Wonderlic Scores Of NFL Players Are They Valid Predictors?

[Steely Dan]

Don't know how valid this site is but;

 

Pat McInally is the only football player to record a confirmed perfect score of 50. Ryan Fitzpatrick, a Harvard University graduate like McInally, has also been rumored to have scored a perfect score of 50 [1]. However, he later claimed to have left at least one of the 50 answer spaces blank [2], leading the media to question his perfect score.[2]. However, the Wall Street Journal reported that Fitzpatrick's actual score was 38 (still considered excellent), but that the figure of nine minutes is accurate.

 

This article about Fitzpatrick where Gil Brandt says he got a perfect 50.

 

And he did just that, according to Gil Brandt on NFL.com. Fitz completed the test in just nine minutes and scored a perfect 50.

 

Brandt wrote, "A genius walks among us."

 

The site also lists the average scores of football positions;

 

* Offensive Tackle - 26

* Center - 25

* Quarterback - 24

* Guard - 23

* Tight End - 22

* Safety - 19

* Linebacker - 19

* Cornerback - 18

* Wide receiver - 17

* Fullback - 17

* Halfback - 16

 

Offensive tackle and Center are higher than QB? That seems counterintuitive.

 

And some non-football related average scores;

 

* Chemist - 31

* Programmer - 29

* News writer - 26

* Sales - 24

* Bank teller - 22

* Clerical Worker - 21

* Security Guard - 17

* Warehouse - 15

 

Some historical NFL Wonderlic scores; (can't vouch for the accuracy of the site.)

 

Notable Wonderlic Scores

 

* Alex Smith: 40SportingNews.com: Stafford Is Wonderlic Ninja; Harvin Not So Much

* Eli Manning: 39SportingNews.com: Stafford Is Wonderlic Ninja; Harvin Not So Much

* Matt Leinart: 35USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Jay Cutler: 26 or 29USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Dan Marino: 16USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Javon Walker: 7USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Frank Gore: 6USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Vince Young: 6, 11 or 16, depending on the source

 

This article from 2007 questions the importance of Wonderlic scores in reference to NFL success. This article also seems to imply Fitzpatrick got a perfect score;

 

The only perfect scores were turned in by two Harvard men. As yet Ivy Leaguers aren't taking over league's rosters.

 

Also from that article;

 

A newspaper report says Troy Smith scored 15 on his first try at the Wonderlic test. That's below the NFL average and well below the average for quarterbacks.

 

If true, that score means:

 

a. He's the next Dan Marino.

 

b. He might not become the first player to get heavily recruited by both Bill Gates and NASA after his playing days.

 

c. He might not have playing days.

 

d. Not much at all.

[Steely Dan]

Here's a list of notable Wonderlic scores for QB's going back to 1982 and up to 2005.

 

Some dummies (15 or under):

 

George, Jeff

1990

Illinois

10

 

Stewart, Kordell

1995

Colorado

12

 

O'Donnell, Neil

1990

Maryland

13

 

Marino, Dan

1983

Pittsburgh

14

 

Garrard, David

2002

East Carolina

14

 

Cunningham, Randall

1985

UNLV

15

 

McNair, Steve

1995

Alcorn State

15

 

Some smarties (38 or over):

 

Griese, Brian

1998

Michigan

39

 

Manning, Eli

2004

Mississippi

39

 

Henson, Drew

2003

Michigan

42

 

Fitzpatrick, Ryan

2005

Harvard

37, 38, 50

[zonabb]

I've posted on this many times in regard to QBs only. My opinion and the stats bear it out is that it's only a valid predictor in QBs when you consider QBs who've won a SB in say the last 20 years (more available Wonderlic scores). Basically, without having the data with me here, QBs who have won SBs have Wonderlic scores in the 20s and above. There may be an exception (Favre maybe?) but by and large, the Steve Youngs, Troy Aikmans, Tom Bradys, Mannings et al are higher scoring QBs than those who've been drafted with high expectation but low Wonderlics.

 

To me with the QB it comes down to the a combination of average or above physical tools and a high Wonderlic. If you get a Vince Young or Jeff George with sick physical tools and poor scores, they're not SB winners. That's not my opinion, it's fact.

 

Sure, you have high scoring QBs who never win SBs, but a lot of that can be laid at poor teams, poor coaching and the law of averages, ie: only one QB wins it all every year.

