Random, anonymous scout rips Maybin

[The Dean]

There's a bit of a reading comprehenision issue here. The piece was about Gholston, not Maybin, and the comparison related to a physical issue (stiffness), not heart, as well as the so-so level of competition in a relatively soft big 10 conference. The "heart" in this description -- or lack thereof -- is Gholston's, not Maybin's. The scout said that "He was not tough. He was not competitive." Note that he did not say "They."

 

"The problem with (Jets OLB) Vernon Gholston is that he never made plays (at Ohio State). He was not tough. He was not competitive. He was stiff — the same as (Bills DE) Aaron Maybin. They are both one-trick ponies who won off the edge against bad competition. They could get away with it in college because the skill level is not very good. At this (NFL) level, one-trick ponies without any heart need to have a special trait to survive — special get-off (speed) or special competitiveness."

[thewildrabbit]

I had questions about Maybin, too. I just hope the risk pays off. But I hardly think Poz was the deciding factor here. They actually have a scouting department, you know. If they didn't like what they saw, I doubt anything Poz said would make much of a difference. He may have played a very small part, but I doubt he was a major factor in the pick. Just IMO, of course.

Granted it is pure speculation on my part, I just don't see the Bills drafting him at #11 and not interrogating Poz thoroughly to find out what he was like in college. What he did off the field, who he hung out with and what kind of work ethic he possessed. I'd think they asked his coaches at Penn St the same type of questions, its just that another player might have a tendency to see more of what goes on outside the locker room.

[dave mcbride]

Dean: Say what? I said he compared them on exactly these things - physical skills and competition. Note that he did not compare on the so-called heart issue. That's all Gholston. Read it again.

[Lv-Bills]

There's a bit of a reading comprehenision issue here. The piece was about Gholston, not Maybin, and the comparison related to a physical issue (stiffness), not heart, as well as the so-so level of competition in a relatively soft big 10 conference. The "heart" in this description -- or lack thereof -- is Gholston's, not Maybin's. The scout said that "He was not tough. He was not competitive." Note that he did not say "They."

There was no reading comprehension on my part either, I didn't read the article.. I just read the posts and comment what I saw on Maybin. LOL. So, the comprehension on my point was fine, but I was only going on the posts. I could hardly stand another boring article about another rookie. I just wanted to chime in about Maybin.

[dave mcbride]

Granted it is pure speculation on my part, I just don't see the Bills drafting him at #11 and not interrogating Poz thoroughly to find out what he was like in college. What he did off the field, who he hung out with and what kind of work ethic he possessed. I'd think they asked his coaches at Penn St the same type of questions, its just that another player might have a tendency to see more of what goes on outside the locker room.

Like I said above, there's a reading comprehension problem with regard to the heart criticism.

[zazie]

It is clear the Bills took a big risk drafting Maybin, he might never develop into an NFL DE, perhaps a OLB though. That is an entirely different skill set and that is the reason Gholston feel on his face so hard, lots of undersized DE's in college simply can't make the transition to OLB in the NFL.

 

Maybin does have that fast first step and can run the arc better then most, his speed off the line is what sets him apart. From what I've seen and read he has no moves to go with his speed, so if an O lineman gets his hands on him...its over. Plus him being undersized at DE won't help much with stopping the run.

 

The upside on the guy can be great though, he could be another Dwight Freeney / Bruce Smith, that is saying a lot I know. I suppose we will all just need to wait and see how he develops.

 

Anyway, the Poz must have given the Bills a glowing report on Maybin, most likely why the Bills took the risk and drafted him.

Dwight Freeney had Tony Dungy and staff to help him develop his game. Bruce had Marv and staff. We need players that can play NOW, development is scarcely an option. We have DJ and staff. Sorry to be so negative but outside of DBs our staff is not known for bringing out the upside in young players

[zazie]

I'm not worried about that, counter moves can be taught. You can't teach explosive speed.

 

The kid is following Ray Lewis around, I will never question his heart. With a good coach, I think he'll definitely be above average when it's all said and done.

Ugh!

[thewildrabbit]

Like I said above, there's a reading comprehension problem with regard to the heart criticism.

dude, get a grip on Phenomenology

[The Dean]

Dean: Say what? I said he compared them on exactly these things - physical skills and competition. Note that he did not compare on the so-called heart issue. That's all Gholston. Read it again.

 

 

I disagree. This is about Gholston only:

"The problem with (Jets OLB) Vernon Gholston is that he never made plays (at Ohio State). He was not tough."

 

This is clearly a statement about both Gholston and Maybin:

 

"He was stiff — the same as (Bills DE) Aaron Maybin."

 

As the rest follows that comparison, it seems to me he is speaking of both Gholston and Maybin when he says:

"They are both one-trick ponies who won off the edge against bad competition. They could get away with it in college because the skill level is not very good. At this (NFL) level, one-trick ponies without any heart need to have a special trait to survive — special get-off (speed) or special competitiveness."

 

If he isn't talking about Maybin (as well as Gholston), who are "they". He calls them both "one trick-ponies" and goes on to say "one-trick ponies without any heart..." Where do you see him specifically exclude Maybin from that last characterization?

[thewildrabbit]

Dwight Freeney had Tony Dungy and staff to help him develop his game. Bruce had Marv and staff. We need players that can play NOW, development is scarcely an option. We have DJ and staff. Sorry to be so negative but outside of DBs our staff is not known for bringing out the upside in young players

DJ does know defense,and the Bills did hire a very experienced D line coach in the offseason

[Lori]

If he isn't talking about Maybin (as well as Gholston), who are "they". He calls them both "one trick-ponies" and goes on to say "one-trick ponies without any heart..." Where do you see him specifically exclude Maybin from that last characterization?

I agree. If he wasn't including Maybin in that statement, he needed to do a better job of clarifying that.

[zazie]

DJ does know defense,and the Bills did hire a very experienced D line coach in the offseason

Dj knows defensive backfields you mean; he really is a career db coach who somehow got to the next level (Ivy League maybe they thought he was smart or something) and failed his way up from there.

 

Let's hope you are right about the new line coach. My confidence in DJ is zero outside the dbs.

[rpcolosi]

I don't know what that guy's talking about, because Gholston was all over the field at Ohio State.

 

 

um likewise. gholston won't be as bad as he was his first year. a lot of people ripped mario williams too. problem with gholston is he really is a 4-3 end, not a OLB... but gholston was an absolute beast at OSU and was not a one move guy. he beat guards inside, he beat tackles outside, he played coverage. i normally like PFW a lot, but this guy seems a little bit like he is an SEC or PAC 10 fan and is just ripping the big 10 big time and using these two as his talking points.

[Simon]

"one-trick ponies without any heart"?

 

Okay, I'm biased. But having watched Maybin play, I have a REAL problem with the bolded part of that statement.

 

A ludicrously epic fail.

That kid plays his ass off.

[H2o]

I purposely titled the thread the way I did b/c I'm trying to avoid a slew of posts that simply argue that we should discount the source because it's just some random, anonymous scout. What I'd prefer (fat chance, I know) is a real discussion about the point this random, anonymous scout is making. