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Posted
For a reference point on some WRs that are NOT Hall of Fame worthy look at Derrick Mason and Donald Driver, both have 50% or more 1,000 yard seasons in less seasons than Reed.

 

People's points are not that we are defending Trent, it's that Evans is too one-dimensional. He was the same way with JP so I don't know what that has to do with Trent.

 

I want to see Evans go over the middle and catch the ball. You can't expect me to believe it's just a coincidence. I've seen him stop his route up the middle, and one time with JP against the Rams 4 years ago he stopped his slant route and it was an INT and the DB was wide open because Evans stopped.

 

Evans doesn't attack the ball but rarely. He's not a #1.

 

 

Lee Evans is a 4.37 5'10" 198 lb WR. What do you expect of him? To be the big body presence in the middle of the field running routes over the middle getting drilled by safeties, linebackers and DBs? Generally you have small guys that are fast and go deep and big guys that are slow and work the middle and edges. It's rare to find guys that are both.

 

I think because Lee is not both you are saying he is one dimensional. I'll take Lee Evans one dimensional 1292 yds and 8 TDs like when JP was throwing him the ball any year. Imagine if JP actually knew how to run an NFL offense? We're talking elite.

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Posted
Lee Evans is a 4.37 5'10" 198 lb WR. What do you expect of him? To be the big body presence in the middle of the field running routes over the middle getting drilled by safeties, linebackers and DBs? Generally you have small guys that are fast and go deep and big guys that are slow and work the middle and edges. It's rare to find guys that are both.

 

I think because Lee is not both you are saying he is one dimensional. I'll take Lee Evans one dimensional 1292 yds and 8 TDs like when JP was throwing him the ball any year. Imagine if JP actually knew how to run an NFL offense? We're talking elite.

 

 

8 TD's in what you seem to want to call his best season will hardly strike fear into opposing NFL teams. The guy is fast good for him. The point is that he is not a true #1 simply because he can't execute in all of the areas on the field. You want to shut him and the Bills down ignore the middle and roll a safety over the top on Evans and then watch Trent look like a dazed idiot in the pocket when he can't find the allegedly great Roscoe Parrish who had been jammed at the line or ran the wrong route.

 

My point in this post is not to bash Evans. Rather it is to say the Bills have for years failed to address the fact that they needed a true number 1 receiver on the roster. If TO stays healthy the situation is addressed this year. If he does not stay healthy look for more non-production from this offense.

 

I really believe that this situation shows a failure on the part of the Bills organization to be honest with themselves about the players they have on the roster. Lee Evans is not a #1 and Roscoe Parrish IMO is not even a #4. The Bills organization has had years to come to this realization. Before TO what have they done to address it?

 

  • Brought Peerless Price back - brilliant move
  • Waited until last year to draft a receiver (Hardy) and one they acknowledged would not be a #1 any time soon if at all
  • Until this year failed to grab anyone in FA that smelled of a true #1 receiver.

 

I guess drafting DB's was way too much of a priority because you have to hope your defense can pitch shutouts when the best your offense can manage is a few field goals every so often.

Posted
Lee Evans is a 4.37 5'10" 198 lb WR. What do you expect of him? To be the big body presence in the middle of the field running routes over the middle getting drilled by safeties, linebackers and DBs? Generally you have small guys that are fast and go deep and big guys that are slow and work the middle and edges. It's rare to find guys that are both.

 

I think because Lee is not both you are saying he is one dimensional. I'll take Lee Evans one dimensional 1292 yds and 8 TDs like when JP was throwing him the ball any year. Imagine if JP actually knew how to run an NFL offense? We're talking elite.

 

Steve Smith, Laveneus Coles, and other small receivers go over the middle of the field that are #1s. All I'm saying is that thin guys do go over the middle all the time and are #1s and under 200 lbs: Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, etc..

 

But I appreciate the nicer tone, now we can have a conversation. Imagine if I said "You are an Evans lover and will do anything to defend Evans!"

 

But let's continue, let's say you don't go over the middle. You are effectively making the CB's job a breeze where he only has to move in 2 directions rather than 3. You can also exploit softness in the middle of the field. If you want to see 2 masters of this watch Wes Welker and Steve Smith. I know Evans is better than Welker, but even though Welker is smaller he's got balls, so does Smith. That's why they can use their speed to be WIDE open by using the whole field.

