PDaDdy Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 judging by your posting history, you share a very similar obsession and typing mannerisms like one of our other beloved posters. I can assure you I am not he/she. I'm arrogant enough that I don't need an alias or multiple usernames. LOL. I was on realfootball365 for a while but there were a bunch of dunderheads over there. I have been reading the articles on this one for a while. I left a WHILE ago but, I think that forum and site ended up dying anyway. Those guys pissed in their own Wheaties every morning.
Maddog69 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Imagine where the Bills would be today if they had traded up for Big Ben instead of JP. Big Ben would be playing in the UFL ?
DieHardBillsFan Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Perhaps. But, can you see the humor in the current situation? JP was widely ridiculed because all he did was look for the long bomb and wouldn't use outlet receiver. (I'm not saying that's true, just saying that was what was being said.) Trent was built up and seen as the next great thing. Now, he's being ridiculed because all he does is look for the checkdown, out receiver and doesn't throw it long enough. (And, unfortunately, that is quite factual.) It's kinda like that old saying... be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it. Well, we all got it. Good post. Surprised I haven't thought about that already. Went from EXTREME - overconservative. Sounds like our Democratic and Republican vote doesn't it?
bizell Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Sucks bad enough to have a winning record, imagine that, despite the lack of having a decent group of WR's no TE to speak and an inexperienced OC. ignorant post, and that's a fact for what it's worth (not much at all): according to pro-football-reference.com, trent edwards does not have a winning record (at least in the splits page). http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play...dwaTr01/splits/ for whatever weird reason, on his main page it says he's 12-11. :shrug:
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 for what it's worth (not much at all): according to pro-football-reference.com, trent edwards does not have a winning record (at least in the splits page). http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play...dwaTr01/splits/ for whatever weird reason, on his main page it says he's 12-11. :shrug: Not exactly 'clutch' on Mondays...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 for what it's worth (not much at all): according to pro-football-reference.com, trent edwards does not have a winning record (at least in the splits page). http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play...dwaTr01/splits/ for whatever weird reason, on his main page it says he's 12-11. :shrug: 12 - 11 is correct, they have an extra game somehow unless I'm missing something.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 Pathetic? I made a mistake and admitted as much, you can't seem to get one post off with contradicting yourself and sounding like a fool. Eli and Peyton Manning were the first two QB's I researched, I hardly call it scouring the net, but I'll bet if I did research every current starting QB in the league Trent Edwards game winning percentage is in the top 20% of the league when you compare the first 23 starts of their careers. Another made up stat...keep em coming...
bizell Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 12 - 11 is correct, they have an extra game somehow unless I'm missing something. upon further review, i believe 12-12 should be correct. witness: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play...waTr01/gamelog/
thebandit27 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Frankly, I'm not worried about you giving me the benefit of a doubt, but if your comparisons speak of future results past the game experience TE has, what difference does it make. At this point TE is ahead of both Manning brothers and Jim kelly( as far as wins go) not on Par with them. You want me to come out and say TE will have a wining season, O.K. , in my opinion TE will come of age this season and do well, are you satisfied. I'm baffled at how this could possibly be so difficult to understand! I already went through the numbers for you, and no, Trent is NOT ahead of all of those guys. I'll leave Kelly off here since we've already agreed that his career really didn't take off until year 3. You can break it down by # of games if it helps your case, but the NFL actually gauges competition by seasons, and so I think it's only fair to do the same for QB play. In his first season as a starter (when he was a rookie), Edwards started 9 games. He started 14 last year, he's completed 2 years as a starter (I realize that I said I'd throw out his first year, but after thinking about it, he started 9 games, that's a year of experience in my book). In comparison, Peyton Manning started 16 his rookie year, Eli Manning started 7, Tom Brady started 0 (he didn't play at all as a rookie but started 14 games in year 2), and Joe Montana started 7. Each of those guys (save for Brady as mentioned) took their respective teams to the playoffs in year 2, winning 11 or more games. If Edwards were ahead of those guys, Buffalo would have won 11+ games last year and made the playoffs. Unless I missed something, that didn't happen. Or maybe you think Edwards' level of play eclipsed that of both Mannings, Brady, and Montana in their 2nd seasons as starters...well, let's have a look: http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/g...amp;season=1999 http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/game...amp;season=2005 http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/gamelo...amp;season=2002 http://www.nfl.com/players/joemontana/game...amp;season=1981 http://www.nfl.com/players/trentedwards/ga...amp;season=2008 Now, which of those guys is Edwards supposedly ahead of, again? To me, it looks like each of them grossly outperformed Trent in year 2 as a starter. Perhpas it's some mystique derived from playing games 25-32...