MattyT Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Did anybody see Trent change the play at the line of scrimmage? Even once? I saw Fitz do it at least twice. I get the feeling that even when Trent gets the other team to show their hand, that he either isn't confident to make a change or doesn't know what to do. Are you telling me he couldn't see the edge blitz that one time? Green Bay wasn't even trying to hide it. I guess my point is....why have this no huddle system if our QB doesn't appear willing or able to take advantage of it? I don't like to overreact, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'm concerned.
BuffaloBill Posted August 24, 2009 Author Posted August 24, 2009 Every time somebody bangs this "Evans isn't a true #1 WR" drum, I am forced to point out that Evans' numbers through 5 seasons are on par with those posted by Andre Reed through 5 seasons. See for yourself: http://www.nfl.com/players/leeevans/profile?id=EVA454901 http://www.nfl.com/players/andrereed/profile?id=REE121548 Totals Evans: 296 rec--4,744 yds--32 TDs Reed: 317 rec--4,408 yds--31 TDs Now unless anyone is going to try to sell me the idea that Andre Reed--twice a semi-finalist for the Pro Football HOF--wasn't a #1 WR, this argument about Evans is foolishness. Next. While your stats make a point - Reed was not the defacto #1 during that entire stretch. The Bills have put Evans in that role. My point in this post is to simply say that Evans is a great #2 receiver. He has not been able to carry the load as a number one. He does not now nor likely ever will strike fear into the the opposing defense. You take away his deep game there is little else in the tank. Reed was effective deep and on intermediate routes. he was also a master at turning short routes into long gains. Don't get me wrong, I think Evans has a huge year this year if T.O. stays healthy. The other point I was making was that if Evans is the only threat at WR then he can't be effective. Anyone who really believes Roscoe Parrish is an effective #2 is smoking crack. Jam Roscoe at the line, have nobody in the middle because the TE has to chip somebody and your back must do the same before taking the 5 yard dump route then it is no wonder Evans can't shine. Start by popping the Roscoe - I am going to be an effective NFL WR hoax - and pray that TO stays healthy. If so Evans has a shot at being very good.
PDaDdy Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Ahem. You are right. It is not Lee Evans' fault that he gets totally shut down. He is not a #1 receiver. He gets double teamed and has no tools to defeat that. He is a one trick pony, and when you don't have a legitimate all-over-the-field threat across from him, he won't be at all effective. It also is not Trent's fault, as you just cannot throw the ball to a receiver who is as covered as you can possibly be. Without T.O. in the game, the Bills are doomed. Plain and simple. That is patently untrue!!! Tweedledumber JP Losman somehow managed to make Lee Evans a 1000+ yd 7+ TD wide receiver and he was a dolt!!!! Tell us again how Evans can't get open?
Kelly the Dog Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Every time somebody bangs this "Evans isn't a true #1 WR" drum, I am forced to point out that Evans' numbers through 5 seasons are on par with those posted by Andre Reed through 5 seasons. See for yourself: http://www.nfl.com/players/leeevans/profile?id=EVA454901 http://www.nfl.com/players/andrereed/profile?id=REE121548 Totals Evans: 296 rec--4,744 yds--32 TDs Reed: 317 rec--4,408 yds--31 TDs Now unless anyone is going to try to sell me the idea that Andre Reed--twice a semi-finalist for the Pro Football HOF--wasn't a #1 WR, this argument about Evans is foolishness. Next. Yeah, but Evans has had way better quarterbacking than Reed ever did, so his numbers are inflated.
PDaDdy Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Yeah, but Evans has had way better quarterbacking than Reed ever did, so his numbers are inflated. LOL!!!!!
2003Contenders Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 I don't know. It just seems like the great WRs always find a way to get open when the chips are down, and Evans just doesn't do that. Rarely do I see him fight for a contested pass -- and he seems to have a lot of balls intercepted from him. I am sure that less than stellar QB play certainly is responsible for that to a certain extent -- and I have to believe that Lee will be helped tremendously by the return of TO. It would also help if the coaching staff could devise schemes and routes to place him in better situations.