 

This makes me believe 1 of 2 things: Either he doesn't have the balls to be a football player, or the coaches are afraid he'll get hurt. I've never seen a coach in my life who plays so the players don't get hurt. I've seen Evans short-arm many passes he heard the footsteps on.

 

My point is a true #1 opens up things for other receivers, he doesn't do that, and a true #1 can take over a game, and not every game, but 2 or 4 games a season.

 

Sure he's a great deep ball WR, but so is Devery Henderson, but I wouldn't consider him or Henderson a #1, although Evans has much better hands than Henderson.

Posted
Steve Smith, Laveneus Coles, and other small receivers go over the middle of the field that are #1s. All I'm saying is that thin guys do go over the middle all the time and are #1s and under 200 lbs: Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, etc..

 

But I appreciate the nicer tone, now we can have a conversation. Imagine if I said "You are an Evans lover and will do anything to defend Evans!"

 

But let's continue, let's say you don't go over the middle. You are effectively making the CB's job a breeze where he only has to move in 2 directions rather than 3. You can also exploit softness in the middle of the field. If you want to see 2 masters of this watch Wes Welker and Steve Smith. I know Evans is better than Welker, but even though Welker is smaller he's got balls, so does Smith. That's why they can use their speed to be WIDE open by using the whole field.

 

This makes me believe 1 of 2 things: Either he doesn't have the balls to be a football player, or the coaches are afraid he'll get hurt. I've never seen a coach in my life who plays so the players don't get hurt. I've seen Evans short-arm many passes he heard the footsteps on.

 

My point is a true #1 opens up things for other receivers, he doesn't do that, and a true #1 can take over a game, and not every game, but 2 or 4 games a season.

 

Sure he's a great deep ball WR, but so is Devery Henderson, but I wouldn't consider him or Henderson a #1, although Evans has much better hands than Henderson.

 

 

Well said

Posted
Steve Smith, Laveneus Coles, and other small receivers go over the middle of the field that are #1s. All I'm saying is that thin guys do go over the middle all the time and are #1s and under 200 lbs: Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, etc..

 

But I appreciate the nicer tone, now we can have a conversation. Imagine if I said "You are an Evans lover and will do anything to defend Evans!"

 

But let's continue, let's say you don't go over the middle. You are effectively making the CB's job a breeze where he only has to move in 2 directions rather than 3. You can also exploit softness in the middle of the field. If you want to see 2 masters of this watch Wes Welker and Steve Smith. I know Evans is better than Welker, but even though Welker is smaller he's got balls, so does Smith. That's why they can use their speed to be WIDE open by using the whole field.

 

This makes me believe 1 of 2 things: Either he doesn't have the balls to be a football player, or the coaches are afraid he'll get hurt. I've never seen a coach in my life who plays so the players don't get hurt. I've seen Evans short-arm many passes he heard the footsteps on.

 

My point is a true #1 opens up things for other receivers, he doesn't do that, and a true #1 can take over a game, and not every game, but 2 or 4 games a season.

 

Sure he's a great deep ball WR, but so is Devery Henderson, but I wouldn't consider him or Henderson a #1, although Evans has much better hands than Henderson.

 

I do appreciate your nicer tone as well. Now we can talk. As I said I guess we have a different definition of a #1 WR. You seem to judge them by the routes they run. I tend to judge them by the threat they present, if they get double teamed constantly and the most important thing their actual production.

 

Laverneous Coles is a great example. His average production over the last 3 years is 865yds and 6 tds. You call him a #1. By my standards this also makes Lee a #1 because Lee has averaged 1052yds and 5tds the last 3 years with no #2 and dunderhead or rookie QBs. He has actually out produced your #1 WR Laverneous. Steve Smith is a freak and is not just a #1 he is an ELITE WR. Not to mention he has a QB that has the arm to make use of his field stretching speed. Without the threat of the deep ball because of his QB Steve Smith would be covered up like a blanker inside 25yds from scrimmage like they do Lee.

 

I don't know about you but I care about yds and TDs not which route tree they are running. I don't recall them handing out first downs and points for running across the middle.

