Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Joe's #4 ""Making the most profit in the most ethical and beneficial way possible" is the way I and a lot of other business owner's do business. Faced with the 4Q2008 and 1Q2009 economy, our 24M/year business was getting the sh-- kicked out of it, and needed some things changed or we were probably headed to a dark place. So, what did we do? 1- owners took no pay for 5 months 2- We lowered health benefits from our fully paid-up Ferrarri plan to a nice fully-paid Cadillac plan, and at the same time gave some (but not all) of that savings back to our employees in a small (about $100/month on average) raise. 3- We laid off some people who would have and should have been laid off before but who we'd been keeping around just because we hoped they might someday not suck. The downturn made push come to shove and we let them go, all with 2 months pay. 4- We slashed and hacked at every bit of marketing and non-necessary expense we could. And out the other end, we got leaner and our people get a little less in benefits but overall, we're healthy again and the employees feel secure. We did this all ethically and with our employees interests at heart. If we only cared about the owners, we'd have slashed a lot more people and made the survivors work to the bone. We also would have cut salaries and hacked the crap out of benefits. And you know what, if things get so bad that the ship looked like it was going to sink, we'd have taken those steps too--not just out of self-preservation, but out of concern for the people who are here. Better to keep 80 people employed at 90% of their salary than 0 people at 0%. Believe it or not, most business owners care a ton about their employees. We had an awful meeting deciding to lay off the dead wood people--and in the end saved a couple just because. You eeeeeevil capitalist, you. EEEEEVIL I SAY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Guess I was wrong. Insurance companies are awesome and only out for the general public welfare. I thought you said capitalism is ok? Why is it hard to see that insurance is a risk adjusted business model. They price the premiums based on their assumption of the payouts, plus an assumed profit. Insurance companies can make infinite profits either if they overcharge for the risk, or if the risk event never happens. Part one is taken care of by the free market as other companies will step in to underwrite policies at a lower premium levels to capture more markets. Part two happens when rainbow farting unicorns descend into the market. Now, why do you need insurance regulators you ask? It is to smooth out the effect of part one. There naturally could be instances when a company established enough power that they overcharge for the services. Because it takes a long time for a competitor to evaluate the risk and enter the market to lower prices, the regulators smooth out the potential for temporary premium increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 They're not non-profit organizations, but they wouldn't be in business if they didn't pay out. Think about it. If the insurance company doesn't pay, who the hell is going to buy insurance? They should pay, and they eventually do, usually. The point is that's when they really start to gouge the public. I don't think, for instance, they should immediately up your premiums because they had to pay once, a lot of times for something that wasnt your fault. That way, they could still make hundreds of millions, just not countless hundreds of millions, and you have a few hundred dollars more money in your pocket to spend on whatever you want besides recently inflated insurance. I'm all for companies making huge profits, even record profits. I'm not all for companies making that extra 2-5-10% of profits by taking unreasonable advantage of the little guy just because they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Joe's #4 ""Making the most profit in the most ethical and beneficial way possible" is the way I and a lot of other business owner's do business. Faced with the 4Q2008 and 1Q2009 economy, our 24M/year business was getting the sh-- kicked out of it, and needed some things changed or we were probably headed to a dark place. So, what did we do? 1- owners took no pay for 5 months 2- We lowered health benefits from our fully paid-up Ferrarri plan to a nice fully-paid Cadillac plan, and at the same time gave some (but not all) of that savings back to our employees in a small (about $100/month on average) raise. 3- We laid off some people who would have and should have been laid off before but who we'd been keeping around just because we hoped they might someday not suck. The downturn made push come to shove and we let them go, all with 2 months pay. 4- We slashed and hacked at every bit of marketing and non-necessary expense we could. And out the other end, we got leaner and our people get a little less in benefits but overall, we're healthy again and the employees feel secure. We did this all ethically and with our employees interests at heart. If we only cared about the owners, we'd have slashed a lot more people and made the survivors work to the bone. We also would have cut salaries and hacked the crap out of benefits. And you know what, if things get so bad that the ship looked like it was going to sink, we'd have taken those steps too--not just out of self-preservation, but out of concern for the people who are here. Better to keep 80 people employed at 90% of their salary than 0 people at 0%. Believe it or not, most business owners care a ton about their employees. We had an awful meeting deciding to lay off the dead wood people--and in the end saved a couple just because. I totally agree with that and commend you. I think the vast, vast majorities of small businesses are awesome. I just don't think it is true of oil companies and insurance companies, even if they do take care of their employees nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Guess I was wrong. Insurance companies are awesome and only out for the general public welfare. Tell that to the family who has their father die unexpectedly but the wife and children are able to continue their lives because he had a nice life insurance policy that paid out. Oh that's right those stories don't make the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 They should pay, and they eventually do, usually. The point is that's when they really start to gouge the public. I don't think, for instance, they should immediately up your premiums because they had to pay once, a lot of times for something that wasnt your fault. That way, they could still make hundreds of millions, just not countless hundreds of millions, and you have a few hundred dollars more money in your pocket to spend on whatever you want besides recently inflated insurance. I'm all for companies making huge profits, even record profits. I'm not all for companies making that extra 2-5-10% of profits by taking unreasonable advantage of the little guy just because they can. If they DIDN'T adjust rates based on claim history, they'd go broke. That's the bottom line. Let's use car insurance for an example. If you rate a safe driver (no tickets, no accidents 10 years) the same as a guy who has three tickets, two accidents and a DUI in the same period the SAME, driver #2 will end up costing the company far more money, and will in turn raise rates for ALL customers. Same goes with health insurance. if some fat bastard has heart issues and diabetes, he's going to cost the company a LOT of money. Why should that guy pay the same amount as someone who's fit, doesn't smoke and