scribo Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 To be clear, I am hoping Butler's back injury is minor and keeps him out for a very short time. But DJ didn't exude confidence on this issue yesterday. So, if it turns out Butler will be sidelined for let's say the rest of camp, would that force the Bills to bring in another decent (near-starter quality, at least) offensive tackle? I ask because I would love to see the Bills move Walker back over to RT and sign Levi or someone else with experience starting at LT. And if it does require bringing in someone new to start on the 0-line, what does that do to the potential use of the no-huddle? Remember, Turk blamed the late arrival of Peters for not implementing the no-huddle last season.
Bill from NYC Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 To be clear, I am hoping Butler's back injury is minor and keeps him out for a very short time. But DJ didn't exude confidence on this issue yesterday. So, if it turns out Butler will be sidelined for let's say the rest of camp, would that force the Bills to bring in another decent (near-starter quality, at least) offensive tackle? I ask because I would love to see the Bills move Walker back over to RT and sign Levi or someone else with experience starting at LT. And if it does require bringing in someone new to start on the 0-line, what does that do to the potential use of the no-huddle? Remember, Turk blamed the late arrival of Peters for not implementing the no-huddle last season. Injuries were already a serious problem wrt Butler imo. Aside from the games he missed, I think that he played hurt a lot last year, and was less effective. Don't be too surprised to see Chambers at LT and Walker returning to the right side. Wrt depth, the OT positions are extremely hard to fill. I wouldn't be too confident under any circumstances. You see, this is what people missed about the Peters mess. It really was easy to be angry at him for holding out, even if he wasn't driving around with guns and mowing down pedestrians and leaving them in the streets. You just can't replace these guys, so here we are once agin with all the frills, and cracks in the foundation. Bad or weak Tackles on both sides are bad anywhere in the NFL. In Buffalo, it's even worse when you can't run or stop the run. The condiditions dictate that this is a must. Levy and Jauron are to blame. Their influence needs to be exorcised from the team once and for all. Who would you rather have if Butler is hurt..... Davin Joseph AND Jeremy Trueblood, or Donte Whitner? Leodis McKelvin or Branden Albert? Jmo.
ThereIsNoDog Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Injuries were already a serious problem wrt Butler imo. Aside from the games he missed, I think that he played hurt a lot last year, and was less effective. Don't be too surprised to see Chambers at LT and Walker returning to the right side. Wrt depth, the OT positions are extremely hard to fill. I wouldn't be too confident under any circumstances. You see, this is what people missed about the Peters mess. It really was easy to be angry at him for holding out, even if he wasn't driving around with guns and mowing down pedestrians and leaving them in the streets. You just can't replace these guys, so here we are once agin with all the frills, and cracks in the foundation. Bad or weak Tackles on both sides are bad anywhere in the NFL. In Buffalo, it's even worse when you can't run or stop the run. The condiditions dictate that this is a must. Levy and Jauron are to blame. Their influence needs to be exorcised from the team once and for all. Who would you rather have if Butler is hurt..... Davin Joseph AND Jeremy Trueblood, or Donte Whitner? Leodis McKelvin or Branden Albert? Jmo. Yes, Peters was instead at home working on his clothing line and not learning his playbook, and then when he did show up, gave a half-hearted and poor effort on the field instead. It's amazing the Bills did jump at the chance to offer him $10M/year.
Bill from NYC Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Yes, Peters was instead at home working on his clothing line and not learning his playbook, and then when he did show up, gave a half-hearted and poor effort on the field instead. It's amazing the Bills did jump at the chance to offer him $10M/year. Yes, he held out. This is what has everybody upset. There was no way he could report in game shape. It isn't possible. I met Jumbo Elliot and asked him about Peters (I made a thread about it). He told me that it was absolutely not possible for a human to report after a holdout like this and be in shape to play LT in the NFL. Part of the reason we lost Peters is because he was stubborn. The other part is because the Bills were also stubborn, and they do not place proper emphasis upon the OL positions. Hopefully this has changed looking at the 2009 draft, but it takes time to correct a long term philosophy of losing and idiocy. It takes even longer to replace a star LT in the NFL. They don't grow on trees, ya know?