 

Of course in a way this has gotten tremendously off topic in that the question was why Trent looks lost and if it is Lee Evans fault not whether Lee is a #1 or not. I said it before. Trent looked lost because he is lost. You didn't have to stay at a Holiday Inn to know that he still doesn't know how to read and play against 3 - 4 defenses. He can call the plays at the line if he doesn't like what he sees. Problem is I don't think he knows what he sees.

Posted

In thinking about the lee v reed comparisons I think of Lofton. Lofton was the deep threat a la Lee while Andre sucked in the lb's because he always had potential to move the chains underneath. This is the same effect you see from Welker, i think he was just as big on the pats as moss that year. For us TO should be the answer. He gets open on slants and crossing patterns, that will free up Lee to get open deep, where he can. Can trent hit him deep? Still don't know.

Posted
I do appreciate your nicer tone as well. Now we can talk. As I said I guess we have a different definition of a #1 WR. You seem to judge them by the routes they run. I tend to judge them by the threat they present, if they get double teamed constantly and the most important thing their actual production.

 

Laverneous Coles is a great example. His average production over the last 3 years is 865yds and 6 tds. You call him a #1. By my standards this also makes Lee a #1 because Lee has averaged 1052yds and 5tds the last 3 years with no #2 and dunderhead or rookie QBs. He has actually out produced your #1 WR Laverneous. Steve Smith is a freak and is not just a #1 he is an ELITE WR. Not to mention he has a QB that has the arm to make use of his field stretching speed. Without the threat of the deep ball because of his QB Steve Smith would be covered up like a blanker inside 25yds from scrimmage like they do Lee.

 

I don't know about you but I care about yds and TDs not which route tree they are running. I don't recall them handing out first downs and points for running across the middle.

 

Of course in a way this has gotten tremendously off topic in that the question was why Trent looks lost and if it is Lee Evans fault not whether Lee is a #1 or not. I said it before. Trent looked lost because he is lost. You didn't have to stay at a Holiday Inn to know that he still doesn't know how to read and play against 3 - 4 defenses. He can call the plays at the line if he doesn't like what he sees. Problem is I don't think he knows what he sees.

 

I want you to understand something first of all, I think Evans has just as much talent as Reggie Wayne, but the problem is he doesn't want to be used in the same way as Wayne. I think he is more talented than Laveranues Coles as I used in an example, my problem isn't that he's not the same caliber, it's how he is used and how he is willing to be an asset to the team.

 

Let's go back to Coles in his first 5 seasons to Lee's. Coles started slow in his first 2 years, in years 3-5 he averaged around 85 receptions a season and 1138 yards a season. Evans did better in his first 2 years, but in the years 3-5 he averaged 66 receptions and 1052 yards a season.

 

My issue is with his production in receptions and his games as he had 4 games with only 2 receptions, 5 games with 4 receptions, and 1 game with 3 receptions. To me that's not a go to #1 receiver. To me a #1 is the guy who can bail a QB out with either quickness or strength or both.

 

Right now I'd take how Wes Welker playing over Lee Evans. That bastard must be accounted for EVERY game he plays. Lee can be taken out if the D prepares for him, and they cannot prepare for Welker because he's the midget who plays with heart and toughness and makes the D want to die every time Brady has more than 4 seconds because he's ALWAYS open underneath. Don't you think Evans could do even better than Welker? I think so and know so because he has better hands and is faster.

 

My overall point is that a true #1 must be reckoned with and is a true bailout for the QB. Smith just finds ways to get open, Fitzgerald you just need to throw up the ball and see him come down with it, Andre Smith is just huge and physical, and the list goes on. Evans is a glorified #2 playing #1 position.

 

The only way Lee looks better is with a #1 receiver. He doesn't demand more attention. He can be single covered effectively as Hall did to him on the Raiders game this year and sure 4 rec for 65 yards is good for a good #2, but not a true #1.

 

A real #1 is accountable on every play. Evans is so one dimensional he only plays 1/3 of the field. Ask yourself if it's a lot easier to game plan for 1/3 of the field of 100% of the field? That's why I think he lacks what it takes to do it, not his talent. The man is EXTREMELY talented, but he will never do it unless he's willing to play hard-nosed football.