rarely uses the insurance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 If they DIDN'T adjust rates based on claim history, they'd go broke. That's the bottom line. Let's use car insurance for an example. If you rate a safe driver (no tickets, no accidents 10 years) the same as a guy who has three tickets, two accidents and a DUI in the same period the SAME, driver #2 will end up costing the company far more money, and will in turn raise rates for ALL customers. Same goes with health insurance. if some fat bastard has heart issues and diabetes, he's going to cost the company a LOT of money. Why should that guy pay the same amount as someone who's fit, doesn't smoke and rarely uses the insurance? Did I say anything resembling any of that? I'm not saying abolish claim history or that rates shouldnt be higher for fat alcoholic smokers, of course it should. Of course if you get in more than one or two car accidents your rates should go up. I'm talking about raising rates of someone who didn't have any claims for 10 years and then suddenly has one that might not have been his fault (lets say he was struck by kid without insurance) and then they raise his rates because of the one accident. $25 or $50 bucks more a month or so for the next 10 years is a lot of money to that guy. Fine, if you guys think that companies should squeeze every cent they possibly can out of people, especially when they are most vulnerable, that's cool. That's what you believe and it's fine with me. I think huge companies like that can make enormous profits and not squeeze every possible cent out of people just because they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Did I say anything resembling any of that? I'm not saying abolish claim history or that rates shouldnt be higher for fat alcoholic smokers, of course it should. Of course if you get in more than one or two car accidents your rates should go up. I'm talking about raising rates of someone who didn't have any claims for 10 years and then suddenly has one that might not have been his fault (lets say he was struck by kid without insurance) and then they raise his rates because of the one accident. $25 or $50 bucks more a month or so for the next 10 years is a lot of money to that guy. Fine, if you guys think that companies should squeeze every cent they possibly can out of people, especially when they are most vulnerable, that's cool. That's what you believe and it's fine with me. I think huge companies like that can make enormous profits and not squeeze every possible cent out of people just because they can. Most car insurance companies have something called accident forgiveness. Look it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Did I say anything resembling any of that? I'm not saying abolish claim history or that rates shouldnt be higher for fat alcoholic smokers, of course it should. Of course if you get in more than one or two car accidents your rates should go up. I'm talking about raising rates of someone who didn't have any claims for 10 years and then suddenly has one that might not have been his fault (lets say he was struck by kid without insurance) and then they raise his rates because of the one accident. $25 or $50 bucks more a month or so for the next 10 years is a lot of money to that guy. Fine, if you guys think that companies should squeeze every cent they possibly can out of people, especially when they are most vulnerable, that's cool. That's what you believe and it's fine with me. I think huge companies like that can make enormous profits and not squeeze every possible cent out of people just because they can. While it may seem extreme, the surcharge is based on a risk weighting that you may be driving in situations that increase the risk. Just like a good driver in NJ will pay a much higher premium than a good driver in Iowa, for no other reason that there are a lot more idiot drivers in NJ than in Iowa. Doesn't sound fair to the good NJ driver, but the overall risk justifies it. When government stepped in to try to heavily regulate the NJ market, many private insurers left the state, and rates skyrocketed for everyone. When the regulators eased off and companies returned, the rates went down. Why don't you bring up that example in your screed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Most car insurance companies have something called accident forgiveness. Look it up I know about it. Sometimes it's quite a good deal. Sometimes they charge you for it so it's not. Sometimes they act like it's free but they raised rates to make it free. Sometimes they say you have it but they have adjusters who later decide if they will count it or not. Sometimes the courts ordered it and sometimes they took it away. Sometimes your kid on your plan gets in a fender bender and they raise rates on all five other cars you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Why don't you bring up that example in your screed? Because it would lessen the effectiveness of my screed, dummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Why don't we make all insurance companies exempt from paying taxes on their profits? We could throw in a stipulation that a certain percentage of the money goes toward lowering premiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Tell that to the family who has their father die unexpectedly but the wife and children are able to continue their lives because he had a nice life insurance policy that paid out. Oh that's right those stories don't make the news. I resemble that remark...Many moons ago my family was in that situation when my dad died and Allstate did their part. No complaints here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I resemble that remark...Many moons ago my family was in that situation when my dad died and Allstate did their part. No complaints here. Come to think of it... If I kick the bucket (especially before 45) my wife and children will be set. Maybe even sell the castle, move back to BFLO and buy a much bigger one... Live near relatives... Maybe pick up a new daddy/boyfriend and have a nice "leg-up" on life finacially speaking... All at my expense... Dammit I wish I didn't have to die! Ah, God bless them all anyway! Thank you insurance companies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I truley hate paying life insurance but hey...it's not all about me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I truley hate paying life insurance but hey...it's not all about me! EXACTLY! But, can't a little... Just a little be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 That would fall into the "taking it with you" category. We all know we can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 EXACTLY! But, can't a little... Just a little be? Read a book called "Missed Fortune" and find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Come to think of it... If I kick the bucket (especially before 45) my wife and children will be set. Maybe even sell the castle, move back to BFLO and buy a much bigger one... Live near relatives... Maybe pick up a new daddy/boyfriend and have a nice "leg-up" on life finacially speaking... All at my expense... Dammit I wish I didn't have to die! Ah, God bless them all anyway! Thank you insurance companies! You will be reincarnated as a cow and it will all make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 EXACTLY! But, can't a little... Just a little be? With the right policy a lot of it can be about you. And I have a question for you. What happens to your family if you die at 46? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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