Steely Dan Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 So let me get this straight...he's stupid for his wonderlic score, but smart enough to pick up an NFL offense? Sheesh, get a grip man. Also, he was apparently stupid enough that he doesn't think that a kid that's never taken a snap in the NFL should be getting paid (literally) 10x more than him. Oh wait, that was his agent's doing, so I guess he was stupid enough to hire a guy that would get him paid a king's ransom. We should all be so stupid. Lastly, I never said Bell needed to be an "athletic freak", I have no idea where you got that from. I'm aware of who made the superbowl, but if you're going to tell me that you'd rather have either Mike Gandy or Max Starks (or Demetrius Bell) constitute an above-average NFL left tackle, then I'm afraid this discussion is over. My point was simply that I'd rather know if Bell has the ability to play LT than if he's smart or congenial. He went about asking for a raise in the worst way a person could ever ask for a raise. That was a huge part of the problem. It was JP #1 and team second. Lee Evans wanted a raise too and showed up worked out and played and he got his. He's a team player that can satisfy his contract requests maturely. I'd be willing to bet dollars to Deerballs that he's crying for a new contract in 2011. Maybe because the organizations has had a good long, up close look at Bell, not only in a handful of preseason games from last year, but in multiple practice sessions, one on one conversations, game planning participation, attention to diet and conditioning, coachability, learning curve progress, and after disecting hours of Demetrius Bell video from OTAs, minicamps, last year's training camp, and practices throughout the 2008 campaign. If they see nothing but positives and expectations being met, it should be easy to see why they might be "high" on him. Most of us have only seen a fraction of what the Bills staff has in regard to the players skill level. I'm inclined to take their word for it. And BTW, when these writers put out glowing commentary about a particular player, often it comes via a recommendation by those in the Bills organization, who request anonymity, but are glad to have the players praised when it's deserved. The coaches put each one of their players under a microscope, not just in camp or from Sept-December, but all year long during their preparation for the next season. I have to assume that their view of Bell's potential must have been a positive, and figured into the Peters trade decision. What he said. Does anyone remember watching Jason Peters in practice when he FIRST lined up as a LT? The man was a beast but was slow and got killed by the speed rush. After time he got better and we all know the rest of the story. you may be right, this season may not be his, bu t next season I loko for Bell to be HUGE for the bills. just a hunch What he said too!
thebandit27 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 He went about asking for a raise in the worst way a person could ever ask for a raise. That was a huge part of the problem. It was JP #1 and team second. Lee Evans wanted a raise too and showed up worked out and played and he got his. He's a team player that can satisfy his contract requests maturely. I'd be willing to bet dollars to Deerballs that he's crying for a new contract in 2011. I understand all of that, Steely. My point is that he's not stupid or lazy just b/c he held out. Yes, he held out w/ 3 years left on his deal, but it's not as though it was completely unjustified. In any job scenario, when a guy with zero experience makes literally 10 times more than you, it's time to ask for a raise. If you're told you won't be getting one, you have to explore other options. I'm certain that's the way Peters' agent explained it to him, and as a guy with an employer that stated several times that he was a top-tier performer in his field, I'm sure it made sense to him. As to whether or not he'll ask for a new contract in 2011, I can't speak knowledgably, but my money's against you there. Just my 1 cent.
billybob Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 He went about asking for a raise in the worst way a person could ever ask for a raise. That was a huge part of the problem. It was JP #1 and team second. Lee Evans wanted a raise too and showed up worked out and played and he got his. He's a team player that can satisfy his contract requests maturely. I'd be willing to bet dollars to Deerballs that he's crying for a new contract in 2011. Of course that would make Philly stupid not Peters. While I'm amazed at the money professional athletes make the dollar per talent ratio seems more reasonable than some others in the entertainment field- Oprah, Beck, Stern, Limbaugh, Springer make huge money and to me seem hardly brilliant or talented- I sometimes think the key to making big money has more to do with having delusional opinion about yourself combined with an utter lack of shame then any smarts or talent.
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Thanks. Is the potential there for him to be as good as Peters? No way to tell. Hang around and see.
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 He did say the Bills were high on him so I'm guessing he heard that from a reliable source in the organization. Yup, no doubt. Or maybe he heard it on the boards? And anyway, when was the last time someone said "Bottom line, he's fodder," about one of these guys, anyone? Ask the Bills about Ellison, Bowen, Buggs, Huggins, or Kelsay and you'll get pretty much the same "he has the potential, we have confidence, he just has to show it on the field" stuff. I'm not saying that Bell is no good. Just that it's too early to judge and we have yet to see the slightest iota of proof.
