spidey Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Don't confuse him. He's got to brush up on his 20th century history first. 113665[/snapback] Intelligent swipe. The issues in the middle east date much further back than the crusades but I figured just recent history is enough since it shows direct American involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Intelligent swipe. The issues in the middle east date much further back than the crusades but I figured just recent history is enough since it shows direct American involvement. 113682[/snapback] Especially when you over-simplify it to the point of inane uselessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCI Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 What kind of comment is that? By the way, the Netherlands IS part of the coalition of the willing. P.S. Did we reap what we sowed on 9/11? 112615[/snapback] Yes, the US did, but not in the way you thing. Not because the US perpetrated “evil” acts against other countries, we have done more good then harm in the world, because for 10 years after the first tower bombing and before 911 the federal government did nothing to breakup the sleeper cells planning our destruction. The same can be said for the Netherlands for years they have done nothing to curb the growth of radical fundamentalist Islam and now their citizens are being assassinated for speaking their mind. Whether you live in the Netherlands, France or the US Radical Islam is a plague to us all whose purpose is to conquer or displace the cultures of the countries it moves through. They will never, never assimilate into a culture like millions of immigrant groups before it. Wait and see, France will fall to them first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Just shows how effective "tolerance" is in preventing terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Just shows how effective "tolerance" is in preventing terror. 114093[/snapback] Have you ever been there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Have you ever been there? 114115[/snapback] No, not there, though I'd love to visit Amsterdam some time. Since you seem to be the resident expert, please educate me on the topic (Serious request). From my somewhat limited understanding, the Netherlands is one of the more "tolerant" nations in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 No, not there, though I'd love to visit Amsterdam some time. Since you seem to be the resident expert, please educate me on the topic (Serious request). From my somewhat limited understanding, the Netherlands is one of the more "tolerant" nations in Europe. 114121[/snapback] It really is a great place and the people are as well. In fact, I married one. The Netherlands is known for being a "tolerant" place, which I believe is a good thing. It is tolerant in an almost libertarian way such that people typically have the live and let live philosophy, which is actually "conservative" in the traditional sense. Of course, when some people think of the Netherlands, they think of "coffee houses" and the red light district. The country is so much more than those two things obviously. Yet, those two issues provide some insight as to Dutch tolerance. For example, the Dutch realize that prostitution has been around since the beginning of time and will be around until the end of time. The same thing with "soft drugs." Their attitude is that, as long as people are not hurting others, it is only counterproductive to make it illegal. There is actually less drug use by the Dutch than here. The Dutch are actually somewhat conservative in their own lives while not telling other people what they should do in their own. My wife, for example, does not even drink alchohol or coffee. We, on the other hand, have spent so many of our resources on crimes relating to possession of pot and prostitution that in my mind would be better spent on schools and fighting terrorism for example. I heard somewhere that California has built far more prisons than schools since the 1970s (I forgot the exact statistic). The need for so many prisons has been fueled by the need to house prisoners that have been convicted of possession of pot etc. Again, our resources could be better spent. One of the problems that many European countries face has been the influx of muslim immigration. [Keep in mind that I am NOT one of the people on this board that reflexively anti-muslim -- there are billions of them in the world and most of them are good people with whom we should be able to get along]. These European countries (e.g., Germany, France, the Netherlands, etc) initially brought these people in after WWII to help rebuild these countries. There have been severe problems of assimilation -- especially lately. For example, did you know that France's population is 5% muslim, yet its prison population is 50% muslim. In some respects, these countries are going through what we went through in the 60's. One of the big issues in the EU is whether to let Turkey join. The U.S. has strongly pushed the the EU to let Turkey join. One of the underlying problems, however, is that many EU countries do not want Turks to be able to freely move to EU countries. Back to the Netherlands. There are so many good things about the country. If you are from Buffalo, chances are you may have had one or two beers in your life. The Dutch have some of the best beers in the world. They also have some of the best seafood, coffee, candy, apple pie, cheese, fondue, pancakes, bread etc. If you are into culture, they have some of the best museums. For example, I think that the Van Gogh museum is the most enjoyable art museums in the entire world. If you go there, you will realize why. Amsterdam, the Hague, and Utrecht are great cities to just walk around -- especially during the Summer. Also, as an American, it is very easy to get around and everyone speaks English -- in fact, most people speak English better than a lot of people I know here. If you are a fan of soccer (i.e. football), they have some of the best soccer and soccer players in the world (e.g., Ruud van