The Dean Posted August 16, 2009 Posted August 16, 2009 For what it is worth, one of my favorite insiders (who has yet to really steer me wrong) has this to say about the Maybin signing: it "should be really soon". So, basically, nothing we don't already know/suspect.
DazedandConfused Posted August 16, 2009 Posted August 16, 2009 Beautiful. And if they had caved and paid Peters $11mill/year, they'd be at every agent's mercy that wanted more mercy as well. So is there any way the Bills' FO could have "won" given Peters' demands? Maybe if they just refused to pay, but also refused to trade, and just let him sit on the bench taking up a roster spot for 2 years? Regardless, its beyond time to get Maybin into camp. He's lost considerable valuable time and few rookies make an impact after missing the majority of training camp. If the Bills had getting the best team they could for Buffalo fans as a primary concern of their's along with (or anything more than a healthy by-product of) making the maximum amount of bucks for the corporation and satisfying Ralph's rich guy desires then I think they would have: 1. Just as the made an outstanding assessment of Peters's undrafted talents and made the winning bid to get him as a UDFA, just as they again assessed Peters's skills properly when they got him onto the team on the PS but read the market correctly to see they had to sign him to the active roster or risk losing him, again just as they assessed Peters properly given the vocal endorsement of Mouse McNally, they signed him long term at more $ than Peters had ever seen to be their starting RT. This achievement alone was quite phenomenal and demonstrated hard work and great talent on Peters part to actually go from being a UDFA TE to be a starting RT in the virtual blink of an eye in football time. Great credit goes to JMac for recognizing Peters extraordinary skills and advocating and training this high achieving hard working player into this great achievement. Where the Bills seemed to go off track and there appears to have been a change in the approach of paying Peters for real world achievement was at the point where he made the jump to starting LT. This happened roughly around the time JMac retired so maybe he was not around to work to keep both Peters and the FO plugged into reality. Who knows for sure, I do not. However, there seems to be a point where when Peters made the real world achievement of winning the popularity contest voted on by league coaches, his player peers and fans (like any business the customer is always right if you want to be a successful business) the two parties were on different pages. Peters wanted to be paid LT money rather than RT money during the life of a contract that had several years to go. The Bills on the other hand had Peters under contract and said flat out that they were not going to renegotiate his deal. There is some logic to requiring Peters to prove himself with another year (or two) of very good play before the Bills forked over an extension and raise they were under no contractual obligation to do. However, there is also the reality that the Bills had to some extent made a player worth judgment (one that has since proved pretty wrong in most outside judgments) to re-sign Kelsay when his contract came up to a huge deal. This pissed off Schoebel to some degree as here was making the Pro Bowl and Kelsay got a chunk (he did not deserve IMHO) to play on the same DL. Schoebel refused to come to voluntary workouts, generally made hissy fit rumbles and the FO caved and extended him when they were under no contractual obligation to do so (ironically his sack total dropped and he got hurt but such is life in the NFL). Peters also having made the Pro Bowl and playing on the same OL as men like Dockery and even Langston Walker whom timing had given them bigger checks than Peters wanted to get LT money now. The Bills were under no obligation contractually to do so but in the case of timing having delivered an inconsistent with performance contract to Kelsay caved in to Schoebel's discomfort and extended him when they had no contractual obligation to do so. Its simply a guess on my part, but what seems like would have been consistent and smart management by the FO would have been to extend Peters deal to something like or approximating LT money when he had in fact qualified for the Pro Bowl as an LT. Would this have been a risk for the Bills? Sure. They might have gotten burned much like they did when they took the same risk with Schobel. However, it seems to me that if they had extended Peters for even the going rate for a top notch LT at the time when he was deemed the AFC LT starter the easily could have had him for $8 million a year (and actually as $6.5 or $7 million would have made Peters turdeating happy as this would have paid him more than Dockery or Walker and been a substantial raise over the around $5 million the starting RT level contract he was playing under. The Bills took a firm line they were certainly