billsfan89 Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 I was talking to a friend who is a Giants fan and he said that the biggest problem with Buffalo in the last decade plus was the coaching because it breed a culture of loosing. He said Jauron was the epitome of what Buffalo had been missing for the better part of a decade. Jauron makes bad clock management decisions is too weak with in game play calling and long term he never makes good adjustments as well as he consitantly gets out coached form a game plan perspective. Now this isn't a bash Jauron thread but more of has coaching been what we have been missing and has that hole at that spot for so long been what has bread this 10 playoff dry spell. I mean Wade Phillips was the last coach to get us into the playoffs but he has never won a playoff game ever either here or now in Dallas. Since than the Gregg Williams era was a huge bust, Malarkey was the last coach to get an above .500 record but he resigned after a 5-11 season and wasn't setting the world on fire while he was here. I have already went through DJ's inefficencies so has a lack of a good head coach bread a bad culture. I know some will point to lack of a QB and an offensive line but coaching could have compensated for that. I mean Bledsoe was a decent QB and the O-line's could have been better with more coaching and a different draft philosophy. Also better coaching could have led to more Free agents coming here which could have led to a better overall product. I am right to think that the whole reason our team has had this ineptitude for so long is coaching? If not has Ralph or lack of quality QB or offensive line play been the contributing factor?
DIE HARD 1967 Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 I think it has been the continuous coaching changes and switching GMs that caused much of the problem Also, Wilson likes bright young assistants over proven head coaches Proven head coaches demand a small measure of control and Ralph will never agree to that!
billsfan89 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Posted August 20, 2009 I think it has been the continuous coaching changes and switching GMs that caused much of the problem Also, Wilson likes bright young assistants over proven head coaches Proven head coaches demand a small measure of control and Ralph will never agree to that! I don't mind Wilson wanting control but even the assistants he brings in aren't that high in demand. Mularky wasn't that high up on peoples wish lists neither was DJ (Who had coached before). I don't know if Gregg Williams was a high in demand coaching candidate when we hired him.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 If we had Manning or Brady, we won't have been out of the playoffs for a decade. Coaching in the NFL is so overrated. The only decent QB we had in 10 years was Bledsoe and we should have made the playoffs. It comes down to QB play first and then oline/ dline. We have had a decent dline in the last 10 years but our QB and oline play has been lacking. Everything else is just gravy.
DIE HARD 1967 Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 I don't mind Wilson wanting control but even the assistants he brings in aren't that high in demand. Mularky wasn't that high up on peoples wish lists neither was DJ (Who had coached before). I don't know if Gregg Williams was a high in demand coaching candidate when we hired him. Jauron was the only one with head coaching experience. Mularky and Williams never got another chance, and perhaps never will I would like Jon Gruden, but that only me!
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Jauron was the only one with head coaching experience. Mularky and Williams never got another chance, and perhaps never will I would like Jon Gruden, but that only me! Mularkey wasn't as bad of a caoch as he was made out to be. Losman killed his career here jsut like he did to Jauron's first 2 seasons.
billsfan89 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Posted August 21, 2009 If we had Manning or Brady, we won't have been out of the playoffs for a decade. Coaching in the NFL is so overrated. The only decent QB we had in 10 years was Bledsoe and we should have made the playoffs. It comes down to QB play first and then oline/ dline. We have had a decent dline in the last 10 years but our QB and oline play has been lacking. Everything else is just gravy. I don't think anyone will say that lack of a quality QB has hampered this franchise but isn't coaching just as big a problem? I mean Bledsoe gave us a few quality QB years and we didn't make the playoffs. I think even if we had a mid level QB we probably would have only made the playoffs once maybe twice over the last decade. I think coaching goes hand and hand with QB play and the quality of the team. Over the last decade we have had bad coaching staff and had a good coaching staff been able to develop a QB or shield the differences of a QB like JP or an aging Bledsoe. To me we don't maximize the talent we have and our coaching often hampers the progress of players and has terrible drafting tendencies (TD going for Fat Mike, JP, and Mcgahee as well as DJ going for too many DB's) which long term holds back a franchise. Like I said a QB is obviously important to a franchise but unless you have an elite QB bad coaching will hamper the franchise big time. And its hard to get a quality QB but its easier (If you are willing to pay for one) to get a good head coach.
Bill from NYC Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Look, Mr. Wilson is a good man, but ultimately it is he who hires people. Bringing back Levy set a chain of incompetence in motion. Some will deny this because they like Marv so much. I understand; he IS a good man. So is Jauron, but Levy was WAY over the hill and Jauron is a serial loser.