Nistleroy of Man U). Finally, if you are a single guy who likes attractive women, the Netherlands is a place for you (as are Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Finland, and the Czech Republic by the way). In any event, there are a lot of very good things about an "Old" European country like the Netherlands. Give me a call if and when you want to talk. You can PM me and I will give you my number at the office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 If you are into culture, they have some of the best museums. For example, I think that the Van Gogh museum is the most enjoyable art museums in the entire world. If you go there, you will realize why. 114586[/snapback] Ignoramus. Rijksmuseum beats it to shreds. But, aside from that, it is by far my favorite EU city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Ignoramus. Rijksmuseum beats it to shreds. But, aside from that, it is by far my favorite EU city. 114627[/snapback] That is another one. I could wander around that museum for days. I also forgot to mention the Anne Frank house. You all know the story, but going there was one of the more moving experiences that I have had. You have to go there. It is especially sad to realize that she died just weeks before liberation. Anyway, you should go there. It puts life in perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 It really is a great place and the people are as well. In fact, I married one. The Netherlands is known for being a "tolerant" place, which I believe is a good thing. It is tolerant in an almost libertarian way such that people typically have the live and let live philosophy, which is actually "conservative" in the traditional sense. Of course, when some people think of the Netherlands, they think of "coffee houses" and the red light district. The country is so much more than those two things obviously. Yet, those two issues provide some insight as to Dutch tolerance. For example, the Dutch realize that prostitution has been around since the beginning of time and will be around until the end of time. The same thing with "soft drugs." Their attitude is that, as long as people are not hurting others, it is only counterproductive to make it illegal. There is actually less drug use by the Dutch than here. The Dutch are actually somewhat conservative in their own lives while not telling other people what they should do in their own. My wife, for example, does not even drink alchohol or coffee. We, on the other hand, have spent so many of our resources on crimes relating to possession of pot and prostitution that in my mind would be better spent on schools and fighting terrorism for example. I heard somewhere that California has built far more prisons than schools since the 1970s (I forgot the exact statistic). The need for so many prisons has been fueled by the need to house prisoners that have been convicted of possession of pot etc. Again, our resources could be better spent. One of the problems that many European countries face has been the influx of muslim immigration. [Keep in mind that I am NOT one of the people on this board that reflexively anti-muslim -- there are billions of them in the world and most of them are good people with whom we should be able to get along]. These European countries (e.g., Germany, France, the Netherlands, etc) initially brought these people in after WWII to help rebuild these countries. There have been severe problems of assimilation -- especially lately. For example, did you know that France's population is 5% muslim, yet its prison population is 50% muslim. In some respects, these countries are going through what we went through in the 60's. One of the big issues in the EU is whether to let Turkey join. The U.S. has strongly pushed the the EU to let Turkey join. One of the underlying problems, however, is that many EU countries do not want Turks to be able to freely move to EU countries. Back to the Netherlands. There are so many good things about the country. If you are from Buffalo, chances are you may have had one or two beers in your life. The Dutch have some of the best beers in the world. They also have some of the best seafood, coffee, candy, apple pie, cheese, fondue, pancakes, bread etc. If you are into culture, they have some of the best museums. For example, I think that the Van Gogh museum is the most enjoyable art museums in the entire world. If you go there, you will realize why. Amsterdam, the Hague, and Utrecht are great cities to just walk around -- especially during the Summer. Also, as an American, it is very easy to get around and everyone speaks English -- in fact, most people speak English better than a lot of people I know here. If you are a fan of soccer (i.e. football), they have some of the best soccer and soccer players in the world (e.g., Ruud van Nistleroy of Man U). Finally, if you are a single guy who likes attractive women, the Netherlands is a place for you (as are Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Finland, and the Czech Republic by the way). In any event, there are a lot of very good things about an "Old" European country like the Netherlands. Give me a call if and when you want to talk. You can PM me and I will give you my number at the office. 114586[/snapback] Well, thanks, that was more than I was expecting. As a believer in drug freedoms, I'm pretty much well aware of the relaxed attitude in the Netherlands. A question however...you mention it has a libertarian attitude. Does that mean there is no state-run medicine as there is in France or Canada? And I'd love to learn more about the netherlands. Despite my attitudes toward European elitism, I *AM* interested in Europe. In school my Major concentration was Ancient and European history. So, I'm not anti-Europe per se, just anti-their anti-American attiudes. ((was that confusing or what?)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I saw a story today where the Nederlands police/army raided a Muslim terrorist training facilty and arrested 29 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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