DNC now calling angry average Americans a mob

[Chef Jim]

Totally agree but that doesn't give people the right to intentionally distort that legalese into saying it does the opposite of what it is saying.

 

Of course not but it also opens up the bill to interpretation. You know as well as I do there are law firms out there whose sole reason for being is to go through shiit like this with a fine toothed comb to benefit whomever their client is....even if the client is the government. A plan that probably could use several years of crafting, re-working and debating has been crammed down our throats. That just reeks of "quickly before they realize what's in here."

[Kelly the Dog]

Of course not but it also opens up the bill to interpretation. You know as well as I do there are law firms out there whose sole reason for being is to go through shiit like this with a fine toothed comb to benefit whomever their client is....even if the client is the government. A plan that probably could use several years of crafting, re-working and debating has been crammed down our throats. That just reeks of "quickly before they realize what's in here."

 

Most of these lawmakers have been working on health care reform and legislation for a decade or two. There has been plenty of time for it and plenty of arguing back and worth and crafting legislation. The problem is real, it's a tough issue, you're never going to get something we all agree on or even comes close to it.

[Magox]

So this is the way things should be? That's a very good element of the health reform which not only helps gramma but helps their kids/family -- AND saves them money -- AND saves overall health care money -- and yet opponents are saying it kills gramma and a lot of elderly are terrified when they hear this, whether they were for reform or not.

I do not know enough of that part of the bill to give an informed opinion, and either do the politicians, as evidenced today (specter). What I do know is that there is a lot of debate from both sides and from experts that say this bill may not add coverage to significantly more people than what there is right now. I also do know that there is a lot of debate that this will add over a trillion dollars to the deficit. There is also a lot of debate that health care coverage for many people may deteriorate because of this legislation.

 

What I'm saying is that there is a lot of compelling arguments that suggest that this Health care legislation just won't cut it, and that it is just a much larger extension of the Medicare program.

 

The argument from the other side in regards to not adding to the deficit is mainly because they will be able to tax other sources of revenue to compensate for the extra costs, either way it costs a lot of money. Taxing 5% off the top from the upper income earners I believe will have a windfall effect, which unfortunately many people don't see that possible "unintended consequence".

 

I don't believe that anyone who is not partial to either side is convinced that this plan is not going to add on to the deficit, provide more coverage to a significant amount of people, or provide better coverage than what they are receiving today. Until there is a general consensus on those points, I don't see how anyone could not be nervous about having this piece of legislation go through.

[Kelly the Dog]

I do not know enough of that part of the bill to give an informed opinion, and either do the politicians, as evidenced today (specter). What I do know is that there is a lot of debate from both sides and from experts that say this bill may not add coverage to significantly more people than what there is right now. I also do know that there is a lot of debate that this will add over a trillion dollars to the deficit. There is also a lot of debate that health care coverage for many people may deteriorate because of this legislation.

 

What I'm saying is that there is a lot of compelling arguments that suggest that this Health care legislation just won't cut it, and that it is just a much larger extension of the Medicare program.

 

The argument from the other side in regards to not adding to the deficit is mainly because they will be able to tax other sources of revenue to compensate for the extra costs, either way it costs a lot of money. Taxing 5% off the top from the upper income earners I believe will have a windfall effect, which unfortunately many people don't see that possible "unintended consequence".

 

I don't believe that anyone who is not partial to either side is convinced that this plan is not going to add on to the deficit, provide more coverage to a significant amount of people, or provide better coverage than what they are receiving today. Until there is a general consensus on those points, I don't see how anyone could not be nervous about having this piece of legislation go through.

1] You should know everything you need to know about that portion of the bill because the guy that started it, a Republican, just explained every bit of it in the post you responded to so I assume you read. It's a small provision. ALL voluntary.

 

2] The reports of the bills not covering enough people were early drafts and virtually all of the reports and versions being discussed or already passed say about the same thing, between 95-97% will be covered depending on which parts of which plans are finally passed. There are approximately 46 mil now and approximately 38 mil of those will be covered. The Senate bills are closer to 97%.

