Please - be honest with what '09 will be...

[birdog1960]

Just remember Marv was a sub .500 lifetime coach with only one winning season until the Bills started their run in 1988 (40-55 over 4 full seasons and 2 partials).

"was" being the operative word. Some might contend that his success was despite Ralph.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

I think TO will help improve the passing game considerably, but the no huddle offence will kill the defense. Overall I do not think we will do as well as last year, since wont have benefit of a fast start, do to the chemestry issues on offensive line, and what i think will be below average linebacker play on defense. And mostly the fact we play allot of games against 3-4 defenses, but doesnt appear as if TE can read that defense for pass rush or coverage very well at this point in his developement.

 

My guess is 6-10.

 

No huddle offense *DOES NOT* kill the defense. The Bills defenses of old had no problem with this, and they ran a frantically paced no huddle. Look people can say that the no huddle undid the Bills against the Cowboys in the SB but that is pure and speculative fallacy. If it was true that no huddle kills the defense, the Bills could not have advanced to the SB to begin with. Don't forget - they had to beat some rather good teams to get there. Please stop regurgitating that same tired old BS. The no huddle wears down the opposing defense to a much greater extent, allowing the Bills (in theory) to maintain possession for longer stretches because the defense is less likely to post three and out defensive efforts. If you no huddle and fail to pick up first downs and/or points, then yea it certainly becomes much less effective. But the same is true of any offensive philosophy in the history of football, so its really a moot point.

[CarwellGardner]

This team is seriously lacking in talent at WAY too many positions to be competitive this year. That lack of talent is only compounded by the poor coaching and losing culture that has developed over the last 10 years. It will take a head down change in leadership and a serious influx of talent to reverse this trend.

 

Love the "E. Flowers" handle. Sweet call.

 

Not for the real question - is Maybin another Flowers?!?

[CarwellGardner]

Just remember Marv was a sub .500 lifetime coach with only one winning season until the Bills started their run in 1988 (40-55 over 4 full seasons and 2 partials).

 

 

Great call - BUT he also had Bill Polian. You want to compare Marv to Juron or Polian to Russ Brandon???

 

Difference between then and now is when the Bills were bad back then they used their position in the draft to bring in PLAYMAKERS (ie Bruce, Biscuit, Thurman, ect)... Our last ten years?!? Mike Williams? Donte?

 

Not saying we've completely wiffed but bad and mediocre teams get better via free agency and identifying IMMEDIATE IMPACT talent through the draft. We have failed misarably at both. ...and cant keep a GM or hire anything but a retread mediocre (but high character mind you!!!) head coach.

 

It is a broken record.

[Erik Flowers]

Love the "E. Flowers" handle. Sweet call.

 

Not for the real question - is Maybin another Flowers?!?

 

 

Thanks, man.

 

Time will tell. Several things I don't like about the pick: he only played one year, he is BULKED UP to 250#, and they appear to want to play him at LE where he will routinely face 350# tackles. Any lineman getting a hand on this guy will put him on the ground. He could be extremely effective if used correctly (ie not an every down LE). Unfortunately, between his hold out and the knuckleheads coaching him, that won't happen this year.

 

He won't be much of a factor at all this year. But that doesn't mean he won't be very good in future years if used and coached correctly. The coaches should have him eating a bucket of wings at the Big Tree Inn every night after practice.

[CarwellGardner]

So why are any of us still here? If it's so freakin' bad find another team to follow, or take up gardening on Sundays. I swear to god, I don't know what's worse, the Bills losing or people endlessly whining about it? There's a simple solution. DON'T FOLLOW THE TEAM. You're welcome.

 

PTR

 

Everybody's on this board for the same obvious reason you are Slim - we all love Buffalo.

 

Robot-man, first off I respect your passion but you're way out of line citing ANYBODY for not being satisfied with middle of the pack professional sports - especially when we've tasted winning. You've been on this board for a long time obviously (judging from your post count) - too long to be so off about one fact...

 

Asking for better and not being satisfied with C- doesn't mean anyone is LESS of a fan - especially less of a fan than you! Just because you chose sarcasm and to be condicending when others want to express their displeasure with mediocrity you take offense?!!?

 

Take a break fella. That's what message boards are built on - opinions. You don't want to read this stuff? Then don't blog a Bills message board until they get better. This franchise belongs as much to those that are unsatisfied with losing as it does to the "rosecolored glasses" fan who wants to police comments on this board.

 

Nobody's quitting on this team. I, and many others, have every right to be realistic and expect more.

 

I respect your passion. Go Bills!

[CarwellGardner]

Thanks, man.

 

Time will tell. Several things I don't like about the pick: he only played one year, he is BULKED UP to 250#, and they appear to want to play him at LE where he will routinely face 250# tackles. Any lineman getting a hand on this guy will put him on the ground. He could be extremely effective if used correctly (ie not an every down LE). Unfortunately, between his hold out and the knuckleheads coaching him, that won't happen this year.