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I've heard Bell's name, Thurm. They've said he's looked decent, but is still a little ways away from starting at LT. Recall that it took Peters 2-1/2 years to become the starting LT for the Bills. Hey, Dog, I appreciate the info about camp this year, because I haven't seen it. Glad to know he's looking decent. But Peters, in his first year, was a special teams juggernaut, single-handedly destroying four-man wedges on kicking teams and remember that blocked punt recovered for a TD? It may have been the play of the year. Peters was an awesome physical specimen from day one. And after he switched over to o-line for the first time (he'd been a TE through college and in his whole first year with the Bills) he was starting at RT within two or three very short months. He started 10 games in his second season, which was the first season he'd ever played o-line. Peters is NOT a good comparison to make when talking about Bell. Let's just hope that in the next couple of years, he becomes a better LT than Langston Walker. Or the Bills will end up spending a first-rounder on a new LT, IMHO. I hope I'm wrong about Langston, and hope I'm underestimating Bell. The second is more likely than the first, IMHO.
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 The better question is, does Bell have Peters' lack of intelligence and inflated ego? Inflated ego? Peters turned out to be exactly right about the salary he could get. He was right on the money.
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Most of us have only seen a fraction of what the Bills staff has in regard to the players skill level. I'm inclined to take their word for it. And BTW, when these writers put out glowing commentary about a particular player, often it comes via a recommendation by those in the Bills organization, who request anonymity, but are glad to have the players praised when it's deserved. The coaches put each one of their players under a microscope, not just in camp or from Sept-December, but all year long during their preparation for the next season. Yup. Just like all the glowing commentary we get about Ellison. And Kelsay. And ... I have to assume that their view of Bell's potential must have been a positive, and figured into the Peters trade decision. You could be right, and I hope so. But I thought that the decision to trade Peters came down to the organization's absolute commitment to giving DJ the best possible chance to win THIS YEAR. If Peters had held out again, it would not have been good for D.J. Whereas in the long-term, keeping him even without a contract and holding his feet to the fire would have been the best thing for the Bills in the long-term. Or, you know, paying him market value as an alternative.
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Does anyone remember watching Jason Peters in practice when he FIRST lined up as a LT? The man was a beast but was slow and got killed by the speed rush. After time he got better and we all know the rest of the story. you may be right, this season may not be his, bu t next season I loko for Bell to be HUGE for the bills. just a hunch Peters switched to LT in mid-season. What practices are you talking about? Are you talking about his second year at training camp, the first time he had ever played OL? If so, unfamiliarity may have been a lot of the reason for that slowness. If not, what practices are you talking about?
Thurman#1 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 He went about asking for a raise in the worst way a person could ever ask for a raise. That was a huge part of the problem. It was JP #1 and team second. Lee Evans wanted a raise too and showed up worked out and played and he got his. He's a team player that can satisfy his contract requests maturely. I'd be willing to bet dollars to Deerballs that he's crying for a new contract in 2011. Yup, Lee did, and he got a new contract. So did Greer, and he got ... nothing. And so did Pat Williams and he got ... zippo. And you could be right about him not playing through his contract in Philly. But there's nothing in his history that would indicate that. With the Bills in 2007, he was generally considered one of the best three LTs in the league. And he was the lowest-paid LT in the league. Out of 32, the lowest-paid. So if he is ever the lowest-paid LT in the league with Philly, while also being one of the three best in the league, yeah, I would expect him to cry for a new contract. And in that case he would deserve one. But if he's in the top quarter or third of the league in pay, there's no real reason to expect trouble, unless you just hate him and are determined to expect trouble. And in that case, who could stop you?
thebandit27 Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Yup, Lee did, and he got a new contract. So did Greer, and he got ... nothing. And so did Pat Williams and he got ... zippo. And you could be right about him not playing through his contract in Philly. But there's nothing in his history that would indicate that. With the Bills in 2007, he was generally considered one of the best three LTs in the league. And he was the lowest-paid LT in the league. Out of 32, the lowest-paid. So if he is ever the lowest-paid LT in the league with Philly, while also being one of the three best in the league, yeah, I would expect him to cry for a new contract. And in that case he would deserve one. But if he's in the top quarter or third of the league in pay, there's no real reason to expect trouble, unless you just hate him and are determined to expect trouble. And in that case, who could stop you? Our outstanding debate (see: Williams, Mike) aside, I completely agree on this one Thurman. The disparity is what caused the holdout. A LT that the organization touted as "the best in the NFL", who was the 21st highest-paid LT in the league and 30th highest-paid OT overall (at least that's what the link I found at the time published) deserves a raise. That said, he didn't do himself any favors with his play last year, which was substandard (even if it was--as I believe--caused by the holdout).
