Unusual Explanations for the Obesity Epidemic

[John Adams]

Yes it is that simple. Eating healthy can be cheaper but if it's not it's only a small amount more. And why does eating healthy in your book not taste better? Your two middle reasons are the main reasons. Time and covenience.

 

I forgot to address that point in his argument. I want him to tell me that a McDs burger tastes better than a grilled (or even fried) homemade burger.

 

In terms of price, one lb of ground beef (a pound--that's a giant burger) costs maybe $4...and the roll perhaps 30 cents. Takes what? Maybe 5-10 minutes to prepare?

 

So yes: It's simple.

[Kevbeau]

Do you not realize that money is an enormous problem in this country? You act like everyone can afford everything, and it is their decision whether to eat healthy or not.

 

It really is not that simple. Not eating healthy is cheaper, more convenient, saves time, and tastes better.

 

Caught a special on child hunger in America a few weeks ago (60 minutes, 20/20, something like that). The thing that stands out to me was one woman wailing about how she can't feed her kids.....while holding her Blackberry...... with her freshly manicured nails......to go along with her expensive looking hairstyle.

 

Not saying this is the norm, but everyone has choices to make.

[Fezmid]

Since you have trouble reading, i'll repeat myself from above.

 

Actually, it appears that you're the one who has trouble reading, since you're using anecdotal evidence as opposed to the actual study I quoted:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/health/n...ion/04well.html

 

"Studies show that junk foods tend to cost less than fruits, vegetables and other healthful foods, whose prices continue to rise."

 

"Last year, Dr. Drewnowski led a study, published in The Journal of the American Dietetic Association, comparing the prices of 370 foods sold at supermarkets in the Seattle area. The study showed that “energy dense” junk foods, which pack the most calories and fewest nutrients per gram, were far less expensive than nutrient-rich, lower-calorie foods like fruits and vegetables. The prices of the most healthful foods surged 19.5 percent over the two-year study period, while the junk food prices dropped 1.8 percent."

[ExiledInIllinois]

I forgot to address that point in his argument. I want him to tell me that a McDs burger tastes better than a grilled (or even fried) homemade burger.

 

In terms of price, one lb of ground beef (a pound--that's a giant burger) costs maybe $4...and the roll perhaps 30 cents. Takes what? Maybe 5-10 minutes to prepare?

 

So yes: It's simple.

 

Most people who do any real work to begin with in this country don't want to come home and work some more. And that is to an extent their fault. The LAST thing I want to do when I get home is go outside or do any physical activity. What I am saying is the situation is very problematic if one actually has to work for a living. Now if I sat behind a desk for 8 STRAIGHT hours... I may want to rethink that and want to do some physical activity.

[Ramius]

Actually, it appears that you're the one who has trouble reading, since you're using anecdotal evidence as opposed to the actual study I quoted:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/health/n...ion/04well.html

 

"Studies show that junk foods tend to cost less than fruits, vegetables and other healthful foods, whose prices continue to rise."

 

"Last year, Dr. Drewnowski led a study, published in The Journal of the American Dietetic Association, comparing the prices of 370 foods sold at supermarkets in the Seattle area. The study showed that “energy dense” junk foods, which pack the most calories and fewest nutrients per gram, were far less expensive than nutrient-rich, lower-calorie foods like fruits and vegetables. The prices of the most healthful foods surged 19.5 percent over the two-year study period, while the junk food prices dropped 1.8 percent."

 

But its not. I don't give a rat's ass what some random study shows. (Especially when the study is comparing the most healthful food, not to mention these people were trying to eat on $1 per day) I have no problem eating relatively healthy on a tight budget. Frozen/canned veggies aren't as healthy fresh ones, but they'll work just fine for people on a budget, and are still fairly healthy.

 

And i am using anecdotal evidence, because that's what the price of food costs. Sure, prices may differ slightly in different areas of the country, but frozen chicken breast isn't $7 in one place and $25 in another. Reasonably healthy meals can be had for not much more than crap junk food.

[Chef Jim]

Actually, it appears that you're the one who has trouble reading, since you're using anecdotal evidence as opposed to the actual study I quoted:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/health/n...ion/04well.html

 

"Studies show that junk foods tend to cost less than fruits, vegetables and other healthful foods, whose prices continue to rise."

 

"Last year, Dr. Drewnowski led a study, published in The Journal of the American Dietetic Association, comparing the prices of 370 foods sold at supermarkets in the Seattle area. The study showed that “energy dense” junk foods, which pack the most calories and fewest nutrients per gram, were far less expensive than nutrient-rich, lower-calorie foods like fruits and vegetables. The prices of the most healthful foods surged 19.5 percent over the two-year study period, while the junk food prices dropped 1.8 percent."

 

Ok so maybe junk food is cheaper (and I don't necessarily agree with that), but that doesn't automatically mean the healthy food is not affordable.

[Fezmid]

I made an all vegetarian meal on Saturday and it took a couple hours to prepare and it was wonderful.

 

So I wake up at 5:30am... Get to work by 7am. Get home at 6:30pm. And you want me to spend 2 hours cooking a meal so that I don't eat until 8:30pm...?