 

I'll tell you the true comparison: Chad Johnson. They are almost the same weight and Johnson is 2 inches taller. I'd say Evans is (gulp) more talented than Chad Johnson, but Johnson is a true #1 and Evans is not. Go watch them play. Johnson needs to be reckoned with every play because he can be anywhere. The reality is Evans could have Johnson like #s and be a bigger asset to the team if he was willing to do more for the team.

 

Remember when Johnson was laid out by our Bills? Where was he? The middle of the field.

Posted

It just seems to me that there is something not quite right between Trent and Lee. I am not saying that QBs and Wideouts need to be blood brothers, but it seems there is a legit lack of chemistry btw the two

Posted

Wow...now I have seen it all...someone started a thread to blame Lee Evans for why Trent stunk again. Geezus, how many excuses are you people going to make for a man who didnt even produce in college nor the NFL? ONE lousy 300 yard game since HIGH SCHOOL and it was EARLY in College...none since...

 

This guy has never produced big numbers or TD's since High School. Let me go down the list of excuses for Trent on this board...

 

1. DJ

2. No #2 WR

3. No TE

4. Jason Peters Holdout

5. Walker (and other various O Line men)

6. Inexperience

7. His concussion

8. Turk

9. Gameplan

10. Game preperation

11. Ralph is cheap

 

And now #12...Lee Evans isnt good enough...(actually, I am sure there are others, but these are just the most common)

 

GET REAL! If Lee Evans were in AZ, Dal, Indy, NE, NO, GB, Phi, ETC, then he would have top 10 WR's and would be a perennial Pro Bowler. His numbers have gone down because we havent had a QB who can consistently get him the ball. Face it, whether you like it or not, the best season a Bills QB has had in the last 4 years was JP Suckman's a few years back and even that was average.

 

Man, the boy crush on Trent Christ around here is pathetic. He has done nothing at the NFL level and was mediocre at the collegiate level, yet you people keep making excuse after excuse for this guy.

 

MARK MY WORDS, the QB position is the MOST IMPORTANT reason why we have not made the playoffs the last 3 years. I can name about 20 QB's who could have gotten these exact same teams into the playoffs the last 3 years over our combo JP Suckman and Trent Christ.

 

I just want to know, at what point are you people going to finally say, "Oh, he just isnt getting it yet..."

 

PS: Doesnt mean he wont get there one day, but he sure isnt there yet. Hopefully he can put it together quickly...

Posted
I want you to understand something first of all, I think Evans has just as much talent as Reggie Wayne, but the problem is he doesn't want to be used in the same way as Wayne. I think he is more talented than Laveranues Coles as I used in an example, my problem isn't that he's not the same caliber, it's how he is used and how he is willing to be an asset to the team.

 

Let's go back to Coles in his first 5 seasons to Lee's. Coles started slow in his first 2 years, in years 3-5 he averaged around 85 receptions a season and 1138 yards a season. Evans did better in his first 2 years, but in the years 3-5 he averaged 66 receptions and 1052 yards a season.

 

My issue is with his production in receptions and his games as he had 4 games with only 2 receptions, 5 games with 4 receptions, and 1 game with 3 receptions. To me that's not a go to #1 receiver. To me a #1 is the guy who can bail a QB out with either quickness or strength or both.

 

Right now I'd take how Wes Welker playing over Lee Evans. That bastard must be accounted for EVERY game he plays. Lee can be taken out if the D prepares for him, and they cannot prepare for Welker because he's the midget who plays with heart and toughness and makes the D want to die every time Brady has more than 4 seconds because he's ALWAYS open underneath. Don't you think Evans could do even better than Welker? I think so and know so because he has better hands and is faster.

 

My overall point is that a true #1 must be reckoned with and is a true bailout for the QB. Smith just finds ways to get open, Fitzgerald you just need to throw up the ball and see him come down with it, Andre Smith is just huge and physical, and the list goes on. Evans is a glorified #2 playing #1 position.

 

The only way Lee looks better is with a #1 receiver. He doesn't demand more attention. He can be single covered effectively as Hall did to him on the Raiders game this year and sure 4 rec for 65 yards is good for a good #2, but not a true #1.

