Orton's Arm Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 The Bills went 0-6 against the 3-4 defenses of the AFC East; largely because of the collapse of their offense. Typically, you saw the following: On passing downs, the defense would rush three, and drop eight into coverage The Bills had smurf receivers. Which means that you can't just throw a jump ball to some guy who's covered and expect it to consistently work. Josh Reed missed a significant amount of playing time, further depriving the passing game of good targets. Guys like Fowler and Preston--the whole interior of the Bills' OL, really--typically got dominated by the NTs of the 3-4s. This meant that the QB usually had a lot less time to throw than one would expect, given that the defense was only rushing three. Trent Edwards played less well against 3-4s than he did against other kinds of defenses The Bills have attempted to address many of these issues in the off-season. They significantly upgraded the center position in free agency; while using a first and second rounder on a pair of OGs. Together, these measures should solidify the interior of the Bills' OL against those ugly NTs. The Bills signed Terrell Owens and drafted Nelson. That should help solve the problem of there being no one to throw to when the defense drops eight into coverage. If all this works, I'd expect Trent to look significantly better against 3-4 defenses this year than he did last year. Partly because I'd expect to see some improvement in the quality of Trent's play. But mostly it's because the situation in which Trent was placed, last season, when going up against 3-4 defenses, was absolutely terrible. The Bills' front office very clearly made a conscious effort to upgrade those circumstances in the off-season.
Billistic Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 The Bills went 0-6 against the 3-4 defenses of the AFC East; largely because of the collapse of their offense. Typically, you saw the following:On passing downs, the defense would rush three, and drop eight into coverage The Bills had smurf receivers. Which means that you can't just throw a jump ball to some guy who's covered and expect it to consistently work. Josh Reed missed a significant amount of playing time, further depriving the passing game of good targets. Guys like Fowler and Preston--the whole interior of the Bills' OL, really--typically got dominated by the NTs of the 3-4s. This meant that the QB usually had a lot less time to throw than one would expect, given that the defense was only rushing three. Trent Edwards played less well against 3-4s than he did against other kinds of defenses The Bills have attempted to address many of these issues in the off-season. They significantly upgraded the center position in free agency; while using a first and second rounder on a pair of OGs. Together, these measures should solidify the interior of the Bills' OL against those ugly NTs. The Bills signed Terrell Owens and drafted Nelson. That should help solve the problem of there being no one to throw to when the defense drops eight into coverage. If all this works, I'd expect Trent to look significantly better against 3-4 defenses this year than he did last year. Partly because I'd expect to see some improvement in the quality of Trent's play. But mostly it's because the situation in which Trent was placed, last season, when going up against 3-4 defenses, was absolutely terrible. The Bills' front office very clearly made a conscious effort to upgrade those circumstances in the off-season. Agree with everything, especially the, "If all this works..." part. I would add that the front sevens in our AFC East opponents are very talented and exceptionally well coached. How suddenly Schonert and Kugler are going to tip that aspect of the scale in the Bills favor escapes me. Also, it's problematic whether Nelson factors into the equation.
San-O Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 The Bills went 0-6 against the 3-4 defenses of the AFC East; largely because of the collapse of their offense. Typically, you saw the following:On passing downs, the defense would rush three, and drop eight into coverage The Bills had smurf receivers. Which means that you can't just throw a jump ball to some guy who's covered and expect it to consistently work. Josh Reed missed a significant amount of playing time, further depriving the passing game of good targets. Guys like Fowler and Preston--the whole interior of the Bills' OL, really--typically got dominated by the NTs of the 3-4s. This meant that the QB usually had a lot less time to throw than one would expect, given that the defense was only rushing three. Trent Edwards played less well against 3-4s than he did against other kinds of defenses The Bills have attempted to address many of these issues in the off-season. They significantly upgraded the center position in free agency; while using a first and second rounder on a pair of OGs. Together, these measures should solidify the interior of the Bills' OL against those ugly NTs. The Bills signed Terrell Owens and drafted Nelson. That should help solve the problem of there being no one to throw to when the defense drops eight into coverage. If all this works, I'd expect Trent to look significantly better against 3-4 defenses this year than he did last year. Partly because I'd expect to see some improvement in the quality of Trent's play. But mostly it's because the situation in which Trent was placed, last season, when going up against 3-4 defenses, was absolutely terrible. The Bills' front office very clearly made a conscious effort to upgrade those circumstances in the off-season. By the time Buffalo figures out what the rest of the division is doing, it's too late. Miami walked right bye Buffalo last year like they weren't even there.
john Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 By the time Buffalo figures out what the rest of the division is doing, it's too late. Miami walked right bye Buffalo last year like they weren't even there. Actually, if I recall correctly, both games against Miami were fairly close and should have been won by the Bills. Buffalo was leading late in the 3rd quarter/earl 4th vs. the Dolphins in Miami and probably would have won if not for an injured McGee getting toasted by Ginn all afternoon. In Canada the offense didn’t exactly play well but the biggest problem was the defense. Go back and look at the total yards given up in that game. Miami didn’t just walk past the Bills. Also, how many 3-4 defenses does a young QB face in college? Slim to none. Edwards is a smart kid. If he is as smart as they say he is, not factoring any of the upgrades to his weapons and to the o.line (or downgrades if that’s how you chose to view it), he should improve against the 3-4 simply by his previous experiences and extra practice/film study this offseason. Go Bills!! John
The Big Cat Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Actually, if I recall correctly, both games against Miami were fairly close and should have been won by the Bills. Buffalo was leading late in the 3rd quarter/earl 4th vs. the Dolphins in Miami and probably would have won if not for an injured McGee getting toasted by Ginn all afternoon. In Canada the offense didn’t exactly play well but the biggest problem was the defense. Go back and look at the total yards given up in that game. Miami didn’t just walk past the Bills. Also, how many 3-4 defenses does a young QB face in college? Slim to none. Edwards is a smart kid. If he is as smart as they say he is, not factoring any of the upgrades to his weapons and to the o.line (or downgrades if that’s how you chose to view it), he should improve against the 3-4 simply by his previous experiences and extra practice/film study this offseason. Go Bills!! John While Ginn did have a career day against the Bills, with few exceptions, most of his receptions were for naught. The games were lost because of turnovers, plain and simple. IIRC, in the first Miami game, Buffalo ended 4 of its last 5 possessions with turnovers. If a team were somehow to win a game under these circumstances, the world would explode. Also, to the OP, yes we were 0-6 against 3-4 defenses in the division, but we were an abysmal 1-8 against 3-4's the entire year. This being the case if AZ runs a 4-3 and OAK a 3-4, which I believe correct. The point here is to reinforce the idea that a crappy interior OLine matched with smurf receivers was positively pandemic for the Bills success in 2008. Wood, Handy, Levitre, Owens would have garnered us AT LEAST four more wins last year, good enough for 11-5, and a playoff berth, considering at least two of those wins would have come against division opponents. It's a damn shame we didn't hop on the opportunity to take advantage of our cakey schedule. 2009 will definitely be a gauntlet year for this squad/coaching staff.
DrFishfinder Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I think you can deposit a fair amount of the blame on Fewell. He has shown little if any ability to make or even attempt any adjustments when his D is getting torched. Let's see if he the same thing happens again this season.
The Big Cat Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I think you can deposit a fair amount of the blame on Fewell. He has shown little if any ability to make or even attempt any adjustments when his D is getting torched. Let's see if he the same thing happens again this season. If I were to play devil's advocate/be an apologist/be content with mediocrity, I'd say he's had a dearth of resources which allow him to make these "adjustments" you talk about. You gotta play the cards your dealt, and for the last three years, his have been pretty sh-tty.
DrFishfinder Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 If I were to play devil's advocate/be an apologist/be content with mediocrity, I'd say he's had a dearth of resources which allow him to make these "adjustments" you talk about. You gotta play the cards your dealt, and for the last three years, his have been pretty sh-tty. I take it that was the "apologist" response. I don't think I buy it.
Fixxxer Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Actually we went 1-6 against 3-4 defenses. We beat San Diego. Hopefully Trent figures it out this year with the help of more weapons, it's also imperative that the running game can help taking the pressure off Trent against this type of defense.
The Big Cat Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Actually we went 1-6 against 3-4 defenses. We beat San Diego. Hopefully Trent figures it out this year with the help of more weapons, it's also imperative that the running game can help taking the pressure off Trent against this type of defense. We also lost to cleveland and san fran
Fixxxer Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 We also lost to cleveland and san fran Good call, you're right.
