Bolton on Daily Show

[Booster4324]

well, i had planned to drag up the future, but the past is all that i have to base my views upon.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

So people in the anti-tax movement are sheep? News flash: I don't listen to Rush. I'm working when he's on. I don't watch Hannity or FNC for that matter. I don't trust ANY media. I've been anti-tax for a lot longer than that. So tell me how I'm a sheep, please.

 

 

Wawrow...you never answered this post. Tell me how (when I don't listen to Rush, I don't watch FNC and I'm not a fan of hannity) how I'm a sheep because I'm anti-tax and anti-government, please. I'm dying to know.

[Delete This Account]

Wawrow...you never answered this post. Tell me how (when I don't listen to Rush, I don't watch FNC and I'm not a fan of hannity) how I'm a sheep because I'm anti-tax and anti-government, please. I'm dying to know.

first of all, people can't pick and choose what taxes go where, and what anti-government means. otherwise that makes people no better than part-time Catholics, choosing to cherry-pick the church's teachings and the Pope's pronouncments.

same thing here.

if people consider themselves to be anti-government, then give up the vote and start making your play for anarchy. fine with me. it's anyone's right.

and if people are anti-tax, then i'm guessing they're anti fire and police protection, and will soon have their shovels at the ready to begin digging their own sewer lines.

 

sure, Joe, i'm taking it to the very extreme, but you wanted -- no, were dying for -- an answer.

 

and there's no nobility in this day and age in being against taxes.

there's far too much wrong going on in society with a crumbling infrastructure, health care that serves too few and bankrupts far too many, and the rising shadow that the U.S. century is coming to a close in part because of this nation's polarized politics and an ill-timed and ill-advised Middle East conflict to push all of that aside in order to debate "taxes."

 

 

jw

[Alaska Darin]

there's far too much wrong going on in society with a crumbling infrastructure, health care that serves too few and bankrupts far too many, and the rising shadow that the U.S. century is coming to a close in part because of this nation's polarized politics and an ill-timed and ill-advised Middle East conflict to push all of that aside in order to debate "taxes."

 

 

jw

Except the collection of excessive taxes and the power gained from it is the foundation of what you're bitching about. Now head back to your bad whiskey for some more answers to things you apparently don't understand.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

first of all, people can't pick and choose what taxes go where, and what anti-government means. otherwise that makes people no better than part-time Catholics, choosing to cherry-pick the church's teachings and the Pope's pronouncments.

 

if taxes go toward programs that are not explicitly part of the Federal government's mandates as stated in the constitution, I'm against them. That would include: Social Security/Medicare /Welfare/Healthcare/Department of Education. The government needs to to what it's meant to do: to provide for common defense and to ensure interstate commerce. That's it.

 

and if people are anti-tax, then i'm guessing they're anti fire and police protection, and will soon have their shovels at the ready to begin digging their own sewer lines.

 

As those are functions of LOCAL government, I have no issue. But i DO have an issue sending billions of taxpayer dollars to the EPA, the Dept. of Education and HHS. Those are functions that the federal government have no business handling. But nice attempt at marginalizing a rational position. Try again.

 

and there's no nobility in this day and age in being against taxes.

there's far too much wrong going on in society with a crumbling infrastructure, health care that serves too few and bankrupts far too many, and the rising shadow that the U.S. century is coming to a close in part because of this nation's polarized politics and an ill-timed and ill-advised Middle East conflict to push all of that aside in order to debate "taxes."

 

really? there's no nobility in promoting individual freedoms over a bloated and oppressive government? Isn't that what our country was founded on? Oh, I forgot. You're a Canadian. Your country wasn't founded on those principles.

[Delete This Account]

the trouble with the anti-tax movement, which really has absolutely nothing to do with the Boston freaking Tea Party (though it's a real nice patriot blanket people can wrap around themselves to keep their beliefs warm), but more a consequence of the middle class' escape to the suburbs and believing that by leaving the city it can also avoid the responsibility.

what a great feeling of entitlement the suburbanites have carved out for themselves by thinking, "we don't live in the city, so why should we deal with city problems like poor education." that's "their" problem.