 

He won't be much of a factor at all this year. But that doesn't mean he won't be very good in future years if used and coached correctly. The coaches should have him eating a bucket of wings at the Big Tree Inn every night after practice.

 

 

Love Big Tree - prefer Barbell in Elma. Some of the best Beef on Weck outside of Charlie the Butcher. God I miss B'lo food!

 

Steal of our draft will be Nic Harris. Starting by week 4??

[Erik Flowers]

Love Big Tree - prefer Barbell in Elma. Some of the best Beef on Weck outside of Charlie the Butcher. God I miss B'lo food!

 

Steal of our draft will be Nic Harris. Starting by week 4??

 

 

Bar Bill is very good, and presently a lot tamer than it used to be. Big Tree is closer to the stadium. Less chance of Maybin getting lost, or being caught driving after dark on his junior operator's license.

 

Harris may be starting earlier than that. Ellison is headed to the bench, and the sooner the better.

 

10 years of picking in the top 15, and look at the mediocre mess we have to show for it. Everyone in their scouting department should be fired immediately.

[CarwellGardner]

Bar Bill is very good, and presently a lot tamer than it used to be. Big Tree is closer to the stadium. Less chance of Maybin getting lost, or being caught driving after dark on his junior operator's license.

 

Harris may be starting earlier than that. Ellison is headed to the bench, and the sooner the better.

 

10 years of picking in the top 15, and look at the mediocre mess we have to show for it. Everyone in their scouting department should be fired immediately.

 

"junior operator's license" - Hilarious

 

Do you think Bill Polian coming back is out of the question?

[Guest dog14787]

Here's a rather obvious point I'd like to offer as we continue to disect this team through the preseason... and remember, it is the preseason. I so respect the enthusiasm and love that is consistently displayed on this board. It is one of the reasons I am so proud to be a lifelong Bills fan. Even though my family and I live very far away from Buffalo both myself and my kids know the Bills to be our team.

 

Here's my two cents - One key aspect of winning in football at ALL LEVELS is those positions and schemes CLOSET TO THE BALL. Simply stated, if we do not improve in the area at the line of scrimmage we will not improve this year and will continue to struggle in this division. Each of our rivals approach the game with a very physical, tough, punch you in the f'ing mouth attitude and as of yet neither our players, head coach or mgmt embody that attitude or ability. Do we have a few that have it within themselves (Poz, Whitner, Marshawn)? - yes. The bulk of our guys? Average at best, high character, Dick Juron/Marv kind of people... good citizens and great for Wegmans commercials and March of Dimes functions. So what's my point - simply this, please let's all be very honest with what we have here talent-wise before we spend anymore time bashing our Bills to be more than they are capable of for the year.

 

The teams that are regularly successful in the playoffs are the teams that are the most physical. They have depth and talent and grit CLOSEST TO THE BALL. We, as of yet, are not built this way. Couple that with our lack of cohesiveness and leadership in the front office and you have a middle of the road team not positioned to do anymore that in recent year's past.

 

O-Line: the NEW center was a guard, one ROOKIE guard was a center in college, the other ROOKIE guard a tackle, the left tackle is a right tackle, and the right tackle is a guard (I know he played it in college). Not only is everyone on this group either learning or re-learning a new position but two of them are rookies. It is a complete overhaul. It is also one of the few areas during the preseason where you can really get an accurate sneak peek at what you can expect during the regular season. If guys are getting rolled because of poor technique and scheme then that is not something that you can fix during the season with personnel moves - only playcalling. The Green Bay game was a prime example of what I am speaking of... man to man, at the snap, 1st team (key point) players being overwhelmed and beaten - regularly.

 

D-Line: Finished '08 #22 vs Run; T-3rd worst (28th) in sacks @ 24

Kelsay: finished 41st for D-lineman in tackles

41st Chris Kelsay BUF DE 47 tkls 33 solo 14 ast 2.0 sacks 1 FF

Stroud: 48th Marcus Stroud BUF DT 45 tkls 29 solo 16 ast 2.5 sacks 1 ff

Williams (the best of the group!): 16th Kyle Williams BUF DT 55 tkls 37 solo 18 ast 2.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: he actually finished 8th amongst all interior lineman in tkls!

Denney: 58 tkls 40 solo 18 ast 4.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: actually much better than I would have guessed and notably better than Kelsay!?!

Schobel: obviously w the injury the jury is still out on how effective he can be...

Maybin: undersized (250) and young (came out after soph year) but very athletic and raw - great upside

 

Finally, examine the actions of those that we must beat to succeed and move forward. They DO MORE TO IMPROVE consistently that our owner and management are willing to do. This is a fact and it is unfortunate. This team once embodied the attitude and spirit of the hard working people of Western NY - those prodominantly blue-collar people that pay exorbident amounts of money to watch and support them... but that is no longer the case. I have the utmost respect for Ralph and what he has meant to the game and the area but until their is some sense of urgency that is passed down from those between him and the field we will remain - stagnant and average.

 

Guys, I hope I'm wrong. I love this team, its fans and its owner. But neither you or I or even Ralph can control the product on the field on Sundays. Only the players and their coach can do that. So be fair with your assesments - watch other teams. Listen to how successfull coaches address the media - especially after losses or poor performance. I don't doubt our team - I am just to a point as a die-hard fan that I want to be realistic with what I believe this team can achieve. That being said - Dick, feel free to surprise me.

 

Jim Kelly, Thurman, Bruce, Andre, Talley, Bennett and best of all Carwell are not "walking through that door" anymore.

 

Buffalove in KY for ever. Go Bills!

 

Carwell Gardener gave my Dad (who is no longer with us) plus the rest of our family a very fond memory of the Jim Kelly era by giving my Niece who was only about 4 years old at the time a football. The team was using the ball at practice when Jim kelly threw a pass to Gardener which he missed (wasn't known for his catching abilities) and the ball bounced off the field to Paris( my niece) so she ran over and picked up the ball and half pushed it back towards Carwell. Gardener came over reached down picked up the ball, smiled and handed the football back to my niece and ruffled her hair. My dad said carwell looked like a giant standing over my little niece and would get tears in his eyes when he would tell folks the story of how she got the football. Paris is in the army now getting ready to do a tour over in Germany

 

What a class act

[Erik Flowers]

Carwell Gardener gave my Dad (who is no longer with is) plus the rest of our family a very fond memory of the Jim Kelly era by giving my Niece who was only about 4 years old at the time a football. The team was using the ball at practice when Jim kelly threw a pass to Gardener which he missed (wasn't known for his catching abilities) and the ball bounced off the field to Paris( my niece) so she ran over and picked up the ball and half pushed it back towards Carwell. Gardener came over reached down picked up the ball, smiled and handed the football back to my niece and ruffled her hair. My dad said carwell looked like a giant standing over my little niece and would get tears in his eyes when he would tell folks the story of how she got the football. Paris is in the army now getting ready to do a tour over in Germany

 

What a class act

 

 

Nice story! Hate to think what our current fullback might have done!

 

Its a joke!!!

[CarwellGardner]

Carwell Gardener gave my Dad (who is no longer with is) plus the rest of our family a very fond memory of the Jim Kelly era by giving my Niece who was only about 4 years old at the time a football. The team was using the ball at practice when Jim kelly threw a pass to Gardener which he missed (wasn't known for his catching abilities) and the ball bounced off the field to Paris( my niece) so she ran over and picked up the ball and half pushed it back towards Carwell. Gardener came over reached down picked up the ball, smiled and handed the football back to my niece and ruffled her hair. My dad said carwell looked like a giant standing over my little niece and would get tears in his eyes when he would tell folks the story of how she got the football. Paris is in the army now getting ready to do a tour over in Germany

 

What a class act

 

Thanks for that story Dog! He was/is a very good man. Hated him in high school - he and his brother, Donny, used to dominate my high school every year - men amongst boys. Great career as a Cardinal and always in good graces and out of trouble! Really respect him. Our current squad could really use his attitude in the run game...

[Guest dog14787]

Thanks for that story Dog! He was/is a very good man. Hated him in high school - he and his brother, Donny, used to dominate my high school every year - men amongst boys. Great career as a Cardinal and always in good graces and out of trouble! Really respect him. Our current squad could really use his attitude in the run game...

 

 

I totally agree with you, he was a beast to bring down.

[Fewell733]

why don't we just wait and see

[Big Turk]

"I can tell you what '09 will be like. Pick up the phone and dial our number for your free 3 minute psychic reading... "

 

Regards,

 

Miss Cleo and her psychic friends network

 

WAR to Hesitrent Edwards throwing the ball more than 5 yards down field

[8-8 Forever?]

I think TO will help improve the passing game considerably, but the no huddle offence will kill the defense. Overall I do not think we will do as well as last year, since wont have benefit of a fast start, do to the chemestry issues on offensive line, and what i think will be below average linebacker play on defense. And mostly the fact we play allot of games against 3-4 defenses, but doesnt appear as if TE can read that defense for pass rush or coverage very well at this point in his developement.

 

My guess is 6-10.

 

Agreed. Maybe 7-9. The silver lining is if they are 100% healthy all season. they I think they can go 9-7. That's about it. DJ is fired . and the merrygo round starts all over again. lets just hope we are there to see the 7 or 8 wins and too busy with other things to see the 8 or 9 losses, have some good times and move on.. that's how you root for the bills. don't bother with the away games against top 10 teams -- they have no shot.. why suffer through those games... but have a ball when they play tampa or jets at home or KC or teams they can beat .. that's where you want to focus your attention...