Heels20X6 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Color me concerned....I want more than anything for Trent to be successful and put a stop to the revolving door that is Bills Starting QB but his work in the preseason, in combination with his play down the stretch last year, Jauron coaching him, and essentially a rookie O-Line.....he just has a lot working against him. Yes, it's ONLY pre-season, but when your starting group hasn't thrown one touchdown yet in 4 games....time to get worried.
thebandit27 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 I don't know. It just seems like the great WRs always find a way to get open when the chips are down, and Evans just doesn't do that. Rarely do I see him fight for a contested pass -- and he seems to have a lot of balls intercepted from him. I am sure that less than stellar QB play certainly is responsible for that to a certain extent -- and I have to believe that Lee will be helped tremendously by the return of TO. It would also help if the coaching staff could devise schemes and routes to place him in better situations. I'd argue that, regardless of the WRs, great QBs find a way to get the ball to their receivers regardless of who they are. Tom Brady won 2 Superbowls with guys like David Givens, Troy Brown, and David Patten. Drew Brees doesn't have anything special at WR in New Orleans, where Colston is (in the least) no better than Evans. Donovan McNabb has made multiple Pro Bowls and had the benefit of a good WR for about 17 seconds of his career. I agree with your last sentance...if you want to put the blame on anyone other than Edwards, go with the coaching staff for failure to place the WRs in good positions. Also, regarding whether or not Evans fights for passes, 2007 @ NYJ (Darelle Revis) ring a bell? Just sayin'.
zdro22 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Lee Evans is a #1 WR. He's not Larry Fitzgerald. We know this. There are PLENTY of teams out there that would LOVE to have this guy. It's not his fault if Trent can't throw a deep ball. Don't blame Lee for being something he is not. What he is is a field stretching deep threat. That is not Trent's strength. What he is not is an over the middle 6'4" 220lb big body. Evans is NOT a #1 reciever. You cant gameplan and take out #1 wrs as easily as you can do with Evans. You roll a safety over the top on evans and is then rendered useless. If he isnt catching go routes he isnt doing anything. Hes too small to be a #1. Steve Smith is shorter to but has the balls/tenacity to go over the middle and pile up some yacs. Evans can have a good year with Owens healthy. Without a healthy owens this offense sill SUCK
zdro22 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Every time somebody bangs this "Evans isn't a true #1 WR" drum, I am forced to point out that Evans' numbers through 5 seasons are on par with those posted by Andre Reed through 5 seasons. See for yourself: http://www.nfl.com/players/leeevans/profile?id=EVA454901 http://www.nfl.com/players/andrereed/profile?id=REE121548 Totals Evans: 296 rec--4,744 yds--32 TDs Reed: 317 rec--4,408 yds--31 TDs Now unless anyone is going to try to sell me the idea that Andre Reed--twice a semi-finalist for the Pro Football HOF--wasn't a #1 WR, this argument about Evans is foolishness. Next. The NFL of 2009 is not the NFL of 1989. This is a much more pass happy league. #1 wrs numbers from the 80s are not #1wr #s from today. Why the hell do you think Reed is having a hard time getting in, his number look less and less impressive with todays offenses. You cant compare eras evenly, sorry it is too easy to take him out of the game.
PDaDdy Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 I'd argue that, regardless of the WRs, great QBs find a way to get the ball to their receivers regardless of who they are. Tom Brady won 2 Superbowls with guys like David Givens, Troy Brown, and David Patten. Drew Brees doesn't have anything special at WR in New Orleans, where Colston is (in the least) no better than Evans. Donovan McNabb has made multiple Pro Bowls and had the benefit of a good WR for about 17 seconds of his career. I agree with your last sentance...if you want to put the blame on anyone other than Edwards, go with the coaching staff for failure to place the WRs in good positions. Also, regarding whether or not Evans fights for passes, 2007 @ NYJ (Darelle Revis) ring a bell? Just sayin'. I love this retort to the "good WR find ways to get open" argument. What most people don't seem to get is that both statements have some validity. If you really think about it I think this is Trent's A#1 problem as a QB: He doesn't anticipate his WR making the break and he waits until they are wide open!!!!!!!! REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT! For short underneath check down passes, which seem to be a staple of his game and touted completion percentage, this is not a problem. The ball is in the air a very short period of time and the defense doesn't have much time to make a play. Now...do the same thing down field and you have a problem. With Trent's lack of arm strength the ball is going to be in the air a long time giving the defense plenty of time to adjust and make a play on the ball. Hello interception Saturday night. I want to say it was concussion boy Troy Aikman who used to say "if you wait for a wide receiver to be open to throw him the ball, it's already to late" If Trent can pull the trigger and make these throws a second earlier it could really improve his game. Well, that and actually run the no huddle a bit more up tempo like Fitz did.
CarwellGardner Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 How is this that much of a surprise to ANY veteran Bills fan who is really honest with where our team is currently!?!? Couple of points to consider here: 1) GB has one of the best (and most physical) secondaries (specifically starting corners) in the league - 3 players in '08 Pro Bowl 2) we will all have to remember this each and every game - 5 NEW STARTERS on the o-line (3 of which have been asked to make position changes!?!) 3) is it any real surprise that Edwards struggled with reads against a 3-4 in light of last years results vs same?? 4) you're #1 offensive weapon (that would completely dictate coverage changes) did not play - TO 5) GB's offense will be one of the top 5 this year IMO 6) GB's coaching is (Capers - Def/McCarthy - Off) superior to what we have currently It's all well and good to be passionate about our Bills but (and I struggle with this as much as anyone) we have to be realistic with what to expect. 7-9?
