SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 He surpassed Vick by a mile. In Ryan's first year, he threw for more yards than Vick ever did in a season, had a completion percentage Vick can only dream of, had a QB rating in excess of any Vick attained. Ryan helped the Falcons make the playoffs in his rookie year. Vick didn't do that, either. The Falcons can now operate in a steady manner, using all their tools. No coach in his right mind would ever trade what the Falcons have now for what they had with Vick. I can't disagree with you at all. But it incenses me for people to sit here and pretend Vick was not a good and effective player because they personally don't like him, so I have to point out that he actually was successful, and as it stands, has more pluses to list on his resume than does Matt Ryan, although I suspect Ryan will far exceed that eventually. Probably not going to happen this year, however. I expect some fall off from last year. If not, Ryan will be up there with any quarterback in the league IMO considering how well he has handled the learning curve of the pro game.
Acantha Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 No, the fact that they lead the league in rushing in multiple seasons defines dominating. Atlanta was second in rushing last season. How?
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 No, he threw Lassie to a pit bull to teach the pit bull to fight. Then stood there and laughed when the pit bull killed Lassie. The "family dog" you are referring to here would have torn Lassie's throat out.
Turn Down For Watkins Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I guess there was a Vick sighting in Chicago per PFT. Link Scratch that, I guess Vick was in Chicago to engage in some type of charity work. Link
Booster4324 Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 The "family dog" you are referring to here would have torn Lassie's throat out. Ok that was over the top, but I was trying to make a point. Maybe you are missing the point: He took other breeds of dogs, say a collie, and threw it into a match with the pit bull until the pit killed or injured it. These dogs were owned by other people. These dogs are the family dogs I am talking about.
The Dean Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Scratch that, I guess Vick was in Chicago to engage in some type of charity work. Link "...Joe Buck's favorite web site..." http://www.tmz.com/tag/joe+buck/
buffaloaggie Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 We will see what the Falcon's record is at the end of the season. We will see how often Matt Ryan finds Roddy White now that he's got big Tony to look for. Keep in mind, as of yet, Matt Ryan, for all his attention, has yet to surpass anything Vick did for the Falcons. Vick has won a playoff game, and made the Pro Bowl twice, neither of which Ryan can yet claim (I am almost certain that will change before his career ends though) And once again, I stated that Vick was a factor in the tremendous success of the RUNNING GAME, which yes, was actually opened up because of Vick's ability to scramble and the conundrum that places on a defense. My point is it would be so nice to have that conundrum to rely upon should TE get injured. It would be much nicer than say...the conundrum Ryan Fitzpatrick will place on the Bills should he ever need to enter the game. I think what you're banking on is that we'd be getting the Mike Vick that took the Falcons to the playoffs. He is two years removed from the NFL and has gone though hell. I am not disputing Vick's effect on a running game, and I'm sure any team that looks at Vick will be looking at him to run a wildcat type formation. I wouldn't doubt that if Vick could regain his sense of the field, he could easily open up defenses much more than a Ronnie brown or Darren McFadden. He is NOT a decent passer though, because of the reasons I stated in my earlier post. I think Ryan and Roddy White's rapport is pretty solid, so Gonzalez will be more than likely an option. I'm sure he'll be an asset in helping White by drawing attention away from him. You don't invest $50M over 6 years in a guy that you don't think will be your main go to receiver. As far as comparing Vick's winning to Ryan's, c'mon. One season. Ryan was 11-5, so he already surpassed Vick's first season as a starter. He was also rookie of the year, which Vick didn't do. Do us both a favor and don't go to the winning comparison until we're a few years down the road.
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Ok that was over the top, but I was trying to make a point. Maybe you are missing the point: He took other breeds of dogs, say a collie, and threw it into a match with the pit bull until the pit killed or injured it. These dogs were owned by other people. These dogs are the family dogs I am talking about. In any link that you showed me, I did not see any mention of any other breed of dog than a pit bull. Every search I've performed since you brought to my attention this issue of Vick fighting family dogs, has yielded only pit bulls. No mention of any other breed, anywhere. In fact, this is the only mention I saw of the breed of these so called family dogs: "Vick - who was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison last Dec.10 for his role in bankrolling a dogfighting operation called "Bad Newz Kennels" on his Surry County (Va.) property and for killing some of the underperforming dogs - placed family pet dogs in the fighting ring as trained pit bulls and "caused major injuries" to the pets, according to a 17-page Department of Agriculture report released Friday." (cite:http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2008/11/22/2008-11-22_report_michael_vick_threw_untrained_fami.html) That little excerpt leads me to believe that the family dogs were "untrained pit bulls". I saw no mention of any other breed anywhere in either article that you linked, or anywhere else on TV or the net for that matter. Not to mention - other than Rotweilers, I've never heard of anyone fighting any breed of dog beside a pit bull. It makes sense that if you want to gamble on dog fighting, you acquire the most vicious dogs possible. Nobody would place bets on Lassie, therefore there would be no incentive to make Lassie fight.