contractually entitled to take (though in terms of reality this was a departure from how they treated Schobel in a similar situation. Perhaps having caved to Schoebel the Bills decided they would not extend Peters when he was under contract. Yet, Peters had learned the lesson of watching an FO that had caved and bollicksed the Kelsay/Schobel deal. We actually can be thankful that Peters/Parker just made their demand and shut up, because the handwriting was on the wall that the Bills would likely cave once Peters won the popularity contest again and made the Pro Bowl (undeserved IMHO but obviously I am not in charge). Overall, I think the FO really handled this case brutally bad. Even worse they set the precedent for the next Bill with little leverage to stand up to the FO and as in the Peters case they engineered things so he got a $10 million annual cap hit deal (I am not sure where you got the $11 million figure but back in real life Peter's signed for 10 and it is not hard to see how his deal price kept going up and up as he gained honors from others and also any Bills strategy that may have involved Dockery leaning on Peters did not work. Maybe you sign Peters for $7 miillion 2 years ago and he comes back and asks for $11 when he makes the Pro Bowl again. Maybe he gets hurt like Schoebel did after we caved in to him. Could be, but life has its risks. IMHO the Bills were penny wise and pound foolish in the manner they did this negotiation and unfortunately the fans may pay the price. I hope not. I hope the seemingly reluctant Walker makes us fuuggabout Peters and the rookies Wood (I think he will be fine) and LeVitre (I wonder how this will work out this year) prove miraculously good enough to make this work. I doubt it but we will see.
ieatcrayonz Posted August 16, 2009 Posted August 16, 2009 yeah, what you said....i have a feeling he is close though. I had hoped it was close for the last couple of weeks but evidently Maybin has been hanging around JAIrus Byrd. He doesn't want to practice. He's not going to go to practice. He's not talking about a game. He's talking about practice. These two guys are an absolute joke. They haven't even played one NFL snap and they are trying to dictate all the rules. The Bills should lower Maybin's offer by $100k a day every day starting tomorrow AM. And they should get their own doctors to check on JAIrus' injury.
Paup 1995MVP Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 If the Bills had getting the best team they could for Buffalo fans as a primary concern of their's along with (or anything more than a healthy by-product of) making the maximum amount of bucks for the corporation and satisfying Ralph's rich guy desires then I think they would have: 1. Just as the made an outstanding assessment of Peters's undrafted talents and made the winning bid to get him as a UDFA, just as they again assessed Peters's skills properly when they got him onto the team on the PS but read the market correctly to see they had to sign him to the active roster or risk losing him, again just as they assessed Peters properly given the vocal endorsement of Mouse McNally, they signed him long term at more $ than Peters had ever seen to be their starting RT. This achievement alone was quite phenomenal and demonstrated hard work and great talent on Peters part to actually go from being a UDFA TE to be a starting RT in the virtual blink of an eye in football time. Great credit goes to JMac for recognizing Peters extraordinary skills and advocating and training this high achieving hard working player into this great achievement. Where the Bills seemed to go off track and there appears to have been a change in the approach of paying Peters for real world achievement was at the point where he made the jump to starting LT. This happened roughly around the time JMac retired so maybe he was not around to work to keep both Peters and the FO plugged into reality. Who knows for sure, I do not. However, there seems to be a point where when Peters made the real world achievement of winning the popularity contest voted on by league coaches, his player peers and fans (like any business the customer is always right if you want to be a successful business) the two parties were on different pages. Peters wanted to be paid LT money rather than RT money during the life of a contract that had several years to go. The Bills on the other hand had Peters under contract and said flat out that they were not going to renegotiate his deal. There is some logic to requiring Peters to prove himself with another year (or two) of very good play before the Bills forked over an extension and raise they were under no contractual obligation to do. However, there is also the reality that the Bills had to some extent made a player worth judgment (one that has since proved pretty wrong in most outside judgments) to re-sign Kelsay when his contract came up to a huge deal. This pissed off Schoebel to some degree as here was making the Pro Bowl and Kelsay got a