wonderbread Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 To be clear, I am hoping Butler's back injury is minor and keeps him out for a very short time. But DJ didn't exude confidence on this issue yesterday. So, if it turns out Butler will be sidelined for let's say the rest of camp, would that force the Bills to bring in another decent (near-starter quality, at least) offensive tackle? I ask because I would love to see the Bills move Walker back over to RT and sign Levi or someone else with experience starting at LT. And if it does require bringing in someone new to start on the 0-line, what does that do to the potential use of the no-huddle? Remember, Turk blamed the late arrival of Peters for not implementing the no-huddle last season. hahahahahah has he ever really exuded confidence
Coach Tuesday Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Injuries were already a serious problem wrt Butler imo. Aside from the games he missed, I think that he played hurt a lot last year, and was less effective. Don't be too surprised to see Chambers at LT and Walker returning to the right side. Wrt depth, the OT positions are extremely hard to fill. I wouldn't be too confident under any circumstances. You see, this is what people missed about the Peters mess. It really was easy to be angry at him for holding out, even if he wasn't driving around with guns and mowing down pedestrians and leaving them in the streets. You just can't replace these guys, so here we are once agin with all the frills, and cracks in the foundation. Bad or weak Tackles on both sides are bad anywhere in the NFL. In Buffalo, it's even worse when you can't run or stop the run. The condiditions dictate that this is a must. Levy and Jauron are to blame. Their influence needs to be exorcised from the team once and for all. Who would you rather have if Butler is hurt..... Davin Joseph AND Jeremy Trueblood, or Donte Whitner? Leodis McKelvin or Branden Albert? Jmo. Yep. Loadholt or Byrd, etc. etc. It never ends. Going into a season like this without a plan at the tackle positions is SUICIDAL. It's going to wreck not only Jauron's coaching career, which you can rest assured (seriously) will be completely finished, but it also may destroy any chance Edwards has to be a successful QB in this league (see: David Carr). It's idiocy at its finest. Getcha popcorn ready. (To be clear: I hope I'm wrong, believe me, but we've all seen this movie before, and we know how it ends.)
Bill from NYC Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Yep. Loadholt or Byrd, etc. etc. It never ends. Going into a season like this without a plan at the tackle positions is SUICIDAL. It's going to wreck not only Jauron's coaching career, which you can rest assured (seriously) will be completely finished, but it also may destroy any chance Edwards has to be a successful QB in this league (see: David Carr). It's idiocy at its finest. Getcha popcorn ready. (To be clear: I hope I'm wrong, believe me, but we've all seen this movie before, and we know how it ends.) Very true. Thanks for a well stated post. Jauron brought this on himself from day 1. He was so driven by the "play not to lose" mentality that he couldn't resist a safety at #8, so he could play him a mile from the ball. You want to see a nice guy like Jauron win but you won't, because he cannot. He is more likely to send in the kicker to try a 48 yard kick into a monsoon than try to aggressively coach a football team. The good news is that if he does keep losing, he is gone.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Yes, he held out. This is what has everybody upset. There was no way he could report in game shape. It isn't possible. I met Jumbo Elliot and asked him about Peters (I made a thread about it). He told me that it was absolutely not possible for a human to report after a holdout like this and be in shape to play LT in the NFL. Part of the reason we lost Peters is because he was stubborn. The other part is because the Bills were also stubborn, and they do not place proper emphasis upon the OL positions. Hopefully this has changed looking at the 2009 draft, but it takes time to correct a long term philosophy of losing and idiocy. It takes even longer to replace a star LT in the NFL. They don't grow on trees, ya know? I just do not believe that is true. Look at the way Jerry Rice trained on his own, look at the way TO trains on his own, MMA athletes train very hard. I think Peters & most others are just to LAZY to push themselves. They need someone to push them.
John Adams Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 It seems like Denney is averaging a sack a day in minicamp. I'd love to think that Denney has turned into a beast but the truth must be that RT is a mess right now.
K-9 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 I just do not believe that is true. Look at the way Jerry Rice trained on his own, look at the way TO trains on his own, MMA athletes train very hard. I think Peters & most others are just to LAZY to push themselves. They need someone to push them. Great point. Peters never struck me as the type to bust a few stairmasters like Bruce did in the his prime. I'll also go out on a limb and say that Peters isn't big on film study. Just a hunch. He's just so physically gifted he can be an ALL Pro just on his natural ability. Imagine how good he'd be if he was willing to really punish himself with conditioning. All the great ones stuck to rigorous workout regimens. GO BILLS!!!
Bill from NYC Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 I just do not believe that is true. Look at the way Jerry Rice trained on his own, look at the way TO trains on his own, MMA athletes train very hard. I think Peters & most others are just to LAZY to push themselves. They need someone to push them. Most of what Rice did involved running up hills, etc., right? An NFL LT prepares for a season by hitting, and getting hit by monsters as well as the other stuff. You could be the strongest guy on earth, but things change when a guy like Eric Wood is firing out and blasting you, or John Henderson is hitting you. If it was easy, every strong, fit, big guy could play in the NFL, no? My point is simply that it is a different type of preparation.
LynchMob23 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 I'm not usually one to jump into these forays, but Peters didn't want to be here. That was obvious by his showing up right before game one of the year. That's why they couldn't go with the no huddle set they wanted to run - if he showed up say two weeks before they had a shot. You win with a great line, but you can win with an okay - good line as well. Offensive line is one of the few group positions in sports where you can have 5 individuals collectively cover for one another (or bring one another down) and I enjoy watching them work. If the Giants can take a Center and make him a Super Bowl winning LT, why can't I trust in the pre-season our swap has a shot? By all means Bill and whomever thinks Jauron and Co need to go get that out - but can we at least see how the lines look against real comp before we go for the pitchforks and rail against picks of days gone by?