 

Yes, I realize you said you ate the leftovers on Monday and Tuesday. But what about Wednesday?

 

Time to prepare was one of the points you just dismissed out of hand earlier in the thread.

 

I don't understand the clueless people in this thread who simply blame the individual, instead of the indivudal AND all of the other factors involved. Even when presented with studies proving all of the different reasons, they still dismiss them all. But apparently according to many people in this thread, the real reason is that 63% of Americans are simply lazy. And 20% (and growing) of Chinese are lazy ( http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7564/362 ). And 23% of Canadians (and growing) are lazy ( http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-620-m/2005...es/8060-eng.htm ). Unreal.

[ans4e64]

Since you have trouble reading, i'll repeat myself from above.

 

 

No, it is that simple. When I had no money, I still had plenty of money enough to not eat McDs and frozen foods unless I chose to. Buying a chicken breast and a gallon of 2% is not that hard. Maybe the Fuji apple is expensive but the Macintosh isn't.

 

Stop making excuses for people. Have faith in them instead.

 

 

Yes it is that simple. Eating healthy can be cheaper but if it's not it's only a small amount more. And why does eating healthy in your book not taste better? Your two middle reasons are the main reasons. Time and covenience. People want it fast and they want it now. I made an all vegetarian meal on Saturday and it took a couple hours to prepare and it was wonderful. Oh by the way we ate the left overs on Sunday and Monday.

 

Question...do you cook?

 

Have you guys ever had kids to take care of and entertain, with no significant other, had to work long hours to pay for everything, bills to pay, collectors to dodge, making sure the kids have everything they need, making sure you have everything you need, while living with no money at or below the poverty line?

 

These are my clients every day. The limited amount of time they have to spend at home, because they work such long hours, is spent on much more important things than how healthy the food they are eating is. When you don't have money, and you're living paycheck to paycheck, especially with kids, your priorities are that you ARE EATING, not WHAT you are eating.

 

Everything is in a rush. They have every little thing to worry about. Their kids are crying, they need a bath, this one needs this, this person is calling on the phone asking for this, you owe that, the deadline for this is tomorrow, do they have clothes to wear.. it never ends. The bills and the stress these people rack up is unbelievable. Healthy eating is the least of their problems.

 

Until you've either lived the life or had extensive experience with it, don't tell me how easy it is or inexpensive it is to do something. You think these people have time to go to a library and look up fuggin recipes or spend hours in the grocery store and at home cooking healthy meals? They're lucky they have gas money for the week.

[Fezmid]

But its not. I don't give a rat's ass what some random study shows.

 

Yeah, because why would we beleive scientific evidence?

[ExiledInIllinois]

WOW... I got a 5 pager going... I never get this much debate going... Usually they get sick of me... Ala my wife and sulk away...

[shrader]

But its not. I don't give a rat's ass what some random study shows. (Especially when the study is comparing the most healthful food, not to mention these people were trying to eat on $1 per day) I have no problem eating relatively healthy on a tight budget. Frozen/canned veggies aren't as healthy fresh ones, but they'll work just fine for people on a budget, and are still fairly healthy.

 

And i am using anecdotal evidence, because that's what the price of food costs. Sure, prices may differ slightly in different areas of the country, but frozen chicken breast isn't $7 in one place and $25 in another. Reasonably healthy meals can be had for not much more than crap junk food.

 

If you look around, you'll find a nearly endless list of studies that will say the same exact thing that Fez's link does. The failed assumption that you're working under here is that the typical american is smart and knows all of this. They're not. Most of them are idiots.

[Fezmid]

Until you've either lived the life or had extensive experience with it, don't tell me how easy it is or inexpensive it is to do something.

No, you're dumb. It's obviously easy. It's just that over 60% of people in this country are lazy. Come on, Chef and Ramius said so! They don't care about real scientific studies or to talk to anyone who has lived through it. They're smarter than you and I and know that it's very easy to do. Just spend 2 hours preparing dinner and eat at 9pm! Problem solved!!!

[Fezmid]

WOW... I got a 5 pager going... I never get this much debate going... Usually they get sick of me... Ala my wife and sulk away...

If it makes you feel any better, we're not really talking about plastic anymore

[ans4e64]

How is money an enormous problem? We're talking about obesity rates in the 30%-40% range. Are you actually suggesting that the vast majority of those people don't have enough money to buy healthy food (never mind the fact that people have given all sorts of examples of how to eat healthy and cheaply). The percentage of people who truly can not 'afford' to eat decent food is very small.

 

The only place I've ever spent significant time that was truly impoverished was in rural KY. Interestingly enough, very few of those poor people were fat. In Manhattan? I walk past 250+ lb shamus every 30 seconds. Anyone who is in line at McDonalds has plenty of money to eat properly.

 

So please, stop with the ridiculous characterizations as though you were fear-mongering politician.

 

I work with statistics on this crap every day, so if you want to make statements where you are just assuming things and have no actual evidence for, then have at it.

