San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 This whole article is fascinating and well researched. Kudos to Mark Gaughan. http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/772903.html In particular, two points jumped off the page at me (even though as I said, the entire article is outstanding): "The Bills went 6-1 against the 4-3 scheme last season but 1-8 versus the 3-4 defense. Buffalo averaged 30 points per game against 4-3 teams and 14 versus 3-4 teams." You might remember how well the offense ran against the Bears 4-3 Tampa 2 last week, the same defense the Bills run. So just why is it that the Bills struggle against 3-4 schemes? Gaughan suggests the answer in one of his quotes from Trent Edwards: "We haven't faced a 3-4, a full-speed, live-contact 3-4 defense since last year against the Patriots." And later on in the article, Edwards is quoted once again: "It's good for us," but the hard part now is I don't know how much scout team we're going to be running [in practice]. We didn't face a scout team 3-4 defense [last week], we faced our 4-3 defense. it is the preseason. We do kind of need to just learn things on the fly and be able to make in-game adjustments. But I don't know how much scout team we'll get, how many looks we'll get of [the] Steelers' defense. Edwards is accountable in the article but he also suggests that the Bills are not practicing to play against a type of defense that is so critical for our team to succeed against. From Hangartner's quote and throughout the whole piece, this is must read stuff.
billsrcursed Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 I don't play pro ball, but I've played my fare share of "organized Football" in my life. I've never, at any level, in my entire existence, been in a practice where the Offense was NOT practicing against our upcoming opponent's Defensive schemes and tendencies, all the way up to potential blitz packages. This, if true, is certainly troubling. Thanks for the article, BTW.
BillnutinHouston Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 I don't play pro ball, but I've played my fare share of "organized Football" in my life. I've never, at any level, in my entire existence, been in a practice where the Offense was NOT practicing against our upcoming opponent's Defensive schemes and tendencies, all the way up to potential blitz packages. This, if true, is certainly troubling. Thanks for the article, BTW. Jauron HAS to make it a point to have the offense practice against the 3-4 from now on, right? Isn't this the burning question that the media need to be asking Dick?
zazie Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Jauron HAS to make it a point to have the offense practice against the 3-4 from now on, right? Isn't this the burning question that the media need to be asking Dick? Tim Graham asked him, and got limp Dicks response: "Tim Graham here ... When I passed through Orchard Park on Thursday, I twice asked Jauron about preparing for the Patriots' defense in the opener since they're moving to a 4-3. He essentially informed me -- and in what I thought was a pretty condescending tone -- the Patriots always have run four-man fronts. So what? I guess they're wasting an awful lot of ink and bandwidth in Boston. "
Corp000085 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 All signs here lead to a billy joe hobertesque excuse of why they weren't prepared. Quick bits of insight: -if the offense practices against the 3-4 defense scout team, they'd be more prepared. -if said scout team was the starting defense, couldn't the Bills use the 3-4 in actual game situations, because you know... they practice with it? -Why don't the Bills coaches SEEM to prepare their players for game situations? -Countless Super Bowls, AFC East divisions, and games against the Bills have been won by the 3-4 defense since Tampa won it with their tampa-2 against the raiders (who had no chance no matter what defense was being run). Why the hell don't the Bills jump the shark and just run the 3-4? I truly can still handle thousands of defeats if the games were hard fought and they just got beat by a better team... I don't know how many more i can stand where it looks like our team is just not prepared. It's the same crap since 2000... Deer in headlights, run up the gut for a yard, check down to the dude in the flat who gets blown up for minus 3 yards, run run pass punt, playing for a field goal and missing it, halftime with 2 timeouts on the board (cause one was used for a ridiculous challenge), running out the clock but calling a bootleg and fumbling it away, etc. It goes on and on , coach after coach, player after player. Prepare your friggin team! This is the NFL. There's really no difference in the players' talent levels from team to team. It's all about coaching and preparing for the opponent.
