OnTheRocks Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 You must have missed an awful lot of posts. Gay marriage should be allowed because homosexuals are a recognized minority group (hence their inclusion in hate-crime legislation), and therefore should be afforded all of the rights and privildges of heterosexual people. Period, end of debate. You don't have to agree, that's OK. There were plenty of people who agreed with a judge's ruling that God put blacks, whites, and Asians on seperate continents, and had man not intervened, the races would never have co-mingled. Since man interfered with God's master plan, he decided to right the wrong by making inter-racial marriages illegal in Virginia - in 1967! All of the arguments I've seen against gay marriage are eerily familiar to that court decision. It's really not a case of whether or not inter-racial relationships OR homosexuality is "hurting anyone" or that society has become more tolerant of inter-racial relationships OR homosexuality. It has everything to do with discrimination against a specific group of fellow citizens, and that simply should not be acceptable to any American. 121720[/snapback] and the arguement against what you are saying is like stating something to this effect: "hey....I am an adulterer....lets start a club and we can eventually become known as a 'minority people group'...then when we say we are being discriminated against...we can get a bunch of lawyers together and fight for our cause." Referring to homosexuals as a "minority group" is a TOTAL CROCK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 and the arguement against what you are saying is like stating something to this effect: "hey....I am an adulterer....lets start a club and we can eventually become known as a 'minority people group'...then when we say we are being discriminated against...we can get a bunch of lawyers together and fight for our cause." Referring to homosexuals as a "minority group" is a TOTAL CROCK! 121752[/snapback] Homosexual's inclusion as a minority group in hate-crime legislation is a fact. If you want to argue that, start another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Homosexual's inclusion as a minority group in hate-crime legislation is a fact. If you want to argue that, start another thread. 121764[/snapback] you start another thread. there is no argument. they ARE NOT a minority people group. period. are they in the minority yes. are they a minority people group? NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondale Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Homosexual's inclusion as a minority group in hate-crime legislation is a fact. If you want to argue that, start another thread. 121764[/snapback] Who cares? Just because a group is listed as a minority in some hate crime legislation, that makes them eligible for equal rights? You still can't defend OnTheRocks question. Under your theory any group that wants equal rights should just get together and seek to be referred to as a minority - then they will get equal rights. You'll support this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 you think the Christian Right in this thread is "nuts".... read this and tell me who is CRAZY. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/...e%20Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 you think the Christian Right in this thread is "nuts"....read this and tell me who is CRAZY. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/...e%20Association 121793[/snapback] If you think that anywhere near a majority of gays appreciate this, you are off your rocker. Next to nobody thinks this is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 you start another thread. there is no argument. they ARE NOT a minority people group. period. are they in the minority yes. are they a minority people group? NO! 121777[/snapback] If I'm not mistaken, this thread is about gay marriage, so my post does not require a different thread. If your version of God or religious beliefs prevent you from acknowledging the realities of hate-crime legislation, that has nothing to do with gay marriage. It's a seperate issue, and as such, should be debated in a different thread. There's really nothing more that needs to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 If you think that anywhere near a majority of gays appreciate this, you are off your rocker. Next to nobody thinks this is right. 121801[/snapback] the point is...it starts with a small group...and grows. it is that simple. if you think that 25 years ago you would have ever seen ANYTHING like this in the USA...you are crazy.. now almost overnight they have an "ASSOCIATION" ????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Who cares? Just because a group is listed as a minority in some hate crime legislation, that makes them eligible for equal rights? You still can't defend OnTheRocks question. Under your theory any group that wants equal rights should just get together and seek to be referred to as a minority - then they will get equal rights. You'll support this? 121788[/snapback] Any group of people born into a particular minority status, sure. Last time I checked there weren't any born adulterers, though. Of course, if all a$$holes got together to form a group seeking equal rights, we might find they are in the majority By the way, nice job calling someone out on defending someone else's question when you have yet to answer mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 the point is...it starts with a small group...and grows.it is that simple. if you think that 25 years ago you would have ever seen ANYTHING like this in the USA...you are crazy.. now almost overnight they have an "ASSOCIATION" ????????????? 121811[/snapback] they have been an association for a long time. I actually heard about them 20 years ago. They are as wrong and outside the mainstream as they will ever be. Children are not consenting adults. What is your point, exactly? Edit: if you read your own link you would have seen that NAMBLA was founded 1978. Nice work, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 If I'm not mistaken, this thread is about gay marriage, so my post does not require a different thread. If your version of God or religious beliefs prevent you from acknowledging the realities of hate-crime legislation, that has nothing to do with gay marriage. It's a seperate issue, and as such, should be debated in a different thread. There's really nothing more that needs to be said. 121802[/snapback] look at the original post 12 pages back and think again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 If I'm not mistaken, this thread is about gay marriage, so my post does not require a different thread. If your version of God or religious beliefs prevent you from acknowledging the realities of hate-crime legislation, that has nothing to do with gay marriage. It's a seperate issue, and as such, should be debated in a different thread. There's really nothing more that needs to be said. 121802[/snapback] But arguing that homosexuals is a "minority group" gives no reason to allow them to get married. I could throw 10 pedophiles in a group and call them a minority group. Does that mean we should give them equal marriage rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Who cares? Just because a group is listed as a minority in some hate crime legislation, that makes them eligible for equal rights? 