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 Forget the mistake, who cares? We've all done something similar...but let's look at the point you're trying to make here, dog. Your point is in regard to wins early on in a QBs career. If you want to compare Trent to the Mannings, Kelly, Montana, etc., here's a good way to start: - Peyton's team went 13-3 and scored a 1st round playoff bye in his 2nd season - Eli's team went 11-5 and made the playoffs in his 2nd season - Joe Montana's team went 11-5 and won the Superbowl in his 2nd season - Kelly is one that I'll give you as far as 2nd season struggles, he did take a while to settle in, but he at least looked the part of a franchise QB. Edwards, to me, looks confused and incapable (now, of course, I have to point out for the idiot crew--not implying you're part of it--that I'm neither a Trent nor a JP fan, I don't think either of them are good). But I digress...Buffalo went 12-4 in Kelly's 3rd season (1988) and scored a playoff bye...can you honestly say you expect Edwards to lead Buffalo to a similar mark this year? Relax dude. It's okay for people on this board to think Trent isn't very good. Calm down. It's a totally acceptable position to have, considering that the guy looks good against the bottom-feeders and awful against every half-way decent opponent. I want him to succeed, you want him to succeed; in fact I think it's safe to say any Bills fan wants him to succeed. But wanting him to be good and thinking he's capable of being a quality NFL QB are two different things. If people criticizing Edwards and calling him names bothers you, then you shouldn't be reading threads that discuss his play or his ability. Oh and by the way, it's more than a little misguided to say that any members of a team's fan base--whether they share your opinion of a player or not--deserve a "crap product". I don't think Trent is very good, and I've been a season ticket holder for 22 years, so I can guarantee you I don't deserve a "crap product". Fantastic post...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 Just for the sake of historical accuracy, it's probably really difficult to get to 3,000 yds with 19:14 TD:INT, and QB rating of 85 while only having 4 good games. I mean, Losman did finish 11th in the league in TDs, 13th in yards, 9th in completion percentage, 11th in QB rating, and tied for 4th in completions of over 40 yards; all while finishing 23rd in the league in attempts per game. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1 Again, I'm not a big JP backer (as a QB anyway, as a person I think he's a great guy), but if Edwards gets anywhere near those numbers this season I'll be thrilled, and I think you would be as well. If Edwards had that season last year we make the playoffs...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 The Trent apologists hate this thread but I love it. Props to who ever coined the term "Trent apologists". LOVE IT. Maybe I am a rare fan that actually hopes that Trent does well but can still objectively say that he hasn't done much of anything against a team with a winning record and we know the issues with the 3 - 4 defense. All in good fun, let's summarize and add: 1) JP sucks - No longer on the team people. Give it up! 2) Trent has a winning record - But has never beat a team that ended the year with a winning record 3) Trent is god, everyone else sucks 4) If Trent sucks this year it's because the fans were objective and critical of his mistakes and down right mean 5) Trent has a great completion percentage - Not coincidentally our RB tandem lead the league in receptions. Can you say checkdown? 6) Comparing the TEAMS, not Trents, wins against sub .500 teams and holding it up against real QBs like Manning, Brady, Kelly, and Manning that have big time NFL arms 7) It's only preseason!!! - Pay no attention to the melt down after week 6 last year!!!! 8) It's the conucussion - Trent himself said this was not a factor
Alphadawg7 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 something fishy about this poster, I can't quite put a paw on it If you are implying I would waste my time with two logins then you are dumber than your posts...I would actually feel sorry for someone who would have to waste time creating multiple logins to make a point an a freaking message board... But nice try Magox...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 I'm baffled at how this could possibly be so difficult to understand! I already went through the numbers for you, and no, Trent is NOT ahead of all of those guys. I'll leave Kelly off here since we've already agreed that his career really didn't take off until year 3. You can break it down by # of games if it helps your case, but the NFL actually gauges competition by seasons, and so I think it's only fair to do the same for QB play. In his first season as a starter (when he was a rookie), Edwards started 9 games. He started 14 last year, he's completed 2 years as a starter (I realize that I said I'd throw out his first year, but after thinking about it, he started 9 games, that's a year of experience in my book). In comparison, Peyton Manning started 16 his rookie year, Eli Manning started 7, Tom Brady started 0 (he didn't play at all as a rookie but started 14 games in year 2), and Joe Montana started 7. Each of those guys (save for Brady as mentioned) took their respective teams to the playoffs in year 2, winning 11 or more games. If Edwards were ahead of those guys, Buffalo would have won 11+ games last year and made the playoffs. Unless I missed something, that didn't happen. Or maybe you think Edwards' level of play eclipsed that of both Mannings, Brady, and Montana in their 2nd seasons as starters...well, let's have a look: http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/g...amp;season=1999 http://www.nfl.com/players/elimanning/game...amp;season=2005 http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/gamelo...amp;season=2002 http://www.nfl.com/players/joemontana/game...amp;season=1981 http://www.nfl.com/players/trentedwards/ga...amp;season=2008 Now, which of those guys is Edwards supposedly ahead of, again? To me, it looks like each of them grossly outperformed Trent in year 2 as a starter. Perhpas it's some mystique derived from playing games 25-32... I'm baffled that you think comparing seasons instead of games is fair when there's 32 games in two seasons and TE only played 23. More power to you buddy, but I'm sorry, its not a fair comparison in my opinion. So what your saying is a new QB could start his career at the 2nd half of a season, have 8 games in and the whole season should be used as comparison. Pretty wacky way of thinking in my book, but hey, NP, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Rico Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 something fishy about this poster, I can't quite put a paw on it They're all Sketch Soland, no one else could be that much of a fugtard.
thebandit27 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 I'm baffled that you think comparing seasons instead of games is fair when there's 32 games in two seasons and TE only played 23. More power to you buddy, but I'm sorry, its not a fair comparison in my opinion. So what your saying is a new QB could start his career at the 2nd half of a season, have 8 games in and the whole season should be used as comparison. Pretty wacky way of thinking in my book, but hey NP, we are all entitled to our own opinions. As I said in my post, the NFL uses seasons as the basis for comparison, and not games, then so to shall I. Also, if you think Trent is going to morph into one of the Mannings, or Tom Brady, or Joe Montana, or Jim Kelly, after playing in 9 more games, then you and I simply see two different players wearing #5 for Buffalo.
Magox Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 They're all Sketch Soland, no one else could be that much of a fugtard. you're right, I overestimated his fugtardiness
Guest dog14787 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 As I said in my post, the NFL uses seasons as the basis for comparison, and not games, then so to shall I. Also, if you think Trent is going to morph into one of the Mannings, or Tom Brady, or Joe Montana, or Jim Kelly, after playing in 9 more games, then you and I simply see two different players wearing #5 for Buffalo. No, they post the amount of games a QB wins in a season, you are making the bogus comparison not the NFL. I suppose I'm guilty of some bogus comparisons in this thread myself.
thebandit27 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 No, they post the amount of games a QB wins in a season, you are making the bogus comparison not the NFL. Umm, no genius, the NFL uses a season-long record to compare teams. This record, comprised of wins (W), losses (L), and--although rare in NFL football--ties (T) is used to determine which teams make the playoffs. The playoffs, ultimately, are where each team is trying to get in order to win a Superbowl. Contrary to your belief, the NFL does not keep a separate record for QBs and teams. I understand your stance completely, dog. Comparing the 1st and 2nd seasons of other QBs to Trent's 1st and 2nd seasons does not make him look good, and so you are calling it bogus. Look man, I don't like to think about it either, but don't say that comparing 2 seasons of play to 2 seasons of play is bogus. In each situation, the player had a full rookie camp, full minicamp, full training camp, full preseason, plenty of rookie experience, another full minicamp, another full training camp, another full preseason, and plenty of sophomore experience. You can boil it down to "some of those guys played more games than Trent" if it makes you feel better, but the bottom line is that the QBs that YOU chose to compare to Trent all (again, except for Kelly) won 11+ games in their second year, and only Peyton Manning started more games prior to his second season as a starter. Eli and Joe-Mo started 7 as rookies and Brady started 0. Then again, this thread was started to provide a forum for people to make excuses for Trent, so perhaps I am in the wrong here...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Umm, no genius, the NFL uses a season-long record to compare teams. This record, comprised of wins (W), losses (L), and--although rare in NFL football--ties (T) is used to determine which teams make the playoffs. The playoffs, ultimately, are where each team is trying to get in order to win a Superbowl. Contrary to your belief, the NFL does not keep a separate record for QBs and teams. I understand your stance completely, dog. Comparing the 1st and 2nd seasons of other QBs to Trent's 1st and 2nd seasons does not make him look good, and so you are calling it bogus. Look man, I don't like to think about it either, but don't say that comparing 2 seasons of play to 2 seasons of play is bogus. In each situation, the player had a full rookie camp, full minicamp, full training camp, full preseason, plenty of rookie experience, another full minicamp, another full training camp, another full preseason, and plenty of sophomore experience. You can boil it down to "some of those guys played more games than Trent" if it makes you feel better, but the bottom line is that the QBs that YOU chose to compare to Trent all (again, except for Kelly) won 11+ games in their second year, and only Peyton Manning started more games prior to his second season as a starter. Eli and Joe-Mo started 7 as rookies and Brady started 0. Then again, this thread was started to provide a forum for people to make excuses for Trent, so perhaps I am in the wrong here... My belief? I've known all along the NFL doesn't keep win loss records for QB's. So let me get this straight, its impossible for you to comprehend that in TE's first 23 game starts he has won more games than Peyton's first 23 game starts, is this what you are telling me.
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