John Adams Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 It's not just the 3-4. As was discussed last year several times, Trent does poorly against teams that drop men into coverage. He reads and reacts to blitzes extremely well. But when a team drops lots of men into coverage and doesn't blitz, he blows. If he's not seeing that in practice, shame on the Bills. It would be yet another coaching blunder around a young QB.
ganesh Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 It shows that the Bills did not do their homework in the off season. If the Bills went 1-8 against 3-4 teams, shouldn't they have brought in a 3-4 Defensive guy at least as a consultant to help out the offense and also throw in a mix to confuse opponents... Last season the Steelers and Patriots were constantly mixing up 3-4 and 4-3 and it showed in the results.
jwws9999 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 It shows that the Bills did not do their homework in the off season. If the Bills went 1-8 against 3-4 teams, shouldn't they have brought in a 3-4 Defensive guy at least as a consultant to help out the offense and also throw in a mix to confuse opponents... Last season the Steelers and Patriots were constantly mixing up 3-4 and 4-3 and it showed in the results. Edwards was very smart in this situation, he basically called out the coaching staff in a politically correct way. Hopefully it will show some results
eball Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Well, I've gone from being optimistic to resigning myself to another ho-hum season. Blah. As much as I try to tell myself it's preseason, comments from the offensive (in several regards) players about facing the 3-4 are simply baffling to me. It's not as if the defense was just invented last year. This makes no sense.
LGB Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Look, if Dick Jauron feels that his team is prepared to face the regular season opponents, it should not matter what defense the other team is running - right? It is this simple: good coaches prepare their team to be in the best possible position to win and that is Jauron's responsibility. I mean, that is what good coaches are suppose to do - right? There is only one problem: Dick Jauron has only had one winning season in his pathetic head coaching career when the Bears went 13-3 in 2001. He has 57 wins in 133 games or a .429 winning percentage and is not a good coach. He is a below average coach who should have been canned last year and will be fired this year after we all suffer through another year of below average everything. The fans deserve better than what we are getting...
KOKBILLS Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 This Team will NEVER be any good with Dead Dick as HC...His formula does not work... It's a heck of a good formula for losing Football and another 7-9 Season...Even though 7-9 seems like a bit of a longshot right now...Especially in the AFC East with it's three 3-4 Defenses...
thewildrabbit Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 The Baltimore Ravens run a 3-4 defense, per se. Suggs lines up on the line of scrimmage and yet he is a linebacker that plays with one hand down, they say they run a 3-4 and Suggs is a LB so they don't have to pay him DE money, but the Ravens really run a 4 man line most of the time.
dollars 2 donuts Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Look, if Dick Jauron feels that his team is prepared to face the regular season opponents, it should not matter what defense the other team is running - right? It is this simple: good coaches prepare their team to be in the best possible position to win and that is Jauron's responsibility. I mean, that is what good coaches are suppose to do - right? There is only one problem: Dick Jauron has only had one winning season in his pathetic head coaching career when the Bears went 13-3 in 2001. He has 57 wins in 133 games or a .429 winning percentage and is not a good coach. He is a below average coach who should have been canned last year and will be fired this year after we all suffer through another year of below average everything. The fans deserve better than what we are getting... Ralph is never going to pay the really big bucks for a coach, and although I would like him to, I get it b/c there are no guarantees and he HAS to pay out that money regardless of when he fires that coach. That being said, I want to win now. I don't care about winning in the playoffs or winning a Super Bowl, I just want to start winning for the first time in 10 years. In other words, I would take Marty Shotenheimer (sorry, spelling) as coach of this team TOMORROW, even at his age. If he were hired, I guarantee you, we would at least be in double digits victory wise by 2010.
jester43 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 It shows that the Bills did not do their homework in the off season. If the Bills went 1-8 against 3-4 teams, shouldn't they have brought in a 3-4 Defensive guy at least as a consultant to help out the offense and also throw in a mix to confuse opponents... Last season the Steelers and Patriots were constantly mixing up 3-4 and 4-3 and it showed in the results. heeeeyyy...easy there big fella. don't you know we're a small market? what makes you think you know how to spend our HALL OF FAME OWNER's money? enough guys like you come out of the woodwork and there won't be anything left for the heirs. besides, who cares if we're prepared for our opponents? the stadium's packed!