chunk (he did not deserve IMHO) to play on the same DL. Schoebel refused to come to voluntary workouts, generally made hissy fit rumbles and the FO caved and extended him when they were under no contractual obligation to do so (ironically his sack total dropped and he got hurt but such is life in the NFL). Peters also having made the Pro Bowl and playing on the same OL as men like Dockery and even Langston Walker whom timing had given them bigger checks than Peters wanted to get LT money now. The Bills were under no obligation contractually to do so but in the case of timing having delivered an inconsistent with performance contract to Kelsay caved in to Schoebel's discomfort and extended him when they had no contractual obligation to do so. Its simply a guess on my part, but what seems like would have been consistent and smart management by the FO would have been to extend Peters deal to something like or approximating LT money when he had in fact qualified for the Pro Bowl as an LT. Would this have been a risk for the Bills? Sure. They might have gotten burned much like they did when they took the same risk with Schobel. However, it seems to me that if they had extended Peters for even the going rate for a top notch LT at the time when he was deemed the AFC LT starter the easily could have had him for $8 million a year (and actually as $6.5 or $7 million would have made Peters turdeating happy as this would have paid him more than Dockery or Walker and been a substantial raise over the around $5 million the starting RT level contract he was playing under. The Bills took a firm line they were certainly contractually entitled to take (though in terms of reality this was a departure from how they treated Schobel in a similar situation. Perhaps having caved to Schoebel the Bills decided they would not extend Peters when he was under contract. Yet, Peters had learned the lesson of watching an FO that had caved and bollicksed the Kelsay/Schobel deal. We actually can be thankful that Peters/Parker just made their demand and shut up, because the handwriting was on the wall that the Bills would likely cave once Peters won the popularity contest again and made the Pro Bowl (undeserved IMHO but obviously I am not in charge). Overall, I think the FO really handled this case brutally bad. Even worse they set the precedent for the next Bill with little leverage to stand up to the FO and as in the Peters case they engineered things so he got a $10 million annual cap hit deal (I am not sure where you got the $11 million figure but back in real life Peter's signed for 10 and it is not hard to see how his deal price kept going up and up as he gained honors from others and also any Bills strategy that may have involved Dockery leaning on Peters did not work. Maybe you sign Peters for $7 miillion 2 years ago and he comes back and asks for $11 when he makes the Pro Bowl again. Maybe he gets hurt like Schoebel did after we caved in to him. Could be, but life has its risks. IMHO the Bills were penny wise and pound foolish in the manner they did this negotiation and unfortunately the fans may pay the price. I hope not. I hope the seemingly reluctant Walker makes us fuuggabout Peters and the rookies Wood (I think he will be fine) and LeVitre (I wonder how this will work out this year) prove miraculously good enough to make this work. I doubt it but we will see. Your analysis of the Peters situation misses one major premise. Peters was ridiculously overrated in his ability and his desire to be great. He just has a great desire to be overpaid. And he has succeeded in that. He had absolutely no upside from his 2007 season which was very good, but not spectacular. Last year he was mediocre AT BEST. There was no way the Bills were going to pay Jason Peters huge money unless he came to all the offseason camps, busted his butt and played like an All Pro this season. If he had a huge year in 2009, you can be sure they would have extended him bigtime after this season. But I am sure they had a feeling that Peters was not that type of player who burned to be the best. And they made a smart decision to trade him for the best deal possible. I think they handled this perfectly. Do you really think that the Pats or the Steelers would have given Peters a huge extension with three years left on his contract if he had missed all of the 2008 offseason and shown up right before the start of the season? He would never have played another down for a Belichik or Tomlin coached team. It is soooo easy to get down on the Bills because there record on the field has been miserable this past decade. But Peters is a fat, lazy head case. The Eagles are already finding that out.
JOHNNYFAIRPLAY Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 It is soooo easy to get down on the Bills because there record on the field has been miserable this past decade. But Peters is a fat, lazy head case. The Eagles are already finding that out. and how are the Eagles finding this? I've heard nothing about it.