Booster4324 Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 In any link that you showed me, I did not see any mention of any other breed of dog than a pit bull. Every search I've performed since you brought to my attention this issue of Vick fighting family dogs, has yielded only pit bulls. No mention of any other breed, anywhere. In fact, this is the only mention I saw of the breed of these so called family dogs: "Vick - who was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison last Dec.10 for his role in bankrolling a dogfighting operation called "Bad Newz Kennels" on his Surry County (Va.) property and for killing some of the underperforming dogs - placed family pet dogs in the fighting ring as trained pit bulls and "caused major injuries" to the pets, according to a 17-page Department of Agriculture report released Friday." (cite:http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2008/11/22/2008-11-22_report_michael_vick_threw_untrained_fami.html) That little excerpt leads me to believe that the family dogs were "untrained pit bulls". I saw no mention of any other breed anywhere in either article that you linked, or anywhere else on TV or the net for that matter. Not to mention - other than Rotweilers, I've never heard of anyone fighting any breed of dog beside a pit bull. It makes sense that if you want to gamble on dog fighting, you acquire the most vicious dogs possible. Nobody would place bets on Lassie, therefore there would be no incentive to make Lassie fight. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2884063 On April 25, authorities raided a house in Surry County, Va., owned by Vick and reportedly found -- among other things -- 66 dogs (most of which were pit bulls), a dog-fighting pit, bloodstained carpets and equipment commonly associated with dogfighting. Vick was not at the scene and denied knowledge of dogfighting at the property. To this point, no charges have been filed against him. But questions about Vick and his possible connection to dogfighting linger. Well, not even all the dogs from the raid were pit bulls.
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Vick the athlete I would love any day. However Vick the person and his whole involvement in dog fighting turns my stomach. If he was arrested on weapons charges, drugs and possibly other felonies I might be able to forgive, but this sh-- is an addiction and shows him to be a crappy human being.
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Aye aye aye. Dog breeders steal dogs to use in training. They are not the dogs they use to fight, and wager on. They are the dogs they use to train the fighting dogs. Around here, dog fighters typically hunt hogs to train their dogs, and I'll put a hog hunter up against a Lassie slayer any day of the weak =p. Maybe it is just southern dog fighting etiquette, but even what few people I know that are into that sort of thing would find it appalling to fight them against dogs off the street. Obviously none of us knows really what Vick was into, but I've always had the sense that the media of course was blowing it way out of proportion. The reason: so that we will sit around and debate it on forums like this, rather than just let it die like it should. So I think he was involved in a typical dog fighting ring (which as surprising as it is to some of you, is actually quite commonplace), and I am simply stating that based on what evidence there is, his operation doesn't seem to be any worse than any other dog fighting operation. Is it deplorable behavior? Well, in my opinion, not really. I understand why some people have such an issue with it, and I don't and wouldn't engage in it myself - but to sit here and say we can deal with the weapons charges and domestic violence cases of other athletes but cannot tolerate MV, seems hypocritical. I also would venture to say that those who feel that way (and I'm not including you in that category Dean, just got onto this schpeel while responding to your post, sorry) need to evaluate their priorities. Crimes against human beings, in my estimation, are far far worse than crimes against dogs. I'm not sure whether I feel that way because I place too little value on the life of animals or because I place too much value on the life of other humans - I'll let my detractors decide that. Well, not even all the dogs from the raid were pit bulls. @Booster So they found other species on the premises but that does not suffice as evidence that those other dogs were being thrown into the ring. Maybe I'm stretching a little to make my point here, but you are stretching a lot to perpetuate your accusation that Vick through Lassie into the ring. It is a simple logical fallacy really. You just cannot say "Vick fought family dogs, and there were dogs on the premises that were not pit bulls, therefore Vick fought dogs that were not pit bulls," any more than I can say "Vick only fought pit bulls, and since there were other breeds of dog on the premises besides pit bulls, Vick obviously must not have fought those dogs." All we can say is that the only documentation of actual fighting occurred between pit bulls - and if you Google search "Michael Vick's Dogs" you will see page after page of him in what appears to be affectionate poses with his pits, which I presume is what the "Family Dogs" were - amongst pictures of battered and bloody dogs too, which also were all pits. There are NO pictures of any other breed anywhere on Google, so you can read into that however you like since you apparently are doing that anyway. You have to keep in mind that all journalism is subjective and I am very suspicious of how they worded these articles and that they may be trying to make it seem more heinous than it actually was. I find it hard to believe that anybody would throw a lab into a cage with a pit bull - there simply is not any compelling reason to do so, no matter what angle you see it from. If you are trying to argue that MV is just a degenerate sociopath with no value for life, then maybe throwing lesser breeds into a cage with pits might make a little more sense. But to my eye (which I try to keep as objective as possible), he was in it to make money and have fun, neither of which could be satisfied for a typical person by watching one dog viciously slaughter another. The whole point of dog fighting is the same as boxing or football - you want to see a competitive contest - and stacking the deck really makes no sense unless you have money wagered on the match. In this particular case, I'd like to know who would wager money on Lassie in this situation, enough of it that would make it profitable to actually have Lassie in the ring. Or are you all just content to read about it on espn.com and formulate your opinion that MV actually is a degenerate sociopath, without any substantiated evidence to suggest as much?
