ExiledInIllinois Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Statistically speaking, "as much as 80%" means that 80% was the highest number they have seen in whatever trial they were running. They give no indication what the mean or median was in their studies. Here in the lab, i can make numbers look real good with phrases like "as much as." For example, one of my first experiments was to seed cells onto 3-D scaffolds. I had a trial where i seeded 78% of the cells, so i could use the same bull sh-- they did and say "as much as 78% of the cells are seeded." In reality, the average seeding was about 41%. Secondly, genetics don't make you do obese. They pre-dispose you to certain conditions. Some people are never going to be skinny. But, with diet and exercise, they can keep their weight at a normal, healthy level. Some people are going to have to work harder than others due to their pre-disposition. But the fat phux blaming their obesity on genetics are simply being lazy and not taking care of themselves. Genetics don't cause you to sit on the couch and not exercise all day. There's a lady in my girlfriends office who goes about 3 bills. I'm not lying when i say she eats chicken fingers and french fries at least 3 times per week. Yet, she's fat "because she has diabetes and all these medical problems." That is the thing Ramius... What people can't accept. Some have to work harder than others, plain and simple. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Statistically speaking, "as much as 80%" means that 80% was the highest number they have seen in whatever trial they were running. They give no indication what the mean or median was in their studies. Here in the lab, i can make numbers look real good with phrases like "as much as." For example, one of my first experiments was to seed cells onto 3-D scaffolds. I had a trial where i seeded 78% of the cells, so i could use the same bull sh-- they did and say "as much as 78% of the cells are seeded." In reality, the average seeding was about 41%. Actually, since they're talking about variation, it can't be calculated on an individual basis. That kind of number is going to have to come from the upper bound of a confidence interval. Still, you're not going to see something anywhere near that high with genetic data on obesity. I'll stick with my idea that the 80% figure was randomly pulled otu of someones backside. That is the thing Ramius... What people can't accept. Some have to work harder than others, plain and simple. Good post. And this brings out part of the problem that many in here have refused to acknowledge. Certain people, for whatever reason, have more time than others. If you have two people with identical genetic profiles, working the same exact desk job, but one works 40 hours and the other 80 hours. Who is far more likely to be in better shape? Yeah, diet and physical activity is the key culprit, but there are other reasons factoring into why one would be more active and eat better than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I always feel bad for the many fat people putting in 1-2 hours/day at the gym(or working out outside) and/or watching their calories. I think you're being sarcastic, but I actually do fall into this category. In order to stay at what I consider my preferable weight (180...I'm 5'11"), I have to eat what I consider to be "perfect" and do tough workouts at least 5 days a week. For me, eating perfect is counting calories (with the workouts I do, I use a 2200 cal a day diet), with the right breakdown of Protein/Carb/Fats. Only allowing myself a "cheat" once a week. I always stick to my workouts, but it's rare that I'm motivated enough to eat "perfect", so I'm generally 10-15lbs over weight. I'm currently at about 190. If it wasn't for the fact that I enjoyed working out, I'd probably gain much more weight, and in fact during times that I got out of cycle, I've been as high as 210, which I certianly consider OBESE. As it is, I usually get fed up with my weight at about 195, get on perfect eating schedule and drop my weight back down to at least 185. Even when I'm not eating perfect, I eat better than almost everyone I know, and I certainly work out more/harder, yet I'm the one who gains weight. The fact is, DNA DOES play a part in how much fat you have. AND, there are things you can do about it. People that just say "I'm fat cause I have bad DNA, and that's that" are using it as an excuse because they don't want to work hard. Thing are supposed to be easy now-a-days, and when the magic pill doesn't work, or they work out for two weeks and haven't lost 10 lbs, they give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 I think you're being sarcastic, but I actually do fall into this category. In order to stay at what I consider my preferable weight (180...I'm 5'11"), I have to eat what I consider to be "perfect" and do tough workouts at least 5 days a week. For me, eating perfect is counting calories (with the workouts I do, I use a 2200 cal a day diet), with the right breakdown of Protein/Carb/Fats. Only allowing myself a "cheat" once a week. I always stick to my workouts, but it's rare that I'm motivated enough to eat "perfect", so I'm generally 10-15lbs over weight. I'm currently at about 190. If it wasn't for the fact that I enjoyed working out, I'd probably gain much more weight, and in fact during times that I got out of cycle, I've been as high as 210, which I certianly consider OBESE. As it is, I usually get fed up with my weight at about 195, get on perfect eating schedule and drop my weight back down to at least 185. Even when I'm not eating perfect, I eat better than almost everyone I know, and I certainly work out more/harder, yet I'm the one who gains weight. The fact is, DNA DOES play a part in how much fat you have. AND, there are things you can do about it. People that just say "I'm fat cause I have bad DNA, and that's that" are using it as an excuse because they don't want to work hard. Thing are supposed to be easy now-a-days, and when the magic pill doesn't work, or they work out for two weeks and haven't lost 10 lbs, they give up. Now mix in the personal psychological make-up of a person and there can be problems trying to stay perfect. Not everybody has the will power... Just like drinking... Some are alcoholics. Me myself? I probably haven't drank in 2 months. Even then, it was a few beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Now mix in the personal psychological make-up of a person and there can be problems trying to stay perfect. Not everybody has the will power... Just like drinking... Some are alcoholics. Me myself? I probably haven't drank in 2 months. Even then, it was a few beers. I agree, but I don't consider no will power a disease like I would alchoholism. Kind of the difference between being an alchoholic and being a drunk. Yes, for some it can be harder and they may not have the will power to work out and eat great. But in the end, that's their own fault. Either you do something about it, or you live fat. And if that's good with them, it's good with me too, but don't get pissed when you have to pay higher health care costs or buy two seats on a plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I agree, but I don't consider no will power a disease like I would alchoholism. Kind of the difference between being an alchoholic and being a drunk. Yes, for some it can be harder and they may not have the will power to work out and eat great. But in the end, that's their own fault. Either you do something about it, or you live fat. And if that's good with them, it's good with me too, but don't get pissed when you have to pay higher health care costs or buy two seats on a plane. To me alcoholism is a weakness not a disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 To me alcoholism is a weakness not a disease. The AMA disagrees. (but I already know that you don't let science get in the way of your opinions ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The AMA disagrees. (but I already know that you don't let science get in the way of your opinions ) So I cured myself of the disease? Damn I'm good. And science is full of 100% fact and 0% conjecture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 So I cured myself of the disease? Damn I'm good. And science is full of 100% fact and 0% conjecture? As I said, there's a difference between Alchoholism and drunks. Just because you drank a lot doesn't mean you were an achoholic. But really, it doesn't have much to do with the point I was going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 To me alcoholism is a weakness not a disease. Do you still drink? That is probably why you consider it a weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 As I said, there's a difference between Alchoholism and drunks. Just because you drank a lot doesn't mean you were an achoholic. What's the difference? From the AMA: It is characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial. Each of these symptoms may be continuous or periodic That was me. I cured myself of this "disease" then I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Do you still drink? That is probably why you consider it a weakness. Yes, you know I sill drink. The weakness comes from not being able to control the amount and regularity of consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 What's the difference? From the AMA: That was me. I cured myself of this "disease" then I guess. Do you still drink? If you do? Can you stop for 1 month, 2 months or 6 months... Then drink a little and then maybe stop drinking again this time for a year or two? Do you crave drinks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 What's the difference? From the AMA: That was me. I cured myself of this "disease" then I guess. It's not worth arguing about. I have a lot of experience with it, and have my opinion. You apparently have the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Yes, you know I sill drink. The weakness comes from not being able to control the amount and regularity of consumption. I guess this answered my above post. Good luck Chef if you think that you are actually cured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 It's not worth arguing about. I have a lot of experience with it, and have my opinion. You apparently have the same. Exactly Faustus... I have been down that road too! I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 So I cured myself of the disease? Damn I'm good. And science is full of 100% fact and 0% conjecture? You seem to be 100% conjecture and 0% fact. Chef says: "Fat = lazy, drinking = willpower. It works for me, so it's 100% true. End of discussion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Do you still drink? If you do? Can you stop for 1 month, 2 months or 6 months... Then drink a little and then maybe stop drinking again this time for a year or two? Do you crave drinks? 1. Yes I still drink 2. Can I stop for 1,2, 6 months? I did for 10 years. Now? Not sure, haven't tried 3. Do I crave drinks? Goddamn it, is it 5:00pm yet!!!!! I've told my story. I drank heavily for several years quit for 10 and about 8 years ago took it up again usually just on weekend. Sometimes I can stop after one or two and sometimes will have as many as 8 but over several hours...I don't "speed drink." What's your diagnosis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 You seem to be 100% conjecture and 0% fact. Chef says: "Fat = lazy, drinking = willpower. It works for me, so it's 100% true. End of discussion." All I know is me. If I find myself being lazy I get fat. When my willpower is low I drink too much. See what I'm trying to say with all of this if I !@#$ up or cause myself problems there's a pretty good chance that 99.9999% of that was caused by me, therefore only I can change or prevent it. It bugs me when people play the blame game. Sure sometimes part of the cause is out of people's control but let's be real here. If you're fat or drink too much too often who do you think is mostly responsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 All I know is me. If I find myself being lazy I get fat. When my willpower is low I drink too much. See what I'm trying to say with all of this if I !@#$ up or cause myself problems there's a pretty good chance that 99.9999% of that was caused by me, therefore only I can change or prevent it. It bugs me when people play the blame game. Sure sometimes part of the cause is out of people's control but let's be real here. If you're fat or drink too much too often who do you think is mostly responsible? And if you're depressed, you should just think happy thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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