 

A real #1 is accountable on every play. Evans is so one dimensional he only plays 1/3 of the field. Ask yourself if it's a lot easier to game plan for 1/3 of the field of 100% of the field? That's why I think he lacks what it takes to do it, not his talent. The man is EXTREMELY talented, but he will never do it unless he's willing to play hard-nosed football.

 

I'll tell you the true comparison: Chad Johnson. They are almost the same weight and Johnson is 2 inches taller. I'd say Evans is (gulp) more talented than Chad Johnson, but Johnson is a true #1 and Evans is not. Go watch them play. Johnson needs to be reckoned with every play because he can be anywhere. The reality is Evans could have Johnson like #s and be a bigger asset to the team if he was willing to do more for the team.

 

Remember when Johnson was laid out by our Bills? Where was he? The middle of the field.

 

 

A WR is only as good as the QB throwing to him. Every example you mention those are better QBs than Edwards. Welker has to be accounted for every play because he plays opposite Randy Moss and even more importantly catches balls thrown by Tom Brady. Chad Johnson another great example you use. He has a real QB in Palmer and his 3year stats are 1117 and 6 TDs. Sounds like almost the exact same production as Lee Evans again making my point he is a true #1 just like Coles, just like Ochocinco. All without a premier QB. This isn't rocket science. You can throw out all of your what routes he runs, unquantifiable ability to "bail out" his QB, superlatives like "hard nosed" and all the other stuff but you can't ague with production. He produces exactly like other guys you call #1. Again my assessment of a #1 is based on production and who the other team game plans to take away. That, my friend, is Lee Evans.

 

To the point of his short and over the middle route running. Since Edwards can't or doesn't throw over 20, MAYBE 25, yards in the air, defenses don't have to truly respect the supposed only 1/3 of the field Lee can function in and his speed. This makes it easier to blanket him for all of Edward's short throws. I hope you get that concept. Speed is what Lee does and with a QB that can take advantage of it properly is what opponents fear. We can put it in other terms like basketball. If your team can't hit the 3 point shot the defense will pack it in an plug up the middle and clamp down on the short stuff. If the defense doesn't respect the outside shot it is extremely difficult to drive the lane and get lay ups or uncontested shots in the paint.

 

You can't blame the ills of the QB on the WR. Time to put the blame where is should lay. Edwards has a lot of improving to do.

Posted
Steve Smith, Laveneus Coles, and other small receivers go over the middle of the field that are #1s. All I'm saying is that thin guys do go over the middle all the time and are #1s and under 200 lbs: Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, etc..

 

But I appreciate the nicer tone, now we can have a conversation. Imagine if I said "You are an Evans lover and will do anything to defend Evans!"

 

But let's continue, let's say you don't go over the middle. You are effectively making the CB's job a breeze where he only has to move in 2 directions rather than 3. You can also exploit softness in the middle of the field. If you want to see 2 masters of this watch Wes Welker and Steve Smith. I know Evans is better than Welker, but even though Welker is smaller he's got balls, so does Smith. That's why they can use their speed to be WIDE open by using the whole field.

 

This makes me believe 1 of 2 things: Either he doesn't have the balls to be a football player, or the coaches are afraid he'll get hurt. I've never seen a coach in my life who plays so the players don't get hurt. I've seen Evans short-arm many passes he heard the footsteps on.

 

My point is a true #1 opens up things for other receivers, he doesn't do that, and a true #1 can take over a game, and not every game, but 2 or 4 games a season.

 

Sure he's a great deep ball WR, but so is Devery Henderson, but I wouldn't consider him or Henderson a #1, although Evans has much better hands than Henderson.

 

I've said this before, and it may have been to you, but are you insinuating that Evans refuses to go across the middle?? Like he's telling the coaches, "Hey, thanks for the route recommendations, but I'd rather not cut across the LB's, so I'll just streak down the field instead."

 

I doubt this, but I'll believe when you can back your accusations with links....

Posted
I've said this before, and it may have been to you, but are you insinuating that Evans refuses to go across the middle?? Like he's telling the coaches, "Hey, thanks for the route recommendations, but I'd rather not cut across the LB's, so I'll just streak down the field instead."

 

I doubt this, but I'll believe when you can back your accusations with links....