Shamrock Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 A few runs audibled as well against a rushing 3-4 if they want 8 back can work, Otis Anderson (i said it) way back when...
BuffaloBill Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 In a copycat league it is not suprising that what was gleaned from film was that trent was absolutely lost if rush was limited to three or four linemen and everyone else dropped back into coverage. Not sure if it was him, the scheme or receivers failing to get open (all the above) but Trent never solved the puzzle.
Whites Bay Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 If all this works, I'd expect Trent to look significantly better against 3-4 defenses this year than he did last year. Partly because I'd expect to see some improvement in the quality of Trent's play. But mostly it's because the situation in which Trent was placed, last season, when going up against 3-4 defenses, was absolutely terrible. The Bills' front office very clearly made a conscious effort to upgrade those circumstances in the off-season. I agree to a large extent, but he's going to have to maintain the quick release that he showed early in the season. After that "Arizona" hit, it just looked like he was moving in slow motion. (I hate to be too critical, but he started to look like Johnson out there). Marino used to drive me nuts - 1, 2, 3 bang. It's a wonder Smith could EVER get to the guy.
Orton's Arm Posted July 31, 2009 Author Posted July 31, 2009 I agree to a large extent, but he's going to have to maintain the quick release that he showed early in the season. After that "Arizona" hit, it just looked like he was moving in slow motion. (I hate to be too critical, but he started to look like Johnson out there). Marino used to drive me nuts - 1, 2, 3 bang. It's a wonder Smith could EVER get to the guy. I agree that there's a lot of responsibility on Trent's shoulders to improve over what we saw from him against 3-4 defenses from last season. On the other hand . . . it's a lot easier to have a quick release if there's somewhere in particular you're supposed to put the football. If there are eight guys in coverage, and if your own receivers are smurfs, it may be very difficult to find a good spot to put the football. Now that the front office has gone out and gotten some bigger targets (especially T.O.) the onus is on the coaching staff to develop plays that will work even when there are eight guys in coverage. And the onus is on Trent to execute those plays.
spartacus Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 I agree that there's a lot of responsibility on Trent's shoulders to improve over what we saw from him against 3-4 defenses from last season. On the other hand . . . it's a lot easier to have a quick release if there's somewhere in particular you're supposed to put the football. If there are eight guys in coverage, and if your own receivers are smurfs, it may be very difficult to find a good spot to put the football. Now that the front office has gone out and gotten some bigger targets (especially T.O.) the onus is on the coaching staff to develop plays that will work even when there are eight guys in coverage. And the onus is on Trent to execute those plays. maybe instead of trying to force the ball into 8 men in coverage, they could run some draw plays into those huge holes between the 3 rushing DL.
ganesh Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Agree with everything, especially the, "If all this works..." part. I would add that the front sevens in our AFC East opponents are very talented and exceptionally well coached. How suddenly Schonert and Kugler are going to tip that aspect of the scale in the Bills favor escapes me. Also, it's problematic whether Nelson factors into the equation. I thought they did figure out the Jets and Dolphins for the most part and in fact could have won the road games at Miami and Jets if not for some bone headed plays by the Players. Everyone is making out Turk and Kugler to be some crap coaches...I do think they are capable...Sometimes, Dick Jauron also comes into the picture with his request for conservative play calling (except of course for the stupid play against the Jets)...
ganesh Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 By the time Buffalo figures out what the rest of the division is doing, it's too late. Miami walked right bye Buffalo last year like they weren't even there. Really......The Bills were actually up 16-7 in the 3rd quarter against the Mammals before self-exploding.
ganesh Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 I think you can deposit a fair amount of the blame on Fewell. He has shown little if any ability to make or even attempt any adjustments when his D is getting torched. Let's see if he the same thing happens again this season. When the talent level is poor, don't blame Fewell.. Schoebel, our best pass rusher was out....Neither Kelsay or Denney or the Rookie took the opportunity to raise above....McCargo was in the dog house. Greer and McGee missed time...
Orton's Arm Posted July 31, 2009 Author Posted July 31, 2009 maybe instead of trying to force the ball into 8 men in coverage, they could run some draw plays into those huge holes between the 3 rushing DL. No question. Sometimes football is a paper-rock-scissors game. Problem is that our coaching staff doesn't seem to realize that, when the other team keeps choosing paper, maybe it's time to stop choosing rock and start choosing scissors.
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