BillsVet Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Coaching in the NFL is so overrated. Tell that to Tony Sparano and Mike Smith. While you're at it, ask John Harbaugh as well. The NFL is a league built on parity where most teams have roughly the same talent level, hence all the 7-9, 8-8, and 9-7 clubs. When you've got a guy who makes good decisions, can manage the clock, and puts players into positions to succeed, you'll win. Most of the franchises do not have elite coaches. Surprisingly, it's the teams that do which make the playoffs year in and year out. I'm referring to Belichick, whoever Pittsburgh has/had, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, and perhaps Tom Coughlin. And there are plenty of up and coming coaches. You cannot tell me with a straight face that an average to above average coach would have gone 2-8 in the final ten games last season.
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Coaching is a big part of the modern game. Who calls the plays? The way some would wish it, Bill Walsh was an average coach that was nothing but lucky when he happened to land a 3rd round QB named Joe, his revolutionizing the game was no big deal. He had 2 losing seasons to start out his career and we should stop there because we wouldn't want the 3rd season, when he won a Super Bowl, to be discussed. Don Shula had 2 losing seasons out of 33 with two different organizations because he always had great QBs carrying him around. Kiick who? Csonka what the fug? Joe Gibbs had 3 losing seasons out of 16 and won 3 Super Bowls on the coattails of a number of gifted QBs like Mark Rypien. Oh, I sure these examples don't count because they somehow, actually miraculously given the time spans involved, always had more talented rosters than the rest of the NFL.
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Tell that to Tony Sparano and Mike Smith. While you're at it, ask John Harbaugh as well. The NFL is a league built on parity where most teams have roughly the same talent level, hence all the 7-9, 8-8, and 9-7 clubs. When you've got a guy who makes good decisions, can manage the clock, and puts players into positions to succeed, you'll win. Most of the franchises do not have elite coaches. Surprisingly, it's the teams that do which make the playoffs year in and year out. I'm referring to Belichick, whoever Pittsburgh has/had, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, and perhaps Tom Coughlin. And there are plenty of up and coming coaches. You cannot tell me with a straight face that an average to above average coach would have gone 2-8 in the final ten games last season. C. Biscuit is just a blind and clueless homer. I can name 12 coaches that would have had the Bills in the Playoffs last season.
Cynical Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Tell that to Tony Sparano and Mike Smith. While you're at it, ask John Harbaugh as well. The NFL is a league built on parity where most teams have roughly the same talent level, hence all the 7-9, 8-8, and 9-7 clubs. When you've got a guy who makes good decisions, can manage the clock, and puts players into positions to succeed, you'll win. Most of the franchises do not have elite coaches. Surprisingly, it's the teams that do which make the playoffs year in and year out. I'm referring to Belichick, whoever Pittsburgh has/had, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, and perhaps Tom Coughlin. And there are plenty of up and coming coaches. You cannot tell me with a straight face that an average to above average coach would have gone 2-8 in the final ten games last season. I already tried that approach with him. He still doesn't get it. I even brought up coaches like Parcells, Reeves, Shula, and Holmgren (coaches that to the SB with different teams) I mentioned coaches like Gibbs and Cowher (made the SB multiple times with the same team, but different QB) I even mentioned the Ravens and Dilfer. He even came up with an excuse regarding Shanahan (according to him, Shanahan has the ability to get more out of players like Cutler) Like a typical apologist, he has an excuse for every example. I always wondered. How many exceptions to a rule must there be before it becomes obvious the rule is the exception and the exceptions are the rule? 1 winning season out of 8. Which is the exception, and which is the rule?
Coach Tuesday Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 First off stop taking advice from Giants fans. Second, no, it's the owner. Ralph doesn't spend the incremental additional dollars necessary for proper coaching, talent evaluation, facilities, and strength and conditioning. Everything flows from that.
GR8PRKN Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Mularkey wasn't as bad of a caoch as he was made out to be. Losman killed his career here jsut like he did to Jauron's first 2 seasons. Thats a good point.. But Mularkey got scared of Marv and bolted
billsfan89 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Posted August 21, 2009 First off stop taking advice from Giants fans. Second, no, it's the owner. Ralph doesn't spend the incremental additional dollars necessary for proper coaching, talent evaluation, facilities, and strength and conditioning. Everything flows from that. I live in New Jersey so if I want to talk football usually its Giants or Jets fans and Jets fans are clueless and think that the Jets are going 11-5 or 12-4 and are going to win the super bowl regardless of the talent level of the team. I met a Jet fan who actually thought they were going to have 6 or 7 shut outs with their defense . So Giants fans (Yeah a lot of them are clueless homers but there are a lot of those with any fan bases) are the better of the bunch. But as far as Ralph goes yeah I guess if you look why we don't have good coaching it comes down to him, he sets the budget for both the head coach and assistant staffs and hires the GM's. Yeah I like Ralph but its his cheapness in certain situations (Like coaches and GM's) that gets me frustrated with him. Ralph spends money on players and keeps ticket prices low but why does he not spend money on coaches and make the right hire on GM's? When it comes to Ralph and hiring coaches he is penny wise and dollar stupid (Don't get me wrong I still like him as an owner).