Dan Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Yup, Lee did, and he got a new contract. So did Greer, and he got ... nothing. And so did Pat Williams and he got ... zippo. And you could be right about him not playing through his contract in Philly. But there's nothing in his history that would indicate that. With the Bills in 2007, he was generally considered one of the best three LTs in the league. And he was the lowest-paid LT in the league. Out of 32, the lowest-paid. So if he is ever the lowest-paid LT in the league with Philly, while also being one of the three best in the league, yeah, I would expect him to cry for a new contract. And in that case he would deserve one. But if he's in the top quarter or third of the league in pay, there's no real reason to expect trouble, unless you just hate him and are determined to expect trouble. And in that case, who could stop you? Please clarify. Are you suggesting that there's nothing in Peters' history to suggest that he wouldn't ask for a new contract prior to his current contract running out?
Captain Caveman Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 And you could be right about him not playing through his contract in Philly. But there's nothing in his history that would indicate that. Other than the other two times in his first five years when he demanded and eventually received a reworked contract.
Arkady Renko Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Why worry about losing Howard Ballard when we got the CONDO.
ThereIsNoDog Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Inflated ego? Peters turned out to be exactly right about the salary he could get. He was right on the money. He would have gotten a similar deal from the Bills. But money doesn't bring you happiness. The Bills were his favorite team growing up and Buffalo's market/media are nothing like Philly's. The question is whether he was smart in taking (allegedly) more money to play where he'll be raked over the coals if he doesn't live up to his contract.
Steely Dan Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 Of course that would make Philly stupid not Peters. While I'm amazed at the money professional athletes make the dollar per talent ratio seems more reasonable than some others in the entertainment field- Oprah, Beck, Stern, Limbaugh, Springer make huge money and to me seem hardly brilliant or talented- I sometimes think the key to making big money has more to do with having delusional opinion about yourself combined with an utter lack of shame then any smarts or talent. That's why it's smart for Buffalo to let him go. Yup, no doubt. Or maybe he heard it on the boards? And anyway, when was the last time someone said "Bottom line, he's fodder," about one of these guys, anyone? Ask the Bills about Ellison, Bowen, Buggs, Huggins, or Kelsay and you'll get pretty much the same "he has the potential, we have confidence, he just has to show it on the field" stuff. I'm not saying that Bell is no good. Just that it's too early to judge and we have yet to see the slightest iota of proof. They don't say that they just don't say anything about those players. Yup, Lee did, and he got a new contract. So did Greer, and he got ... nothing. And so did Pat Williams and he got ... zippo. And you could be right about him not playing through his contract in Philly. But there's nothing in his history that would indicate that. With the Bills in 2007, he was generally considered one of the best three LTs in the league. And he was the lowest-paid LT in the league. Out of 32, the lowest-paid. So if he is ever the lowest-paid LT in the league with Philly, while also being one of the three best in the league, yeah, I would expect him to cry for a new contract. And in that case he would deserve one. But if he's in the top quarter or third of the league in pay, there's no real reason to expect trouble, unless you just hate him and are determined to expect trouble. And in that case, who could stop you? You can't be that clueless can you? Greer and Williams were in the LAST year of their contracts and became FA's who then got paid. JP had THREE years left on his contract. You really don't understand the difference? Seriously?
spartacus Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 He did say the Bills were high on him so I'm guessing he heard that from a reliable source in the organization. sounds like a misquote. it was probably "The Bills were high" when asked if Bell had any chance of impersonating an NFL lineman in 2009
Kenwick Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 We are seeing a lot of write ups on many of the Bills players and yet to date nothing really on Demetrius Bell. Last I heard he has moved his weight from 305 to around 315 to 320. He was weak a year ago and Schobel took him to school. Bell learned fast but he could not stop Schobels Bull rush. This year I hear he is strong as a horse. The talent is there for him to be very good at Left tackle. Great feet for a big man. His inexperience is his biggest weakness right now. I would love to see a writer talk about him like they do with the other players. I believe Bell may be the biggest sleeper on the team right now. He also may be one of the reasons the F.O. never picked in the draft or free agency a L.T. They may already have a pretty good back up on the team now in Bell. Time will tell..... Can't wait for the exhibition games... can you?
ThereIsNoDog Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 We are seeing a lot of write ups on many of the Bills players and yet to date nothing really on Demetrius Bell.Last I heard he has moved his weight from 305 to around 315 to 320. He was weak a year ago and Schobel took him to school. Bell learned fast but he could not stop Schobels Bull rush. This year I hear he is strong as a horse. The talent is there for him to be very good at Left tackle. Great feet for a big man. His inexperience is his biggest weakness right now. I would love to see a writer talk about him like they do with the other players. I believe Bell may be the biggest sleeper on the team right now. He also may be one of the reasons the F.O. never picked in the draft or free agency a L.T. They may already have a pretty good back up on the team now in Bell. Time will tell..... Can't wait for the exhibition games... can you? Where did you hear the bolded part? I've read about his weight being what you mentioned, but nothing about his strength.
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