 

the anti-tax "movement" is a be-all but not an end all, with no one providing any proposals of how to address crime, education, health care. if anyone believes there is no correlation between these three issues, then there's no point proceeding with my argument because i, nor anyone else, has the capacity to make the blind see.

 

so, since i showed my cards, what are yours: i'll call your bluff and ask you to provide some solutions in how to get around and address the still outstanding issues.

 

and Joe, i figured you'd be above the "oh he's Canadian" stuff, but guess not. easy play. must feel real good about yourself. though it once again speaks to the point of my original post. based on how things have gone these past 20 years, is the American sense of superiority justified?

 

jw

[Alaska Darin]

the trouble with the anti-tax movement, which really has absolutely nothing to do with the Boston freaking Tea Party (though it's a real nice patriot blanket people can wrap around themselves to keep their beliefs warm), but more a consequence of the middle class' escape to the suburbs and believing that by leaving the city it can also avoid the responsibility.

Typical mass media garbage. The two have nothing to do with one another but the theory is simple enough to get lemmings to follow along so they do regurgitate it with authority.

what a great feeling of entitlement the suburbanites have carved out for themselves by thinking, "we don't live in the city, so why should we deal with city problems like poor education." that's "their" problem.

Yet we still spend more per student than any nation in the world, so perhaps it's not an issue of money. I guess that concept is far too complicated to delve into, though. That would cause a whole bunch of people a ton of discomfort, most of whom are the ones people in the media industry vote for in droves.

the anti-tax "movement" is a be-all but not an end all, with no one providing any proposals of how to address crime, education, health care. if anyone believes there is no correlation between these three issues, then there's no point proceeding with my argument because i, nor anyone else, has the capacity to make the blind see.

There are plenty of proposals for addressing each of those topics but none of them are very popular because they tear at the expensive empires that are firmly entrenched. I'm not surprised you're not familiar with them as the mass media tends to ignore anything that doesn't involve further spending of taxpayer money. It's the "bandaid on a brain tumor" mentality.

 

But we can pretend that the anti-tax movement is the one that disingenuous. Keep writing at the ninth grade level, John.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

so, since i showed my cards, what are yours: i'll call your bluff and ask you to provide some solutions in how to get around and address the still outstanding issues.

 

My 'bluff'? I'm not bluffing. Crime and Education are local matters and health care should remain in the private sphere with NO government intervention. It's the government's meddling in the healthcare and insurance industries that's created this "crisis."

 

Education in particular is best handled by the states and local school districts. WTF should the Federal government be meddling in local schools?

[Delete This Account]

Typical mass media garbage. The two have nothing to do with one another but the theory is simple enough to get lemmings to follow along so they do regurgitate it with authority.

 

Yet we still spend more per student than any nation in the world, so perhaps it's not an issue of money. I guess that concept is far too complicated to delve into, though. That would cause a whole bunch of people a ton of discomfort, most of whom are the ones people in the media industry vote for in droves.

 

There are plenty of proposals for addressing each of those topics but none of them are very popular because they tear at the expensive empires that are firmly entrenched. I'm not surprised you're not familiar with them as the mass media tends to ignore anything that doesn't involve further spending of taxpayer money. It's the "bandaid on a brain tumor" mentality.

 

But we can pretend that the anti-tax movement is the one that disingenuous. Keep writing at the ninth grade level, John.

keep blaming the "mass media," 'cause that's the solution to all problems?

 

jw

 

ADD: oh, and since you brought it up, some might have come up with the retort that at least i made it to the ninth grade, but that would be mean on my part, so i won't.

[Delete This Account]

My 'bluff'? I'm not bluffing. Crime and Education are local matters and health care should remain in the private sphere with NO government intervention. It's the government's meddling in the healthcare and insurance industries that's created this "crisis."