The Dean Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 It is soooo easy to get down on the Bills because there record on the field has been miserable this past decade. But Peters is a fat, lazy head case. The Eagles are already finding that out. and how are the Eagles finding this? I've heard nothing about it. You didn't hear? He had a poor outing in his limited appearance in the team's FIRST preseason game. That says it all.
wonderbread Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 You didn't hear? He had a poor outing in his limited appearance in the team's FIRST preseason game. That says it all. But, But, But, I hate him...
LABills08 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 I can't believe the Bills haven't gotten Maybin into camp yet.
BillsGuyInMalta Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Doesn't look like he's signing any time soon.
thebandit27 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 anyone have a link or quote or any kind of source that tells us if the team has even offered the kid a contract? he can't very well sign one if they don't make an offer...
KRT88 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 This kind of crap is why you trade down in the draft. What use is he really going to be after he misses half of training camp. And all this because his whimp of an agent likes to wait until the guy ahead of him signs. We lose out because Michael Egotree wants to be the highest paid WR in the draft even though he got picked 2nd. NFL, get a rookie slotting system like the NBA and end this madness
billsfan89 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Fair enough but he is the 11th pick. That also goes to speak of the importance of producing a winner. l am not trying to a jerk it is just frustrating looking at what winning organizations do year in and year out. Mark Sanchez was the what 5 pick and was signed before camp. look at the three people left to be signed and what organizations that picked them. SF CINN BUF the collective records of those org over the last decade speak for themselves. At least they had some winning seasons and playoff games.I fully understand that maybin maybe the one holding up the negotiations. Just fustrating Frustrating is the right word. We need this guy in camp because he is such a developmental player. But his agent or some other force in these contract talks is holding this up. I am not one who thinks the Bills should just open up the bank and give him what he wants. You would think the Peters situation would show agents that the Bills are willing to play hardball and do have some sort of fiscal structure (They aren't going to be like the Redskins and throw blank checks around for mediocre talent). It just makes me feel like the Bills just have bad luck when it comes to player demands recently or don't have the best negotiators in the front office either way its frustrating.
Delete This Account Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Do you have any info that backs that up? Or just your opinion. Because all the media reports say the opposite. But then again, the media reports have all been wrong. I hate to say it, but I agree. There seems to be absolute zero urgency to get this guy signed. I'm really amazed. with all due respect, not ALL the media have reported the opposite. jw FULL EDIT to clarify.
ACor58 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Frustrating is the right word. We need this guy in camp because he is such a developmental player. But his agent or some other force in these contract talks is holding this up. Obviously the Bills do not feel the same way. If they did he would be here right now. All parties involve have something at stake: The Bills obviously don't want to pay too much - but would also like to see Maybin contribute this season. Maybin's agent needs to get max value for his client or he loses credibility with other potential clients. Maybin needs to get the most he possibly can. Let's not forget this could be his only chance at signing a huge contract. Anyone who feels that he should just "shut up and sign" are unrealistic. I know, it's just a few million extra dollars, right?. How many of you would leave a few extra million dollars lying around on the table?
BillsGuyInMalta Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 with all due respect, not ALL the media have reported the opposite. jw FULL EDIT to clarify. I got a sinking feeling that this isn't going to end before the regular season starts.
Whites Bay Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 If the Bills had getting the best team they could for Buffalo fans as a primary concern..... ....I doubt it but we will see. You are, indeed, the next "Pyrite Gal".
The Dean Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 You are, indeed, the next "Pyrite Gal". Not "the next".
HurlyBurly51 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 What use is he really going to be after he misses half of training camp. fyi...camp breaks on Wednesday. This guy will be useless his first year in the NFL - I hope his contract offer reflects that.
The Dean Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 fyi...camp breaks on Wednesday. This guy will be useless his first year in the NFL - I hope his contract offer reflects that. Do you think they stop practicing because they leave St John Fisher? His contract will be exactly what it should be given the draft position.
Recommended Posts