 

So from a drafting standpoint, my opinion has been for many years, that using a draft pick on a physically gifted mental midget at QB never pans out. You're better off gambling on a brainy, average physically skilled Big Ten QB in the 6th round!

[Steely Dan]

I've posted on this many times in regard to QBs only. My opinion and the stats bear it out is that it's only a valid predictor in QBs when you consider QBs who've won a SB in say the last 20 years (more available Wonderlic scores). Basically, without having the data with me here, QBs who have won SBs have Wonderlic scores in the 20s and above. There may be an exception (Favre maybe?) but by and large, the Steve Youngs, Troy Aikmans, Tom Bradys, Mannings et al are higher scoring QBs than those who've been drafted with high expectation but low Wonderlics.

 

To me with the QB it comes down to the a combination of average or above physical tools and a high Wonderlic. If you get a Vince Young or Jeff George with sick physical tools and poor scores, they're not SB winners. That's not my opinion, it's fact.

 

Sure, you have high scoring QBs who never win SBs, but a lot of that can be laid at poor teams, poor coaching and the law of averages, ie: only one QB wins it all every year.

 

So from a drafting standpoint, my opinion has been for many years, that using a draft pick on a physically gifted mental midget at QB never pans out. You're better off gambling on a brainy, average physically skilled Big Ten QB in the 6th round!

 

Dan Marino had a 14 and was pretty damn good. IIRC, he won 14 games in his second year. I guess you're right about the SB thing but he was PDG. I believe Favre scored a 22 on his. Marino is the only person I'd have some argument with.

[lacoy38]

Don't know how valid this site is but;

 

Pat McInally is the only football player to record a confirmed perfect score of 50. Ryan Fitzpatrick, a Harvard University graduate like McInally, has also been rumored to have scored a perfect score of 50 [1]. However, he later claimed to have left at least one of the 50 answer spaces blank [2], leading the media to question his perfect score.[2]. However, the Wall Street Journal reported that Fitzpatrick's actual score was 38 (still considered excellent), but that the figure of nine minutes is accurate.

 

This article about Fitzpatrick where Gil Brandt says he got a perfect 50.

 

And he did just that, according to Gil Brandt on NFL.com. Fitz completed the test in just nine minutes and scored a perfect 50.

 

Brandt wrote, "A genius walks among us."

 

The site also lists the average scores of football positions;

 

* Offensive Tackle - 26

* Center - 25

* Quarterback - 24

* Guard - 23

* Tight End - 22

* Safety - 19

* Linebacker - 19

* Cornerback - 18

* Wide receiver - 17

* Fullback - 17

* Halfback - 16

 

Offensive tackle and Center are higher than QB? That seems counterintuitive.

 

And some non-football related average scores;

 

* Chemist - 31

* Programmer - 29

* News writer - 26

* Sales - 24

* Bank teller - 22

* Clerical Worker - 21

* Security Guard - 17

* Warehouse - 15

 

Some historical NFL Wonderlic scores; (can't vouch for the accuracy of the site.)

 

Notable Wonderlic Scores

 

* Alex Smith: 40SportingNews.com: Stafford Is Wonderlic Ninja; Harvin Not So Much

* Eli Manning: 39SportingNews.com: Stafford Is Wonderlic Ninja; Harvin Not So Much

* Matt Leinart: 35USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Jay Cutler: 26 or 29USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Dan Marino: 16USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Javon Walker: 7USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Frank Gore: 6USA Today: Will Wonderlic cause teams to wonder about Young?

* Vince Young: 6, 11 or 16, depending on the source

 

This article from 2007 questions the importance of Wonderlic scores in reference to NFL success. This article also seems to imply Fitzpatrick got a perfect score;

 

The only perfect scores were turned in by two Harvard men. As yet Ivy Leaguers aren't taking over league's rosters.

 

Also from that article;

 

A newspaper report says Troy Smith scored 15 on his first try at the Wonderlic test. That's below the NFL average and well below the average for quarterbacks.

 

If true, that score means:

 

a. He's the next Dan Marino.

 

b. He might not become the first player to get heavily recruited by both Bill Gates and NASA after his playing days.

 

c. He might not have playing days.

 

d. Not much at all.

anyone know what trent scored?