 

3] No legislation on health care would raise the deficit FAR more than passing any of the proposals. That's pretty much inarguable. Rates are raising at a ridiculous rate, have been for years, and are about to explode as more baby boomers retire. That is the major reason for our deficit trouble with or without reform. About two thirds of the trillion will come from cuts in Medicare pricing NOT benefits. I think pretty much everyone agrees with that. There is about 300-400 bill which will have to come from taxes or other ways but that is something like 30-40 bill a year, and we spend 2.5 trillion a year on health care.

 

4] There are going to be dozens and dozens of private plans that the citizens can buy within all ranges of care. Plus you can buy extra stuff in packages if the plan you have or is provided for you doesn't cover everything you want.

[Bad Lieutenant]

Those charming Teabaggers!

 

http://news.aol.com/article/congressman-da...astika%2F612834

 

WASHINGTON (Aug. 11) -- A swastika was found Tuesday painted on a sign outside Rep. David Scott's district office, an act the Georgia Democrat said reflects an increasingly hateful and racist debate over health care and should serve as a reminder for people to tone down their rhetoric.

Scott's staff arrived at his Smyrna, Ga., office Tuesday morning to find the Nazi graffiti emblazoned on a sign bearing the lawmaker's name. The vandalism occurred roughly a week after Scott was involved in a contentious argument over health care at a community meeting.

 

Scott, who is black, said he also has received mail in recent days that used N-word references to him, and that characterized President Barack Obama as a Marxist.

[blzrul]

Those charming Teabaggers!

 

http://news.aol.com/article/congressman-da...astika%2F612834

HEY! These are EVERDAY AMERICANS, remember! Gee. Boy howdy.

 

Gotta love those wingnuts. They love Hitler.

[Kelly the Dog]

The girl that was shown all over TV yesterday and today from the Specter Town Hall who said she didn't want the country to be turned into Russia was asked on FOX if she was happy with the answer Specter gave to her after her question. She said she didn't know, she was so worked up she didn't listen to him.

 

MORONS.

[Wacka]

More fake people for Obama No Care

Link

 

By the way, impersonating a doctor is a crime.

[1billsfan]

The girl that was shown all over TV yesterday and today from the Specter Town Hall who said she didn't want the country to be turned into Russia was asked on FOX if she was happy with the answer Specter gave to her after her question. She said she didn't know, she was so worked up she didn't listen to him.

 

MORONS.

 

I saw that interview and you are the moron. This person was a REGULAR person. The kind that YOU dumb assh_e liberals were calling "fake" and "astroturf" just last week. This is what happens when you're a shy normal person who's not used to speaking in front of a large group of people. But no, make fun of her and call her a moron for being so overwhelmed by the moment that she didn't listen to the first part of his response. Just when I think that you liberals couldn't become any bigger jerkoffs, you somehow find a way to set the bar higher. Bravo!

[finknottle]

What I was trying to say is that without the government, and the programs and services it provides, America wouldn't be where we are today. No way, no how.

 

If the government is competent enough to field armies that bring tears of pride to wingnut eyes, it's competent enough to replace big fat profit-taking corporations that only succeed by hindering access to healthcare.

 

I bet that's what the Romans were saying circa 400 AD. A government competant to build the world's greatest empire is surely competant enough to continue to manage the economy, the infrastructure, and barbarian immigration (hey - we are all children of immigrants!).

[GG]

I saw that interview and you are the moron. This person was a REGULAR person. The kind that YOU dumb assh_e liberals were calling "fake" and "astroturf" just last week. This is what happens when you're a shy normal person who's not used to speaking in front of a large group of people. But no, make fun of her and call her a moron for being so overwhelmed by the moment that she didn't listen to the first part of his response. Just when I think that you liberals couldn't become any bigger jerkoffs, you somehow find a way to set the bar higher. Bravo!

