Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 And if you're depressed, you should just think happy thoughts? No you should go to the doctor and take shiitloads of drugs.
Fezmid Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 No you should go to the doctor and take shiitloads of drugs. So you really don't think depression is a disease either...?
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 So you really don't think depression is a disease either...? Oh I would imagine with some people it is but I feel safe in assuming that with lots of people they just really need to get over it. But there you're talking something different. It's a mental disorder. I really don't think a mental disorder forces you to put food or booze in your mouth. Aaaaaaaaaaand flame away.
Fezmid Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Oh I would imagine with some people it is but I feel safe in assuming that with lots of people they just really need to get over it.But there you're talking something different. It's a mental disorder. I really don't think a mental disorder forces you to put food or booze in your mouth. Aaaaaaaaaaand flame away. Wow.... So why is depression allowed to be a disease, but obesity and alcoholism are not?
Like A Mofo Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 No, your ignoring of SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, and having a one-line cure-all for every problem in the world is you riding on a high horse. You completely ignored the China couple who gained a lot of weight in a few months of living here, eating the same things they ate in China. But it's all about chicken breasts and salads, right? Another factor living in the USA versus a place like China is: 1. Portions: We just eat too damn much, EVERYWHERE 2. Exercise: We all go around in our cars...everywhere, in other countries they walk, a LOT more. To me its pretty simple, all of you are partly right: 1. Willpower is a big part of it: I should know, Im built like Pat Williams, and I have lost over 40 lbs so far on my life changing ways of eating: How so? Saying goodbye to fried foods, drinking more water, eating more fruits and veggies, and going to the gym 4 days a week. And presto, I'm well on my way to fixing the biggest issue Ive ever had: Myself 2. Now I will say this: The overabundance of fast food chains around the USA does not help matters. And the cheaper prices entices the lazy...I WAS like that. No more. Last night I got home at 9pm...I did not eat dinner after a long day at work and went to the gym? Stroll by McDonald's? Nope, went to the grocery store, bought good, healthy stuff that I found on sale, and I had some grilled chicken with salad. Took me, oh, 45 minutes. 3. When it comes to shopping for food, it is amazing how we as a society will search like hell to save money on an airline ticket or a flat screen TV, but finding the best deals for healthy foods, we are too busy for that. In my changing of myself; I identified three difference places to shop where I can find the best deals for fish, chicken, fruits, veggies, whatever it is, and I save a lot of $ doing it. I mostly agree with Chef being that I have put myself in this situation. But Fez does have valid points too, but it is mostly about personal choices.
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Wow.... So why is depression allowed to be a disease, but obesity and alcoholism are not? Because you can't get away from your thoughts and feelings but if you don't want to overeat or over drink don't put yourself near those things. You're brain goes with you wherever you go but all you can keep yourself away from booze and food.
joey greco Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Chef-you know that if you get lazy that you'll get fat, and that if your "willpower is low' that you'll drink more than you should. From those statements it seems as though you know the negative consequences of an action, yet engage in the activity sometimes anyway. Almost as if you can't control it sometimes, so you define those times in terms of your own failings, rather than admit that you aren't in complete control of the situation. That seems like disease, and really I'm generally opposed to the idea that alcoholism is a disease. IDK, but something you can't control even though you know you should even if it's infrequent sounds like a disease rather than a lack of willpower or information.
Fezmid Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Because you can't get away from your thoughts and feelings but if you don't want to overeat or over drink don't put yourself near those things. You're brain goes with you wherever you go but all you can keep yourself away from booze and food. If you keep yourself away from food, you die... Plus, there's a link between depression and obesity. So if you think depression is a disease, and one result of depression is overeating, how can SOME obesity cases not be considered a result of a disease? I can't believe we're on page 12, and you still refuse to admit that there may be more to it than "willpower" and "laziness."
John Adams Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 To me alcoholism is a weakness not a disease. A disease that makes you move your hand to the refrigerator door. A disease that makes you pick up the bottle. A disease that makes you open the bottle. I'm with you. Addiction might be easier for some people to fall into but in the end, it's free will to choose to drink or not. It's not free will (ie it IS a disease) to have cancer. It is a disease to have a chemical imbalance in your brain that makes you feel depressed...but the actions you take while depressed, no matter how depressed you are, are yours to make.
Just Jack Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Our local, soon to be open Childrens Hospital is not helping..... The Tree House has a chapel, a solarium where children can play, an outdoor porch, performance space and a large multi-functional room that can be used as a movie theater, a classroom or a place to play floor hockey. The Tree House also has a cafe featuring Tim Horton's and Cold Stone Creamery restaurants.