billybob Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 somewhere in this world dog fighting, rooster fighting, Bull fighting, hunting wolves from helicopters, using blow touches on pigs for medical experiments, indiscriminate killing of civilians in occupied countries , torture, slavery, forced labor, sex slavery, testing chemical and biological agents on your own citizens, war crimes of every kind, violations of every human right, genocide and Jerry Springer have been or are being committed, much of it right in or by this country- if Vick has truly repented he's ahead of a lot of people.
billfan63 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 somewhere in this world dog fighting, rooster fighting, Bull fighting, hunting wolves from helicopters, using blow touches on pigs for medical experiments, indiscriminate killing of civilians in occupied countries , torture, slavery, forced labor, sex slavery, testing chemical and biological agents on your own citizens, war crimes of every kind, violations of every human right, genocide and Jerry Springer have been or are being committed, much of it right in or by this country- if Vick has truly repented he's ahead of a lot of people. The last torturers of note Saddam lads, Uday amd Qusay, were blown to hell, I think they could have been saved by Tony Dungy
The Dean Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 somewhere in this world dog fighting, rooster fighting, Bull fighting, hunting wolves from helicopters, using blow touches on pigs for medical experiments, indiscriminate killing of civilians in occupied countries , torture, slavery, forced labor, sex slavery, testing chemical and biological agents on your own citizens, war crimes of every kind, violations of every human right, genocide and Jerry Springer have been or are being committed, much of it right in or by this country- if Vick has truly repented he's ahead of a lot of people. Yes, there are quite a few sick fuc#ers in this world. That is just too true.
Booster4324 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 somewhere in this world dog fighting, rooster fighting, Bull fighting, hunting wolves from helicopters, using blow touches on pigs for medical experiments, indiscriminate killing of civilians in occupied countries , torture, slavery, forced labor, sex slavery, testing chemical and biological agents on your own citizens, war crimes of every kind, violations of every human right, genocide and Jerry Springer have been or are being committed, much of it right in or by this country- if Vick has truly repented he's ahead of a lot of people. I don't want those guys on my team either.
The Dean Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I don't want those guys on my team either. Isn't it amazing how low some people's standards are?
Booster4324 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Isn't it amazing how low some people's standards are? Well, you do realize that that in a population of billions, there are millions that are worse. That is some sort of distinction.
gmac17 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread already, but I always find the vick argument interesting in that one of this franchises favorite sons has been rumored to have some domestic abuse issues in his past. (besides OJ...) . Nothing official, but some regular and consistent stories from back in the day. I don't know the last time I've heard anyone mention anything about that guy being such a horrible person. btw, i think vick is scum.
Booster4324 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread already, but I always find the vick argument interesting in that one of this franchises favorite sons has been rumored to have some domestic abuse issues in his past. (besides OJ...) . Nothing official, but some regular and consistent stories from back in the day. I don't know the last time I've heard anyone mention anything about that guy being such a horrible person. btw, i think vick is scum. If I know it genuinely happened, they are scum in my eyes. There can be some extenuating circumstances (she had a knife), but otherwise, complete and utter scum. I know some Bills have been accused (and guilty) of it, could you be more specific?
Bad Lieutenant Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 FWIW Not that I believe it but I just heard a third-hand rumor that Vick flew into Buffalo tonite. Just saying.
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