 

I think it would be ok for her to be overwhelmed by the moment. The atmosphere was kinda like being jetlagged after a 7 country trip to Africa.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I think it would be ok for her to be overwhelmed by the moment. The atmosphere was kinda like being jetlagged after a 7 country trip to Africa.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

How is this not addressing the needs of the 40 million?

 

 

You yourself claim only 11 million people will use the public option. What, are 29 million people going to miraculously enroll in private health insurance?

[Kelly the Dog]

You yourself claim only 11 million people will use the public option. What, are 29 million people going to miraculously enroll in private health insurance?

Yep. I would suggest knowing something about the plans before asking dumb questions. They are going to be required to or pay a fine that will help others, their employers are going to have to provide some of the money, the government is going to provide subsidies for those persons or companies who cannot afford it. There will be new bare bones private plans available at lower cost.

[Kelly the Dog]

I saw that interview and you are the moron. This person was a REGULAR person. The kind that YOU dumb assh_e liberals were calling "fake" and "astroturf" just last week. This is what happens when you're a shy normal person who's not used to speaking in front of a large group of people. But no, make fun of her and call her a moron for being so overwhelmed by the moment that she didn't listen to the first part of his response. Just when I think that you liberals couldn't become any bigger jerkoffs, you somehow find a way to set the bar higher. Bravo!

 

She DIDNT LISTEN TO THE ANSWER OF THE PERSON SHE ASKED THE QUESTION OF. You're right, she sounds just like a regular person going to these meetings. They are pissed, they want to scream. They don't want to listen. I'm sure you can relate to that.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yep. I would suggest knowing something about the plans before asking dumb questions. They are going to be required to or pay a fine that will help others, their employers are going to have to provide some of the money, the government is going to provide subsidies for those persons or companies who cannot afford it. There will be new bare bones private plans available at lower cost.

 

So let me get this right: the government is going to FORCE employers to provide coverage to those employees who don't have it or they'll force those same companies to pay fines. And then, the government is going to use those fines to help pay for insurance for the people who have no insurance. Gotcha. No ponzi scheme there.

 

Oh, and what's to stop companies from laying people off to offset the new mandatory expenses being forced upon them by the government?

[Kelly the Dog]

So let me get this right: the government is going to FORCE employers to provide coverage to those employees who don't have it or they'll force those same companies to pay fines. And then, the government is going to use those fines to help pay for insurance for the people who have no insurance. Gotcha. No ponzi scheme there.

 

Oh, and what's to stop companies from laying people off to offset the new mandatory expenses being forced upon them by the government?

The government is going to help companies that cannot pay with subsidies, if you have less than 25 employees you are not forced to provide health care (this is the basics of the house plans and senate plans).

 

I am not positive where the fine money goes, but I believe it is put back into the health care system to help pay the overall cost.

 

It's not much different than it is now, on average every person with private insurance pays $1100 a year out of their policy to pay for others without insurance using emergency rooms as their insurance.

 

Why don't you try reading up on it for yourself sometime?

[Chef Jim]

I am not positive where the fine money goes,

 

"Free Parking". Hell they treat it like Monopoly money, they might as well play the game.

[GG]

I am not positive where the fine money goes, but I believe it is put back into the health care system to help pay the overall cost.

 

Kind of like Social Security taxes being segregated to pay Social Security benefits?

[Kelly the Dog]

Kind of like Social Security taxes being segregated to pay Social Security benefits?

Apparently there have been big arguments in Congress and the White House. There will be all this money in fines and most of the politicians wanted to use it to buy Russian companies and take over all private industry but Obama, ever the pragmatist, calms down those fears and said, "Let's wait for that, we have plenty of time to steal the country."

 

There are going to be some mandates. Where would you suggest the money from those mandates go? To pay down the debt? So the same amount of money from fines used to pay down the debt is spent by the government in health care which keeps the debt exactly the same?