 

Education in particular is best handled by the states and local school districts. WTF should the Federal government be meddling in local schools?

i thought it was pure and simple greed that created the health care problem?

and yet you still provide no real solutions as to how all of these problems will be addressed by some phantorgasmical magic wand that will merely wipe things away clean. ... as for lowering taxes, here's a solution, perhaps federal funds would've been better spent had there been no mad rush to judgement on Iraq ... but there i go, bringing up silly details and the past again.

 

jw

[Alaska Darin]

keep blaming the "mass media," 'cause that's the solution to all problems?

 

jw

Let me know when you're willing (or more likely able) to discuss anything beyond the sound byte level. Until then feel free to stick to your cheap hooch and intellectually lazy takes. It amuses me because of your "stature".

ADD: oh, and since you brought it up, some might have come up with the retort that at least i made it to the ninth grade, but that would be mean on my part, so i won't.

You mean because I'd take that to heart or because you actually think that education equals intelligence? Because I have a hard time believing that even the majority of toadstools who inhabit this board would think you're anything more than average in that department.

[Magox]

i thought it was pure and simple greed that created the health care problem?

and yet you still provide no real solutions as to how all of these problems will be addressed by some phantorgasmical magic wand that will merely wipe things away clean. ... as for lowering taxes, here's a solution, perhaps federal funds would've been better spent had there been no mad rush to judgement on Iraq ... but there i go, bringing up silly details and the past again.

 

jw

you're being sarcastic right, regarding greed being the reason for health care problem?

 

You want solutions? I've got some, and no, a magic wand is not a part of it.

 

John, if the profit margins in the health insurance industry is at 3.3% and ranked #86 (which is way towards the bottom) in the U.S in profit margins per industry, how is greed the issue? Did you know that all the private health insurers had less than a $12 Billion profit last year? That's peanuts considering the size of the industry.

 

Why is the government proposing the "public option"? two reasons, they want to provide coverage to everyone, and they want to have a government entity compete with private insurers, to bring down costs. That doesn't make sense, considering the profit margins. If you want to provide more competition, then just open up the state lines and allow private insurers to offer their services and coverage on an intrastate basis. Waaalaaaa COMPETITION!!!!

 

According to a study done by Wellpoint Blue Cross Blue Shield, malpractice suits account for nearly 4% of health care costs. They also guesstimate that up to 15% is wasted on defensive medicine, because doctors and hospitals are scared crapless of getting sued and would rather just perform unnecessary tests and hand them out like condoms at a swingers club.

[Alaska Darin]

John, if the profit margins in the health insurance industry is at 3.3% and ranked #86 (which is way towards the bottom) in the U.S in profit margins per industry, how is greed the issue? Did you know that all the private health insurers had less than a $12 Billion profit last year? That's peanuts considering the size of the industry.

No offense but "book cooking" is an art form in this day and age. They can repeat that stat a million more times and it'll still be absolute poppycock. Not saying your point is lesser but that particular tidbit is of little merit.

[Magox]

No offense but "book cooking" is an art form in this day and age. They can repeat that stat a million more times and it'll still be absolute poppycock. Not saying your point is lesser but that particular tidbit is of little merit.

I would think that information could be accurately ascertained (IRS, studies). You would have to think that the liberals are hell bent on exposing the Health insurers, and if they were significantly "book cooking" then you know that the Liberals would cry foul. So I would think that the insurers would be careful about the numbers they would produce, don't you? Or do you think that they would just say to themselves "screw it! let's doctor the numbers, disguise it so they will never find it, and hope they don't expose it"?

 

I would say those numbers are pretty damn close to being correct.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

i thought it was pure and simple greed that created the health care problem?

and yet you still provide no real solutions as to how all of these problems will be addressed by some phantorgasmical magic wand that will merely wipe things away clean. ... as for lowering taxes, here's a solution, perhaps federal funds would've been better spent had there been no mad rush to judgement on Iraq ... but there i go, bringing up silly details and the past again.