Bill from NYC Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 I'm not usually one to jump into these forays, but Peters didn't want to be here. That was obvious by his showing up right before game one of the year. That's why they couldn't go with the no huddle set they wanted to run - if he showed up say two weeks before they had a shot. You win with a great line, but you can win with an okay - good line as well. Offensive line is one of the few group positions in sports where you can have 5 individuals collectively cover for one another (or bring one another down) and I enjoy watching them work. If the Giants can take a Center and make him a Super Bowl winning LT, why can't I trust in the pre-season our swap has a shot? By all means Bill and whomever thinks Jauron and Co need to go get that out - but can we at least see how the lines look against real comp before we go for the pitchforks and rail against picks of days gone by? You are making sense, but did you read this quote in the thread, "(To be clear: I hope I'm wrong, believe me, but we've all seen this movie before, and we know how it ends.) " That is 100% true, and very indicative of how this team is, and has been managed. I am not btw saying to give up hope. If Butler is out, I would put Chambers at LT. He won't be any worse than Walker, who should go back to RT where he belongs. The quality would be about the same imo.
Chandler#81 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 To be clear, I am hoping Butler's back injury is minor and keeps him out for a very short time. But DJ didn't exude confidence on this issue yesterday. So, if it turns out Butler will be sidelined for let's say the rest of camp, would that force the Bills to bring in another decent (near-starter quality, at least) offensive tackle? I ask because I would love to see the Bills move Walker back over to RT and sign Levi or someone else with experience starting at LT. And if it does require bringing in someone new to start on the 0-line, what does that do to the potential use of the no-huddle? Remember, Turk blamed the late arrival of Peters for not implementing the no-huddle last season. I think the situation screams for another T in camp. At a minimum, maybe consider a fullback/H-back/blocking TE to use in the backfield to chip the speed rushers. As someone else posted, Denney is a world beater this camp ( ).. 'Nuff said.
LynchMob23 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 You are making sense, but did you read this quote in the thread, "(To be clear: I hope I'm wrong, believe me, but we've all seen this movie before, and we know how it ends.) " I did miss that quote - apologies! I think you're right too about Chambers/Walker. I'd rather have the strength of Walker/Wood on the Right with the Levitre/Chambers on the Left. I was actually talking to a friend that our protections against 3-4 or really good 4-3 Defensive Ends may be at times the Tackle (whomever that is) blocking down on the 5 Tech and the LG (Levtire) kicking underneath and handling the first thing that flashes across his face. Some Bills fans may remember that technique as the one that killed our chances against the Pats on SNF with Holcomb - Gandy did his job, but Bennie Anderson wiffed horrifically, allowing the sack/strip/fumble td that killed our hopes that time. With a mobile / nasty interior schemes like that have a better shot of working...
scribo Posted August 4, 2009 Author Posted August 4, 2009 Why won't these coaches just listen to us?!
Flbillsfan#1 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Most of what Rice did involved running up hills, etc., right? An NFL LT prepares for a season by hitting, and getting hit by monsters as well as the other stuff. You could be the strongest guy on earth, but things change when a guy like Eric Wood is firing out and blasting you, or John Henderson is hitting you. If it was easy, every strong, fit, big guy could play in the NFL, no? My point is simply that it is a different type of preparation. There were plenty of guys that were not with a team when Peters was holding out. Even if he had to pay one to come train with him with his paltry $3-4 Mill. salary, he could have found someone to train with outside of the team.................if he had that DESIRE.
RI Bills Fan Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Why won't these coaches just listen to us?! Maybe, being the complete idiots they obviously are, they think they know more about the players and the situation than a bunch of posers on a message board. Oh what fools these coaches be... [/sarcasm]
Mr. WEO Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Great point. Peters never struck me as the type to bust a few stairmasters like Bruce did in the his prime. I'll also go out on a limb and say that Peters isn't big on film study. Just a hunch. He's just so physically gifted he can be an ALL Pro just on his natural ability. Imagine how good he'd be if he was willing to really punish himself with conditioning. All the great ones stuck to rigorous workout regimens. GO BILLS!!! Weighing 400 lbs is not a gift.
BillsVet Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Chambers didn't start at LT last season during the Peters saga. If they moved Walker for those first games, it tells me about the coaching staff's belief in Chambers at LT. Personally, he's a man without a solid position. They played him at OG, particularly the away NE game, and he had a rough go of it. There are only so many times an OT will get help from a TE. I remember being upset that Fairchild held a TE in on many downs two seasons ago, but with inferior OT's, it's a requirement. Not to mention, the depth at the position such as Bell, et al are young rookies. I'd like to see a veteran, but the pickings are slim. Perhaps Levi Jones hasn't been signed for injury reasons, I don't know. But if there was ever a time to find one, it's now. I don't see Butler holding up the entire season.
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