[BillsVet]

So why are any of us still here? If it's so freakin' bad find another team to follow, or take up gardening on Sundays. I swear to god, I don't know what's worse, the Bills losing or people endlessly whining about it? There's a simple solution. DON'T FOLLOW THE TEAM. You're welcome.

 

PTR

 

Look PTR, I hate to rain on your emotionally driven rant here, but ain't much different in 09 than there was in 08. Same coaching staff. Same starting defense. Same front office. Plenty of rookies, and a much harder schedule.

 

I'd love to wax poetic that this season will be different, but let's be serious here. DJ still coaches this team.

 

I go to the games on Sunday because I want to see the team win. But I don't have to stand idly by and mute my opinion when for the better part of the decade the same people in management are still running the show. Sorry.

[AF88Bills]

Wow...these threads are really getting old. It must suck to be miserable all the time. If the Bills have no chance, and aren't worth watching, you can always jump onto the Pats bandwagon. There's plenty of room.

 

I'm all for being realistic, but I'm not going to focus on complaining and being miserable before the season starts.

 

Try being excited at the beginning. Hope should spring eternal during the preseason. You have the regular season to be miserable is you so choose.

[BillsVet]

Wow...these threads are really getting old. It must suck to be miserable all the time. If the Bills have no chance, and aren't worth watching, you can always jump onto the Pats bandwagon. There's plenty of room.

 

I'm all for being realistic, but I'm not going to focus on complaining and being miserable before the season starts.

 

Try being excited at the beginning. Hope should spring eternal during the preseason. You have the regular season to be miserable is you so choose.

 

Buffalo is 9 for 9 this decade in getting expectations up and dropping people by the end of the season. We should be able to go into at least one season expecting to win and not just hoping to win.

[rstencel]

No huddle offense *DOES NOT* kill the defense. The Bills defenses of old had no problem with this, and they ran a frantically paced no huddle. Look people can say that the no huddle undid the Bills against the Cowboys in the SB but that is pure and speculative fallacy. If it was true that no huddle kills the defense, the Bills could not have advanced to the SB to begin with. Don't forget - they had to beat some rather good teams to get there. Please stop regurgitating that same tired old BS. The no huddle wears down the opposing defense to a much greater extent, allowing the Bills (in theory) to maintain possession for longer stretches because the defense is less likely to post three and out defensive efforts. If you no huddle and fail to pick up first downs and/or points, then yea it certainly becomes much less effective. But the same is true of any offensive philosophy in the history of football, so its really a moot point.

 

 

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Wasn't saying killed Bills defense, was saying in past was tougher for defenses that were going against no huddle, since they didn't have microphones in helmet back then, but i do believe it puts more pressure on your defense.

 

I do believe it is harder for teams defense that plays the no huddle because they tend to spend less time on the field since run plays faster, and give less time for them to rest between drives. Also find that teams that run the no huddle tend to be feast or famine allot. Meaning that some games will have allot of long drives and other games have a ton of 3 and outs, and only have 20-25 minutes time of possession. I know time of possession can be overrated, but don't fell quick 2 and outs are rated high enough. Defense that get off the field and have to come right back in short amount of time tend to give more big plays, and can be demoralized if happens several times in a row. If look at teams in both college and pros that run no huddle, there is a common thread that most of the time they tend to have ball 5 less minutes that their opponents, unless they blow them out. Of course the data may be skewed by numbers for hurry up offenses.

 

Basically I think the offense is good in shorts spurts, or as a change of pace, but am not a fan of it as a full time offense. It can work, and has for teams, but I don't think it works against well coached teams, unless the team running it is very efficient and executes the offense extremely well, and don't see feel this team will be efficient enough or executing to that level required to beat good teams. Especially teams with a good pass rush.

 

And as far as that Bills defense not having a problem with it. That was a very very talented defense. They had all pro talent on most of d-line, and line-backing core was very talented. If Bills would have run a more traditional offense, I believe that defense would have been number 1 ranked for multiple years, and had more than Bruce in the hall. I could be wrong on that, as that is more of an opinion.

 

Basically I don't agree with the statement running no huddle doesn't affect the defense, but I do agree that a good defense wouldn't be very affected by it. I just don't believe we have the right type of defense to mesh with it. Our defense is undersized and depends on speed and penetration. If run an undersized defense, one thing have to worry about is them getting tired, and no-huddle can contribute to this. Sure Indy runs no-huddle frequently and runs same type of defense, but they get allot of first downs, as they have one heck of a QB, great o-line, and up to this year 2 probably hall of famers at WR. So dont feel like that team is a good bench mark as this team doesnt have good line yet, and QB isnt quite in same league.

 

Sorry about long reply.