 

jw

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOR Perhaps federal funds would have been better spent if they hadn't been sucked into the neverending void that is Medicare and Social Security, which, by the letter of the constitution, have NOTHING to do with the Federal government's function. But there I go, bringing up silly details and the past again.

 

[Alaska Darin]

I would think that information could be accurately ascertained (IRS, studies). You would have to think that the liberals are hell bent on exposing the Health insurers, and if they were significantly "book cooking" then you know that the Liberals would cry foul. So I would think that the insurers would be careful about the numbers they would produce, don't you? Or do you think that they would just say to themselves "screw it! let's doctor the numbers, disguise it so they will never find it, and hope they don't expose it"?

 

I would say those numbers are pretty damn close to being correct.

You obviously don't know much about accounting. It's pretty easy to show significantly lower profits through a variety of methods - all of which are legal. Every company I've ever worked for/with has done it, so I find it hard to believe it's not happening in health care.

 

Almost all data in the modern world is easy to manipulate and there isn't an easy way to change it.

[Delete This Account]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOR Perhaps federal funds would have been better spent if they hadn't been sucked into the neverending void that is Medicare and Social Security, which, by the letter of the constitution, have NOTHING to do with the Federal government's function. But there I go, bringing up silly details and the past again.

 

well, it was money poorly spent in the first place, so ... sure, glad you agree with me.

so, i'm guessing you'll decline your social security check once you're eligible. how good of you.

 

and magox, i wasn't being sarcastic. the amount of greed i've encountered using "privatized" health in this nation -- whether it's involving the drug companies or how the insurance companies have rejected claims -- well, sheesh, what else would you call it? robbery?

and i'm surprised that a health insurance-funded study found data that actually supported health insurance company's position that they're not greedy. phew, i'm convinced now.

 

jw

[Magox]

You obviously don't know much about accounting. It's pretty easy to show significantly lower profits through a variety of methods - all of which are legal. Every company I've ever worked for/with has done it, so I find it hard to believe it's not happening in health care.

 

Almost all data in the modern world is easy to manipulate and there isn't an easy way to change it.

I admit, I don't know much about accounting, however I do believe that there is a major agenda that is trying to get pushed through right now (Health Reform), and I truly believe that if the numbers were "doctored" significantly, that it would be exposed, that's what my common sense tells me.

 

This isn't business as usual anymore, there are major forces out there that are hellbent on pushing through this Health Care, and that would be a major risk to try to do (the health insurers) in deceiving the public.

 

Hell, congress is investigating the numbers, and just recently subpoenaed 15 of the major insurers and all their accounting paperwork. I'm pretty damn sure that they are going to hire 100's of accountas and lawyers to comb through every bit of information they have. If they see some "funny business" then I gotta believe that it will be exposed.

[Alaska Darin]

I admit, I don't know much about accounting, however I do believe that there is a major agenda that is trying to get pushed through right now (Health Reform), and I truly believe that if the numbers were "doctored" significantly, that it would be exposed, that's what my common sense tells me.

 

This isn't business as usual anymore, there are major forces out there that are hellbent on pushing through this Health Care, and that would be a major risk to try to do (the health insurers) in deceiving the public.

 

Hell, congress is investigating the numbers, and just recently subpoenaed 15 of the major insurers and all their accounting paperwork. I'm pretty damn sure that they are going to hire 100's of accountas and lawyers to comb through every bit of information they have. If they see some "funny business" then I gotta believe that it will be exposed.

It's systemic. Pretty much the way business is done. I don't know if any of them are doing anything "Enronian" and I doubt Congress could find anything even if it was overt. That's just not the way they work.

 

Like I said before, it's all legal. That doesn't mean it's not B.S.

 

I do agree that there is a major agenda, which should be expected any time one party has control of both the legislative and the executive. Luckily for us they're generally buffoons.

[Magox]

and i'm surprised that a health insurance-funded study found data that actually supported health insurance company's position that they're not greedy. phew, i'm convinced now.

jw

accept you're missing one point, The study was also done by non profit bluecross/blueshield.