Thoner7 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Edwards is taking stabs at the coaching staff being as subtle as he can be. There is no reason for him to reveal that kind of stuff. What he is saying "Hey look...we never prepare..."
thewildrabbit Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 This Team will NEVER be any good with Dead Dick as HC...His formula does not work...It's a heck of a good formula for losing Football and another 7-9 Season...Even though 7-9 seems like a bit of a longshot right now...Especially in the AFC East with it's three 3-4 Defenses... The problem is, Jauron and the front office can't evaluate talent properly so they can't build a team that can win with his scheme. The keys to running a great 4-3 is the line, great 3 tech DT and great DE's. The Bills have Stroud and Williams in the middle but are seriously lacking great DE's, they don't even have one great DE right now. Which is why they went after Maybin at #11, but is this kid another ***** ******* type who looks like Tarzan in college and plays like Jane in the NFL?
VJ91 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 It's not just the 3-4. As was discussed last year several times, Trent does poorly against teams that drop men into coverage. He reads and reacts to blitzes extremely well. But when a team drops lots of men into coverage and doesn't blitz, he blows. ... It seems to me, that if a team drops lots of men into coverage and doesn't bliz, a smart kid like Edwards should be able to recognize the d will be doing that at the line of scrimmage, and simply audible into a nice running play to take advantage of those defenders dropping into coverage. Or, at the very least, with no bitzing going on, he should be able to stand in and simply wait a couple of extra seconds for one of his talented receivers to get open, despite the extra defenders in coverage.
wonderbread Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 So typical. Buffalo knows that the Pack run a 3-4 and they don't practice against it. They also know that the 3 other teams in our division run it. Training camp ended friday and they have no answer to it? That seems about right to me.
generaLee83 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Edwards is taking stabs at the coaching staff being as subtle as he can be. There is no reason for him to reveal that kind of stuff. What he is saying "Hey look...we never prepare..." While I normally would agree with not calling out a coach for any reason I'll make an exception here. This is a glaring example of why Dick Jauron is nowhere near head coach material in the NFL. To fail to practice against the type of defense/offense that your upcoming opponent uses is absolutely unforgiveable. If I was Ralph Wilson and I came to know this information I would fire Jauron on the spot, in front of all the players. Edwards exposed Jauron and the situation and also offered a perfectly plausible reason why the Bills suck against the 3-4. Now I can only hope that Jauron will make an adjustment here and start using the 3-4 in practice but I think it'll go something more like this: Anyone with an IQ above 23: "Hey Coach Jauron, now that everyone knows the reason that we suck against the 3-4 is because we don't practice against it do you think that we should try it now? Maybe it'll help us progress and actually beat a division opponent" Coach Jauron: "No, I think we need to keep doing what we've always done. If teams know that we are now practicing against the 3-4 I bet they won't use it against us" Anyone with an IQ above 23: "Are you fukking retarded?"
John Adams Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 It seems to me, that if a team drops lots of men into coverage and doesn't bliz, a smart kid like Edwards should be able to recognize the d will be doing that at the line of scrimmage, and simply audible into a nice running play to take advantage of those defenders dropping into coverage. Or, at the very least, with no bitzing going on, he should be able to stand in and simply wait a couple of extra seconds for one of his talented receivers to get open, despite the extra defenders in coverage. First, let's get something straight. The Bills line is incapable of opening any holes for a running back, no matter how many lineman are across from them so that option is out. Second, I agree that Trent should be able to do this. It's his achilles heel--but at the same time if he's struggling with it and it's so obvious, his coaching staff should be throwing it at him day and night. Most QBs struggle against a blitz. That's not Edwards's weakeness. He struggles against lots of guys in coverage. So, WTF coaching staff? Make him see that ALL DAY LONG.
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