 

 

No links ae needed when you simply look at the results.

Posted
I want you to understand something first of all, I think Evans has just as much talent as Reggie Wayne, but the problem is he doesn't want to be used in the same way as Wayne. I think he is more talented than Laveranues Coles as I used in an example, my problem isn't that he's not the same caliber, it's how he is used and how he is willing to be an asset to the team.

 

Let's go back to Coles in his first 5 seasons to Lee's. Coles started slow in his first 2 years, in years 3-5 he averaged around 85 receptions a season and 1138 yards a season. Evans did better in his first 2 years, but in the years 3-5 he averaged 66 receptions and 1052 yards a season.

 

My issue is with his production in receptions and his games as he had 4 games with only 2 receptions, 5 games with 4 receptions, and 1 game with 3 receptions. To me that's not a go to #1 receiver. To me a #1 is the guy who can bail a QB out with either quickness or strength or both.

 

Right now I'd take how Wes Welker playing over Lee Evans. That bastard must be accounted for EVERY game he plays. Lee can be taken out if the D prepares for him, and they cannot prepare for Welker because he's the midget who plays with heart and toughness and makes the D want to die every time Brady has more than 4 seconds because he's ALWAYS open underneath. Don't you think Evans could do even better than Welker? I think so and know so because he has better hands and is faster.

 

My overall point is that a true #1 must be reckoned with and is a true bailout for the QB. Smith just finds ways to get open, Fitzgerald you just need to throw up the ball and see him come down with it, Andre Smith is just huge and physical, and the list goes on. Evans is a glorified #2 playing #1 position.

 

The only way Lee looks better is with a #1 receiver. He doesn't demand more attention. He can be single covered effectively as Hall did to him on the Raiders game this year and sure 4 rec for 65 yards is good for a good #2, but not a true #1.

 

A real #1 is accountable on every play. Evans is so one dimensional he only plays 1/3 of the field. Ask yourself if it's a lot easier to game plan for 1/3 of the field of 100% of the field? That's why I think he lacks what it takes to do it, not his talent. The man is EXTREMELY talented, but he will never do it unless he's willing to play hard-nosed football.

 

I'll tell you the true comparison: Chad Johnson. They are almost the same weight and Johnson is 2 inches taller. I'd say Evans is (gulp) more talented than Chad Johnson, but Johnson is a true #1 and Evans is not. Go watch them play. Johnson needs to be reckoned with every play because he can be anywhere. The reality is Evans could have Johnson like #s and be a bigger asset to the team if he was willing to do more for the team.

 

Remember when Johnson was laid out by our Bills? Where was he? The middle of the field.

The biggest difference between Evans and Reggie Wayne? Peyton Manning vs. Trent Edwards/J.P. Losman/Drew Bledsoe, etc. -Enough said!

Posted
The biggest difference between Evans and Reggie Wayne? Peyton Manning vs. Trent Edwards/J.P. Losman/Drew Bledsoe, etc. -Enough said!

 

 

I disagree. Yes, QB can play a part but the WR MUST attack the ball as well.

Posted
No secret that I think Roscoe is a tool when it comes to WR play. IMO he is a gimmick guy and a punt returner not a NFL wide receiver. I am also having my doubts that Lee can pull off the #1. If so, it is all the more important to get TO back on the field and developing chemistry with Trent. The Bills looked like the same bumbling team from last year against the Packers.

 

I am not saying the season is doomed on the basis of one preseason game. However, I am saying the Bills will find it very hard to rise above mediocrity if TO does not get and stay healthy this year.

Are you retarded Evans is better that TO or maybe 1000 yards receiving with no true 2nd wideout is easy.

Posted
I watched the INT again last night. Lee Evans waited on the ball while the DB attacked the ball.

 

Again it is amazing how two people can watch the same thing and see to different things. What I saw at 12:34 - 12:33 on the clock in the first quarter is Trent make a little hesitation, hitch, jerk before finally releasing the ball late. I saw Lee get to the spot where the ball was supposed to be and position himself properly to shield the ball. I saw a DB run through his back on a no call pass interference. I also remember hearing former NFL player commentators say that Edwards threw the ball late.

 

But I guess you see what you want to see.

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