121788[/snapback] No. They are listed as a minority group in hate-crime legislation because they already had equal rights. You still can't defend OnTheRocks question. Under your theory any group that wants equal rights should just get together and seek to be referred to as a minority - then they will get equal rights. You'll support this? 121788[/snapback] It's not about a group that WANTS equal rights. It's about a group that is federally protected from discrimination. Congress has passed laws recognizing the rights of homosexuals. Perhaps you've seen dislaimers by realtors, banks, schools, and job applications to the effect of "It is illegal to discriminate based upon race, ethnicity, religion, creed, age, gender, marital status, and sexual orientation"? You don't have to like it, but homosexuals are a protected class. Last time I checked, "adulterers" and "pedophiles" aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 But arguing that homosexuals is a "minority group" gives no reason to allow them to get married. I could throw 10 pedophiles in a group and call them a minority group. Does that mean we should give them equal marriage rights? 121822[/snapback] You do understand that pedophilia is RAPE, right? And that homosexual couples are consenting ADULTS? wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Wow, that was a complete waste of your time. Taking Levitical law out of context. WOW! How stupid is that. In reading this, am I to propose that you are not REALLY against homosexual relations? And you were just mocking the Bible? If you want to take a look outside of Levitical law, to see how the Bible calls homosexuality a perversion and a sin, you may want to refer to I Corinthians 6:9. And you may want to hesitate regarding slamming the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 What is your point, exactly? 121818[/snapback] read the post again...my point is....that these groups start small....and grow. people don't pay any attention to them because they think they are so far "off" there could not possibly be anything to the group. then....(and i know you don't think this could ever happen to you) but what will you do or someone you know tells you that the local school is going to have a "Man-Boy Love Pride Day"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 read the post again...my point is....that these groups start small....and grow.people don't pay any attention to them because they think they are so far "off" there could not possibly be anything to the group. then....(and i know you don't think this could ever happen to you) but what will you do or someone you know tells you that the local school is going to have a "Man-Boy Love Pride Day"? 121830[/snapback] Another straw man. Pedophilia is a crime. Homosexuality is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 No. They are listed as a minority group in hate-crime legislation because they already had equal rights.It's not about a group that WANTS equal rights. It's about a group that is federally protected from discrimination. Congress has passed laws recognizing the rights of homosexuals. Perhaps you've seen dislaimers by realtors, banks, schools, and job applications to the effect of "It is illegal to discriminate based upon race, ethnicity, religion, creed, age, gender, marital status, and sexual orientation"? You don't have to like it, but homosexuals are a protected class. Last time I checked, "adulterers" and "pedophiles" aren't. 121826[/snapback] I understand your point perfectly clear Campy....my point is...that the culture will become numb to all things immoral...and then there will be hate crime legislation against pedophiles. Having said that....do you think that is something you will never see happen? Legistlation to protect pedophiles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondale Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 People in this country used to: - morally rationalize owning slaves - morally rationalize the wrongness of interracial coupling and marriage - morally rationalize that women had no right to participate in our democracy They don't anymore. Society thinks differently now. I'm sure you would not have drawn the line at any of these. 121419[/snapback] That doesn't make my point any less true. Just as society can go down the wrong path and view something morally wrong as okay (gay marriage), it can also change for the good and correct a previously wrong practice (slavery). Show me in the Bible where it states that it is okay to degrade any person based on their race or sex. The Bible supports the freedom and equality of all men as they are created, in the cases you mention society returned to Biblical principles as opposed to straying from Biblical principles which is happening with gay marriage. Just because morals in our society change, that does not mean that there is no moral absolute. It just means society is straying from and returning to those moral absolutes. The Bible was written by men, translated to your language by men, books were selected and rejected for inclusion in it by men, and you as a person are interpreting it the way you wish. Prove to me there is no subjectivity going on in this process and I will agree with you that morals are ironclad and unchanging. 121419[/snapback] First off, how people interpret the Bible does not in any way reflect on the validity of the Bible itself. Just as today we have judges and others interpreting the constitution in different ways. Does their different interpretation reflect in any way on the accuracy, and validity of the Constitution itself? This only shows that man is imperfect and unable to fully undestand and agree on the Bible or other documents for that matter. If you are concerned about the translation, then you must have knowledge of serious translational differences that exist between the current Bible and the original scripture written thousands of years ago. I could go into detail and refute this charge, but even before I do that don't you think you should provide some evidence of the supposed subjectivity? The fact remains that the Bible is historically accurate. No piece of historical information in the bible has been disproven. Prophetic verses in the Old Testament, foretelling of historic events, have been proven 100% accurate. While the Bible does not claim to be a science, math or any type of textbook, the areas covered in the Bible are 100% accurate. A question I have for you is this: if God does not exist, where did morals come from? I guess I don't know whether you believe in God, maybe you do and just don't want to adhere to any particular belief. Regardless, evolution from nothing can't explain how man differentiates between right and wrong. Creation and God does explain where morals come from and if God gave us morals, it is common sense to conclude that they were absolute morals, as the Bible teaches. This is a huge subject so obviously I can't say everything, but that is a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 read the post again...my point is....that these groups start small....and grow.people don't pay any attention to them because they think they are so far "off" there could not possibly be anything to the group. then....(and i know you don't think this could ever happen to you) but what will you do or someone you know tells you that the local school is going to have a "Man-Boy Love Pride Day"? 121830[/snapback] I will surely eat my own foot, OnTheRocks, is that what you're asking for? If our schools are in the business of sanctioning pedophiles, who take advantage of boys OR girls, then we're in real deep stevestojan. It's not going to happen, and any fantasy of such an occasion is pure paranoia. Your problem is that you're equating the acts of consensual adults with pedophiles, which is sickening. Funny how our country is particularly worried about man-boy pedophilia but turns a blind eye to "filthy teen slutz" or whatever (heterosexual) exploitation of young girls is going on, and has little problem with the "can't wait till she's 18" mentality proffered by so many around here. Color me disgusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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