Ramius Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 If you keep yourself away from food, you die... Plus, there's a link between depression and obesity. So if you think depression is a disease, and one result of depression is overeating, how can SOME obesity cases not be considered a result of a disease? I can't believe we're on page 12, and you still refuse to admit that there may be more to it than "willpower" and "laziness." Obesity is not a disease. A genetic pre-disposition, but not a disease. And yes, obesity and depression are linked, because with depression one of the first things they tell you when you are diagnosed is to get off your ass and exercise. Why? Because the working out and the endorphin release goes a long way towards helping someone snap out of depression. I'd argue that being lazy and obese and sitting on your ass eating bad food goes more towards causing depression as opposed to depression causing obesity.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2009 Author Posted August 22, 2009 1. Yes I still drink2. Can I stop for 1,2, 6 months? I did for 10 years. Now? Not sure, haven't tried 3. Do I crave drinks? Goddamn it, is it 5:00pm yet!!!!! I've told my story. I drank heavily for several years quit for 10 and about 8 years ago took it up again usually just on weekend. Sometimes I can stop after one or two and sometimes will have as many as 8 but over several hours...I don't "speed drink." What's your diagnosis? You are most likely a functional alcoholic... Yet, you probably know that. My father quit for the whole 1970's. He used to go to the VA and they simply told him "no drinking" "you can't" "won't mix with the meds" etc... So, he stopped drinking for 12 years! When he went to my mother's doctor (sick of the VA, my mother was able to get health coverage in the early 1980's), the doctor knew nothing of his past and said: "I am sure you can drink socially." BOOM! The problems started all over again... No doubt he is an alcoholic... Except he became very unfunctional, he was already on disability... He had no reason to really function job wise, he couldn't physically anyway... So on poured the drink!!! He hasn't took a drop in 16 years now... And has been back at the VA for almost that same time. Anyway... I am sure they are out there... But, has anyone noticed the trend that VERY heavy drunks are NOT obese? I see no difference in how people have problems with alcohol and how people have problems with diet control and food. Of course there are very addictive to the people that have problems controlling things. Except one doesn't get drunk on food, they get fat.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2009 Author Posted August 22, 2009 All I know is me. If I find myself being lazy I get fat. When my willpower is low I drink too much. See what I'm trying to say with all of this if I !@#$ up or cause myself problems there's a pretty good chance that 99.9999% of that was caused by me, therefore only I can change or prevent it. It bugs me when people play the blame game. Sure sometimes part of the cause is out of people's control but let's be real here. If you're fat or drink too much too often who do you think is mostly responsible? Just curious... When you were NOT drinking at all for 10 years... Were you heavier, the same, or lighter? Of course you are older now, you are probably heavier now. Was there more problems controlling your weight when you were not drinking? If you don't want to answer... Please don't... And don't take offense... I am just curious on how people react to both and heavier than social drinking. ??
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 22, 2009 Author Posted August 22, 2009 Obesity is not a disease. A genetic pre-disposition, but not a disease. And yes, obesity and depression are linked, because with depression one of the first things they tell you when you are diagnosed is to get off your ass and exercise. Why? Because the working out and the endorphin release goes a long way towards helping someone snap out of depression. I'd argue that being lazy and obese and sitting on your ass eating bad food goes more towards causing depression as opposed to depression causing obesity. You would totally agree that alcoholism and depression are linked right? With your post, one can easily replace the word obese with the word drink, drunk or alcoholism... Right? Do you believe alcoholism is a disease Ramius? IMO, anybody who needs a drink is lazy too. You don't need alcohol to sustain life. Plain and simple, pure laziness if someone has to reach for a drink for whatever the reason. Weakness and laziness. Not being able to control eating food in excess is the disease, not the obesity. Just as not being able to control drinking the alcohol in excess is the disease, not the resulting drunkeness.
Fezmid Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 You would totally agree that alcoholism and depression are linked right? With your post, one can easily replace the word obese with the word drink, drunk or alcoholism... Right? Do you believe alcoholism is a disease Ramius? IMO, anybody who needs a drink is lazy too. You don't need alcohol to sustain life. Plain and simple, pure laziness if someone has to reach for a drink for whatever the reason. Weakness and laziness. Not being able to control eating food in excess is the disease, not the obesity. Just as not being able to control drinking the alcohol in excess is the disease, not the resulting drunkeness. Well, at least I'm not the only one on this side of the fence...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 23, 2009 Author Posted August 23, 2009 Well, at least I'm not the only one on this side of the fence... The problem with eating is that everyone can see the dramatic physical results of compulsive eating... Even if it means gaining an extra 20 pounds... Of course someone can see the effect of a bender that somebody is going through... Yet, it is harder to pass judgement if one is not right there... They sober up and they are probably as skinny as a rail. I wish society would start passing the same judgement on people who drink... It is amazing what you see people buying at the supermarket drink wise... Mostly the bad alkies are not fat... They get their daily/weekly 12 pack/case/whatever, go on a bender and waste away... Probably the same people passing judgement on the fat people with food stamps. Tell you what, I would rather have a nation full of fat asses than drunks. Much better to reach for the twinkies than the spirits. Of course everything in moderation is perfectly healthy and fine.
spartacus Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Oatmeal with a little bit of brown sugar....yum. Save the boiled water and saute the kale with a little garlic and salt. Better yet, sauteed mustard greens with garlic and salt....double yum. Come on folks it's not rocket surgery. it is if you spend your life looking for handouts and laying the blame for all that is wrong on "society" liberals and personal responsibility go together like that oil and vinegar in the salad dressing.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 23, 2009 Author Posted August 23, 2009 it is if you spend your life looking for handouts and laying the blame for all that is wrong on "society" liberals and personal responsibility go together like that oil and vinegar in the salad dressing. I agree with your first sentence. Then you do the exact thing you are finding fault with. That is, laying blame on those crazy liberals. Quit while you are ahead.
Fezmid Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 it is if you spend your life looking for handouts and laying the blame for all that is wrong on "society" liberals and personal responsibility go together like that oil and vinegar in the salad dressing. Who said it's a political thing? I'm most definitely not a liberal -- yet I acknowledge that there are physiological issues that cause people to eat/drink/etc. I've never said that the individual is not partially at fault (unlike people like you who say it is 100% the individual's fault), but to say that being overweight is just a case of being "lazy" is ridiculous, just like saying someone who drinks all the time is being lazy.
John Adams Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Fat people are stupid. http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/200908...aindegeneration
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