 

There is no substitute for victory. A wise man once said that.

 

When the Bills lose every serious fan at the game is depressed. Football and all of sports is about winning and losing really sucks. In many ways the agony of losing is more intense than the thrill of winning.

[downunderbill]

So why are any of us still here? If it's so freakin' bad find another team to follow, or take up gardening on Sundays. I swear to god, I don't know what's worse, the Bills losing or people endlessly whining about it? There's a simple solution. DON'T FOLLOW THE TEAM. You're welcome.

 

PTR

 

Tool. Whats wrong with people wanting their team to win. I'm sure you have never said a bad word about the Bills.

 

F**k off. your welcome.

[Golden Wheels]

But realistically Jauron will probably find a creative way to turn my 9-7 team into a 7-9 team, so I am keeping all of my optimism handy, but not running to Vegas to put down real money.

 

QFT

 

This team didn't need to get a 35-year-old diva receiver in the off-season. It needed a coach that isn't a clueless game manager, an offensive coordinator who knows that he's doing, and linemen that beat the crap out of other teams.

 

This is will all be very clear to even the most optimistic fans by 10 pm on Monday, September 14th.

[BuffaloBill]

Just remember Marv was a sub .500 lifetime coach with only one winning season until the Bills started their run in 1988 (40-55 over 4 full seasons and 2 partials).

 

 

Let's hope Jauron goes through this metamorphisis and emerges from the cocoon a brand spanking new winning coach. Hell he was stuck by lightning one year in Chicago.

 

Jauron will be gone by mid-season.

[RyanC883]

If I was criticizing a team like Pittsburgh, the Giants, or the Colts, that's one thing. Those teams more often than not make the right on and off field decisions. The Bills have defied logic, what with 30 other NFL teams having made the post-season since 2000.

 

I go to the games to be with friends second and watch football first. Perhaps that's revolutionary, but I can't stand to lose. And lately all the team has done is find ways to lose. After 9 years, Bills fans deserve more than hope. They deserve results and doing things the same way may give hope before a season, but it won't produce results in-season.

 

There is no substitute for victory. A wise man once said that.

 

 

This is a fantastic post. Anyone who thinks the Bills will make the playoffs is insane. What's the definition of insanity: doing the same thing and expecting different results. The Bills have been making the same lame moves personal wise and play calling wise for a decade. Expecting a different result is insane. I will believe it when I see it.

 

GO BILLS.

[Jerry Christ]

Tool. Whats wrong with people wanting their team to win. I'm sure you have never said a bad word about the Bills.

 

F**k off. your welcome.

how about you doing that.......

 

I get tired of hearing the whining myself. If I got to the point I bitched about the bills losing so much I would A. Quit liking football or B. Find another team to root for (never happen).

 

I mean seriously, venting about footbal doesn't help, its not something we can control in our everyday life......people need to quit using the excuse as "VENTING" when it comes to buffalo not being a winning team.

 

 

seriously, shaddapheckup people

[RyanC883]

Let's hope Jauron goes through this metamorphisis and emerges from the cocoon a brand spanking new winning coach. Hell he was stuck by lightning one year in Chicago.

 

Jauron will be gone by mid-season.

 

 

I think the season starts to turn around when Bobby April is the coach. Unlike Jauron, this man has been a great success and his players are always prepared, pumped-up and ready to go.

[billsfreak]

This is a stupid question since none of us have any real idea of what this team will be doing once the season starts. Based on the GB game we are going 0-16. Based on the Bears game we are making the playoffs. I predict something between the two. How's that for honesty?

 

PTR

I agree based on the GB game we will be 0-16 or close to it, but as far as the Chicago game-the first team didn't score any touchdowns. The Bills took over that game with their second, third stringers and camp bodies. So speaking from my head and not my heart, I pretty much expect some of the same as the last 3 seasons, maybe even one win less. My guess 6-10. This is a below average team with some young talent and a terrible offensive line, which will stop all that talent on the offense from producing.

[billsfreak]

Tool. Whats wrong with people wanting their team to win. I'm sure you have never said a bad word about the Bills.

 

F**k off. your welcome.

Amen brother. If you aren't upset at least a little over the product the Bills have put on the field or the effort put forth by the FO, then you probably shouldn't call yourself a Bills fan. This team has went longer than any other team in the NFL without a playoff appearance, and that doesn't look like it is going to change any time soon. This whole organization is run so poorly from the owner, management, coaches down to the players. The Bills are a way of life for us long time Bills fans, and when your way of life sucks, you have justification for being upset.

[CarwellGardner]

So do you think our O-Line will be better or worse than last year? My money is on better even with Walker LT and two rookie guards. Maybe I'm wrong and overly optimistic, but I did not think that our line play was very good last year and think that we can approve with Butler at his natural position, two very talented guards (at the easiest position on the line where their physical talent can take over) a better center (not saying a lot), and a big smart slow guy taking over for a talented guy who didn't seem to care.

 

So do you think our D-Line will be better or worse than last year? Hmm...add Maybin and a healthy Schobel, lose nobody. I'm going with better on this one too, and think the two Aarons will offset another year older for Stroud.

 

So from the simplistic trenches only perspective I think we are better than the team that needed to fall on their sword to stumble to a tragic 7-9 (and was probably an 8 or 9 win team realistically), so we are better than what I think was an 8 or 9 win team. I think we are a 9-7 team right now, who can falter and do worse or maybe get lucky and do a little better. The 11-5 Pats* didn't make the playoffs last year, so we could easily come up short even at 9-7, but this is an improved team that has me excited to watch the season and know there is a better chance of a playoff spot than a top 5 pick.

 

But realistically Jauron will probably find a creative way to turn my 9-7 team into a 7-9 team, so I am keeping all of my optimism handy, but not running to Vegas to put down real money.

 

Great take - agree with you on most all of your points. Except this - the o-line has not shown the ability to push the line yet in a single series. And before you say it - I know it's only preseason... I'm not saying they wont be that by the middle/end of the year but they are all still learning to play together.

 

I'm not giving up on them or saying will be worse or better than last year - simply suggesting that based upon what we've seen so far we're going to be in a lot of 3rd and longs this year - not TE's specialty or strength.

 

Thanks dude.

[CarwellGardner]

If I was criticizing a team like Pittsburgh, the Giants, or the Colts, that's one thing. Those teams more often than not make the right on and off field decisions. The Bills have defied logic, what with 30 other NFL teams having made the post-season since 2000.

 

I go to the games to be with friends second and watch football first. Perhaps that's revolutionary, but I can't stand to lose. And lately all the team has done is find ways to lose. After 9 years, Bills fans deserve more than hope. They deserve results and doing things the same way may give hope before a season, but it won't produce results in-season.

 

There is no substitute for victory. A wise man once said that.

 

Terrific take.

[DrFishfinder]

So why are any of us still here? If it's so freakin' bad find another team to follow, or take up gardening on Sundays. I swear to god, I don't know what's worse, the Bills losing or people endlessly whining about it? There's a simple solution. DON'T FOLLOW THE TEAM. You're welcome.

 

PTR

We B word because we care. If we didn't care, we wouldn't B word or waste time on this board. We'd be following Full Contact Poker or Xtreme Oragami.

[BillsFan74]

With the way our schedule plays out and the talent on the roster this is a 7-9 or 8-8 team. Our offensive needs a little more help or time to jell and our defensive front 7 is simply not good enough to compete for the AFC East.