[Thoner7]

Ironically I took a Wonderlic yesterday as part of a job Application, the same exact thing they give the NFL guys. Scored a 33. The test is kinda like the SAT (which i scored a 1240/1600 on if you want to compare the two tests), some tricky word associations and math problems, so it really does not translate to football knowledge. But let me tell you, anyone who gets 15 or lower should have their head examined. The questions get harder as you progress, but the first 10-12 or so a third grader could answer. No exaggeration..."If you have six quarters, how much money do you have?"

 

After taking the test, a super high score wouldnt really help a player as there are tons of nerds our there that arent athletic, but a really low score would definitely make me think twice. I mean to score in the single digits one would have to be astoundingly stupid, ala Pacman Jones.

[Steely Dan]

anyone know what trent scored?

 

34

[Fewell733]

Ironically I took a Wonderlic yesterday as part of a job Application, the same exact thing they give the NFL guys. Scored a 33. The test is kinda like the SAT (which i scored a 1240/1600 on if you want to compare the two tests), some tricky word associations and math problems, so it really does not translate to football knowledge. But let me tell you, anyone who gets 15 or lower should have their head examined. The questions get harder as you progress, but the first 10-12 or so a third grader could answer. No exaggeration..."If you have six quarters, how much money do you have?"

 

After taking the test, a super high score wouldnt really help a player as there are tons of nerds our there that arent athletic, but a really low score would definitely make me think twice. I mean to score in the single digits one would have to be astoundingly stupid, ala Pacman Jones.

 

or if not truly stupid, at least not really able to read. Though I would assume there's a correlation there. Or some players may be hiding dyslexia, who knows.

[Steely Dan]

or if not truly stupid, at least not really able to read. Though I would assume there's a correlation there. Or some players may be hiding dyslexia, who knows.

 

Lysdexia ightm splainex.

[Orton's Arm]

Ironically I took a Wonderlic yesterday as part of a job Application, the same exact thing they give the NFL guys. Scored a 33. The test is kinda like the SAT (which i scored a 1240/1600 on if you want to compare the two tests), some tricky word associations and math problems, so it really does not translate to football knowledge. But let me tell you, anyone who gets 15 or lower should have their head examined. The questions get harder as you progress, but the first 10-12 or so a third grader could answer. No exaggeration..."If you have six quarters, how much money do you have?"

 

After taking the test, a super high score wouldnt really help a player as there are tons of nerds our there that arent athletic, but a really low score would definitely make me think twice. I mean to score in the single digits one would have to be astoundingly stupid, ala Pacman Jones.

If it was like the SAT; then that's reasonably reassuring. The SAT is (or at least was) designed to measure the general intelligence factor.

 

I have seen concerns raised about the Wonderlic being poorly designed. For example, one can supposedly significantly improve one's score by studying; which suggests that the test may largely be measuring the "achievement" of studying for it; as opposed to raw intellectual aptitude. Only the latter has any real applicability to football. Conversely, the sample version of the Wonderlic I saw online had one or two questions which, apparently, were deliberately intended to waste the test-taker's time; and to thereby prevent him from having enough time to finish many other questions on the test. (That gimmick is not the sign of a well-designed test for general intelligence.) If a player unfamiliar with the test design got caught in one of those traps, the result could be a score which significantly understates his intelligence. One wonders if this is what happened to Dan Marino, Neil O'Donnell, or some of the other players whose level of play appears to significantly exceed the mental limitations suggested by their Wonderlic scores.

 

If I were a GM, I'd find a high Wonderlic score reassuring, and a low score a serious cause for concern. But in neither case would I regard the scores as conclusive. I'd look for other evidence to either confirm or refute whatever the Wonderlic score seemed to indicate about the player's intelligence. But even once you're sure that you have a smart player at a position where intelligence is highly prized (such as quarterback), you're not necessarily guaranteed a successful player. On the other hand, I would not make the mistake of drafting a stupid quarterback, no matter how athletically gifted he might be.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Being smart is never a bad thing. American culture tries to avoid that basic fact with a lot of silliness denigrating "book smarts," but I cannot think of a single actual case when someone would say "let's let that dumb person decide."

 

Of course you need the physical skills, but assuming that anyone in the NFL has those skills, intelligence is the decisive element.

[Fingon]

While not perfect, the wonderlic does have some value. It's just another tool in a long line of things that are used to evaluate players.