 

The percentage of people who truly can not 'afford' to eat decent food is very small.

 

Anyone who is in line at McDonalds has plenty of money to eat properly.

 

"The only place I've ever spent significant time that was truly impoverished was in rural KY."

 

Why am I wasting my time?

[Ramius]

If you look around, you'll find a nearly endless list of studies that will say the same exact thing that Fez's link does. The failed assumption that you're working under here is that the typical american is smart and knows all of this. They're not. Most of them are idiots.

 

I'm not assuming the typical american is smart. There's too much evidence to the contrary. However, being stupid doesn't make food more expensive. As chef jim said, just because junk food is cheap doesn't mean reasonably healthy food is unaffordable.

[Chef Jim]

Have you guys ever had kids to take care of and entertain, with no significant other, had to work long hours to pay for everything, bills to pay, collectors to dodge, making sure the kids have everything they need, making sure you have everything you need, while living with no money at or below the poverty line?

 

These are my clients every day. The limited amount of time they have to spend at home, because they work such long hours, is spent on much more important things than how healthy the food they are eating is. When you don't have money, and you're living paycheck to paycheck, especially with kids, your priorities are that you ARE EATING, not WHAT you are eating.

 

Everything is in a rush. They have every little thing to worry about. Their kids are crying, they need a bath, this one needs this, this person is calling on the phone asking for this, you owe that, the deadline for this is tomorrow, do they have clothes to wear.. it never ends. The bills and the stress these people rack up is unbelievable. Healthy eating is the least of their problems.

 

Until you've either lived the life or had extensive experience with it, don't tell me how easy it is or inexpensive it is to do something. You think these people have time to go to a library and look up fuggin recipes or spend hours in the grocery store and at home cooking healthy meals? They're lucky they have gas money for the week.

 

Maybe those people are in the shape they're in because they've made some poor judgement calls in their life. Yeah we don't work long hours and have things to worry about every day. Time is sooooo precious for poor people only. Hey you know what, you're right, I don't have kids, because early on we realized that our lifestyle wouldn't support them. Allowed us to eat half way decent meals when we made a few hundred dollars a week. Maybe they should have thought about that before they started squeezig puppies out. And they have more important things to worry about other than the health of their kids? WTF...

 

I was born rich, was rich in college, was rich right after college, I've been rich all my life...yup that's right. I know nothing about being poor. Oh yeah, except for that time I was in college eating bread crumbs and pizza crusts out of the trash. Damn, that was the thinnest I've ever been.

[Chef Jim]

No, you're dumb. It's obviously easy. It's just that over 60% of people in this country are lazy. Come on, Chef and Ramius said so! They don't care about real scientific studies or to talk to anyone who has lived through it. They're smarter than you and I and know that it's very easy to do. Just spend 2 hours preparing dinner and eat at 9pm! Problem solved!!!

 

Two hours?? Come on man even Retatta takes only one.

[shrader]

I'm not assuming the typical is smart. There's too much evidence to the contrary. However, being stupid doesn't make food more expensive. As chef jim said, just because junk food is cheap doesn't mean reasonably healthy food is unaffordable.

 

Yeah, there is affordable food out there of almost every type, but as a whole, the cheaper stuff tends towards the unhealthy side. At that point, it's a simple numbers game, in the long term, the cheapest stuff will be purchased more often.

 

Another thing that has been ignored in this thread is that a lot of the healthy foods mentioned are stuff that doesn't have too long of a shelf life. These fruits and vegetables are going to spoil a lot quicker than that bag of chips. Yes, there are ways around this, but it definitely factors in, especially when we're talking about the money issues.

[John Adams]

Have you guys ever had kids to take care of and entertain, with no significant other, had to work long hours to pay for everything, bills to pay, collectors to dodge, making sure the kids have everything they need, making sure you have everything you need, while living with no money at or below the poverty line?

 

These are my clients every day. The limited amount of time they have to spend at home, because they work such long hours, is spent on much more important things than how healthy the food they are eating is. When you don't have money, and you're living paycheck to paycheck, especially with kids, your priorities are that you ARE EATING, not WHAT you are eating.

 

Everything is in a rush. They have every little thing to worry about. Their kids are crying, they need a bath, this one needs this, this person is calling on the phone asking for this, you owe that, the deadline for this is tomorrow, do they have clothes to wear.. it never ends. The bills and the stress these people rack up is unbelievable. Healthy eating is the least of their problems.

 

Until you've either lived the life or had extensive experience with it, don't tell me how easy it is or inexpensive it is to do something. You think these people have time to go to a library and look up fuggin recipes or spend hours in the grocery store and at home cooking healthy meals? They're lucky they have gas money for the week.

 

Bull. sh--.

 

I work with some of the poorest families in North Philly. Some have no furniture. You make excuses for them but I haven't met one yet who didn't have time to cook a meal. Not one.

 

But I've met a ton of them who have cable and watch a ton of TV.

 

I blame the individual. Sorry that I have faith in people like that.

[Nervous Guy]

Yeah, because why would we beleive scientific evidence?

look he's got a PhD and you don't. End of story. Ramius