Heels20X6 Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 7-9? 5-11, with 3 of those wins coming from intern head coach Bobby April.
PDaDdy Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Evans is NOT a #1 reciever. You cant gameplan and take out #1 wrs as easily as you can do with Evans. You roll a safety over the top on evans and is then rendered useless. If he isnt catching go routes he isnt doing anything. Hes too small to be a #1. Steve Smith is shorter to but has the balls/tenacity to go over the middle and pile up some yacs. Evans can have a good year with Owens healthy. Without a healthy owens this offense sill SUCK That's kind of a stretch don't you think? Please give me a list of WR that get double teamed and have a safety rolled over the top and can still put up numbers? I think your talking about an EXTREMELY small list of probably less than 5 WR tops. I'll also wager that those WR have QBs with big arms that can throw a ball in the air more than 25 yds. Larry Fitzgerald has Kurt Warner Randy Moss has Tom Brady Steve Smith has Jake Delhomme These guys have big arms. Put those WR on teams with a noodle arm QB that waits until they are completely wide open before they throw the ball and tell me how they would fair. I think what you think is a simple #1 WR is actually a superstar WR. OH..I also forgot to point out that those guys also have a supporting cast. Moss has Welker and now Galloway, Fitz has Boldin and Breaston who are also both 1000yrd WR. In truth I may be missing your point though if your contention is that you can't be a #1 WR if you aren't a 6'2"+ 220+ lb big body WR. Obviously Lee is not that. But, you don't buy a Ferrari and then complain that it can't tow your boat like a truck.
Rico Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 If you want to see a true #1 WR , just wait until T.O. returns. He completely outclasses Evans on the field.
KD in CA Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 5-11, with 3 of those wins coming from intern head coach Bobby April. I'd take 5-11 right now in exchange for that change.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 There is A LOT of blame to go around with this team, but I would not put it on Evans. He cannot throw the ball to himself people. Insert Evans into Indy's offense and watch Peyton Manning make him a bonafide star... In watching the interception replay, it seemed like Lee was waiting for the ball to come to him instead of coming back to the ball. I feel I have noticed this before. The DB attacked the ball, which led to the deflection and eventual interception. It seems elite receivers are more aggressive coming back to the ball, particularly on stops, curls, etc. This is also what we were all taught in football, lacrosse, basketball and soccer, etc. Come back to the ball, don't wait for it to come to you, right? Following the logic, Lee would best compliment the QB's with a cannon arm, which might explain why Evans seemed more compatible with Losman than the weaker armed Trent as footballs delivered with higher velocity are less critical to attack. Just throwing an observation out there fishing for thoughts and comments. Interested in holes in the reasoning or other observations.
PDaDdy Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 If you want to see a true #1 WR , just wait until T.O. returns. He completely outclasses Evans on the field. I hope the statistically 2nd best WR to EVER play the game does completely outclass Evans. No shame in that I say. Assuming TO gets/stays healthy and Edwards takes some risks I think Lee will have a great year. Lee only had a legit WR opposite him his first year or 2 in Eric Moulds. I expect that kind of production again with a credible threat opposite him.
PDaDdy Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 In watching the interception replay, it seemed like Lee was waiting for the ball to come to him instead of coming back to the ball. I feel I have noticed this before. The DB attacked the ball, which led to the deflection and eventual interception. It seems elite receivers are more aggressive coming back to the ball, particularly on stops, curls, etc. This is also what we were all taught in football, lacrosse, basketball and soccer, etc. Come back to the ball, don't wait for it to come to you, right? Following the logic, Lee would best compliment the QB's with a cannon arm, which might explain why Evans seemed more compatible with Losman than the weaker armed Trent as footballs delivered with higher velocity are less critical to attack. Just throwing an observation out there fishing for thoughts and comments. Interested in holes in the reasoning or other observations. It's amazing that we can see the same thing and draw 2 different conclusions. You're absolutely correct though. Lee WAS waiting for the ball on his comeback route...it was thrown late!!! That ball is supposed to be on him when he is making his break back to the QB. WR don't make their break and then immediately start sprinting back to the QB in case the ball is thrown late or slow. They are supposed to be at a specific spot at a specific time and the ball is too!!!! That being said the no call on what could have been pass interference was as much a factor as trying to blame someone in a Bills uniform.
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