[BuffaloBill]

I would say it definately adds value and is if nothing else directionally important. Do you need to be a genius to play in the NFL - no but it would not hurt if you have the physical tools. If you are not intelligent (insofar as the wunderlic actually measures this) does it matter - at some point yes - NFL playbooks and systems require mental ability to memorize and understand.

 

Not to be cruel but I really do wonder if the reason why Roscoe has not panned out as an NFL receiver is his inability to get on the same page as the rest of the O.

[The Dean]

While not perfect, the wonderlic does have some value. It's just another tool in a long line of things that are used to evaluate players.

 

It's another tool, but probably not a very good one, given the other available tools. It might have some very limited value if there was very limited information on a player. A 10 minute interview with the player, and another with his coaches would be FAR more valuable, though.

 

The Wonderlic is flawed on many levels, and the idea that at single score (with no additional analysis based on what questions were missed, where in the full order those questions were, the context of the past few and next few questions, wrong answers or skipped...etc) is sensationally low level.

 

Of course, once a player has a body of real NFL experience, the Wonderlic is completely useless and irrelevant, IMO. It starts pretty close to that, though.

[The Big Cat]

It's another tool, but probably not a very good one, given the other available tools. It might have some very limited value if there was very limited information on a player. A 10 minute interview with the player, and another with his coaches would be FAR more valuable, though.

 

The Wonderlic is flawed on many levels, and the idea that at single score (with no additional analysis based on what questions were missed, where in the full order those questions were, the context of the past few and next few questions, wrong answers or skipped...etc) is sensationally low level.

 

Of course, once a player has a body of real NFL experience, the Wonderlic is completely useless and irrelevant, IMO. It starts pretty close to that, though.

 

Am I correct in assuming the Wonderlic incorporates a lot of "knowledge" questions, not necessarily "intelligence" questions?

 

And if that's the case, couldn't the cultural bias of the test be called into question, thereby justifying why black players at "smart" positions like QB tend to test like dummies?

[The Dean]

Am I correct in assuming the Wonderlic incorporates a lot of "knowledge" questions, not necessarily "intelligence" questions?

 

And if that's the case, couldn't the cultural bias of the test be called into question, thereby justifying why black players at "smart" positions like QB tend to test like dummies?

 

 

There is likely cultural bias in the Wonderlic, as there is in most tests. But that's not the worst that you can say about the Wonderlic and I doubt it explains much of the difference between black and white QBs, if there really is a significant difference between them. I'd have to see more actual full Wonderlic tests to address that, though.

[Steely Dan]

Being smart is never a bad thing. American culture tries to avoid that basic fact with a lot of silliness denigrating "book smarts," but I cannot think of a single actual case when someone would say "let's let that dumb person decide."

 

Of course you need the physical skills, but assuming that anyone in the NFL has those skills, intelligence is the decisive element.

 

There's a DJ joke in there but I don't want to make it.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

There's a DJ joke in there but I don't want to make it.

 

 

Good idea. After all, you might not be flexible enough to bust a cap in your own a$$...

[Orton's Arm]

It's another tool, but probably not a very good one, given the other available tools. It might have some very limited value if there was very limited information on a player. A 10 minute interview with the player, and another with his coaches would be FAR more valuable, though.

 

The Wonderlic is flawed on many levels, and the idea that at single score (with no additional analysis based on what questions were missed, where in the full order those questions were, the context of the past few and next few questions, wrong answers or skipped...etc) is sensationally low level.

 

Of course, once a player has a body of real NFL experience, the Wonderlic is completely useless and irrelevant, IMO. It starts pretty close to that, though.

There is no correlation between how well someone does on an interview, and how well that person does upon subsequently being hired.

 

On the other hand, those who are unqualified for positions tend not to get interviews. And those who bomb interviews badly enough tend not to get hired. So it's possible that interviews can be used to weed out some bad candidates, despite the aforementioned datum.

 

On the other hand, there's a solid correlation between scores on well-designed aptitude tests and subsequent job performance. I, personally, am much more interested in a person's level of general intelligence, than I am in the specific skill set of making up something that sounds good to ace a job interview.

 

I'd also take what a player's coaches say with a grain of salt. If I knew the coach, and if I knew that the coach wouldn't lie or embellish anything out of loyalty to his players, then he'd be a potential gold mine of information. Problem is, there are a lot of coaches out there; and you don't necessarily know which ones are being honest with you, and which ones aren't.