keepthefaith Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Tell that to Tony Sparano and Mike Smith. While you're at it, ask John Harbaugh as well. The NFL is a league built on parity where most teams have roughly the same talent level, hence all the 7-9, 8-8, and 9-7 clubs. When you've got a guy who makes good decisions, can manage the clock, and puts players into positions to succeed, you'll win. Most of the franchises do not have elite coaches. Surprisingly, it's the teams that do which make the playoffs year in and year out. I'm referring to Belichick, whoever Pittsburgh has/had, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, and perhaps Tom Coughlin. And there are plenty of up and coming coaches. You cannot tell me with a straight face that an average to above average coach would have gone 2-8 in the final ten games last season. Agree. The "coaching is overrated" comment is mind boggling. Particulary in Jauron's case. We're told that Jauron has a lot of say in personnel decisions. That means he not only bears the responsibility of developing talent, he is also picking it to some extent. If you aren't happy with the Bills' talent, then the problem is either a lack of raw talent or the inability to develop promising talent. In either case, Jauron has responsibility. Jauron hired his assistant coaches including an offensive coodinator that was hired from with with no prior coordinator experience and without interviewing a single other candidate. He also hired a defensive coordinator with no prior experience in that position. Furthermore, Jauron makes the decision on the design of both the offense and the defense which is the Tampa 2 and whatever you call this offense. He also approves of and has input into weekly game plans, play calling and many in-game decisions. The Bills to a great extent are his product. Given the level of input in so many areas, he would be due significant credit for both success and failure of this team.
BillsVet Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 I already tried that approach with him. He still doesn't get it. I even brought up coaches like Parcells, Reeves, Shula, and Holmgren (coaches that to the SB with different teams) I mentioned coaches like Gibbs and Cowher (made the SB multiple times with the same team, but different QB) I even mentioned the Ravens and Dilfer. He even came up with an excuse regarding Shanahan (according to him, Shanahan has the ability to get more out of players like Cutler) Like a typical apologist, he has an excuse for every example. I always wondered. How many exceptions to a rule must there be before it becomes obvious the rule is the exception and the exceptions are the rule? 1 winning season out of 8. Which is the exception, and which is the rule? I can't believe how he defends a coach with 1 playoff appearance in 8 years working for a team with 0 post-season berths in 9 seasons. Give the guy credit, he's never been wrong. Never. If the Bills had no talent last season, then Miami was a college team. The Dolfelons had no business being more than 6-10, but their staff came up with a soon-to-be copied offense which helped disguise their shortcomings. Isn't that what a coach is supposed to do? Right, I forgot you could plug in Elmer Fudd and Buffalo would still lose. Elmer doesn't have the talent to win, even though he's had lots of personnel input since Day 1.
Ramius Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Mularkey wasn't as bad of a caoch as he was made out to be. Losman killed his career here jsut like he did to Jauron's first 2 seasons. Yeah, Losman sure trashed Jauron's first year here when he tossed 19 TDs and had a 85 QB rating while starting all 16 games. Jauron made his own bed by playing yo-yo with the QBs in 2007. Jauron killed himself in 2007 by not forcing fairtard to design an offense to play to Losman's strengths. This isn't an argument about how successful Losman would have been. Its a simple FACT that the 2007 offense was not designed to the personnell we had on the team. But again, jauron has always shown a propensity to ignore and/or misuse the talent he has in favor of a "system." In the NFL, there is little talent differential between most teams. There's 5-6 teams in the NFL that have 12+ win talent, and theres 5-6 teams that have 5 or less win talent. The other 20 teams all have mid range 6-10 win talent. Whether or not they end up at 6 wins and draft top 10 or end up at 10 wins and make the playoffs is a function of coaching. This is where the Bills fall woefully short. We are severly lacking in the coaching department and that is the single biggest reason why we have failed, especially in the last 3 years. The Bills probably have the talent to win 9-10 games. They did last year as well. Unfortunately, dick jauron is good for -3 in the win column each and every season due to his bonehead playing and game management and his weak,spineless, and fearful coaching style, Thsi is where you get the repeated 7-9 seasons (which he's had 4 in a row of, counting chicago). When something happens 7/8 times, the 7 times are not the exception, they are the rule. dick jauron is a proven loser, plain and simple. There's little doubt that at least a dozen coaches would have had the Bills in the playoffs last season, and theres probably 2 dozen current coaches that could have put us in after the 5-1 start.
KD in CA Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Losing is a disease......as contagious as polio. Losing is a disease......as contagious as syphilis. Losing is a disease......as contagious as bubonic plague......attacking one......but infecting all.
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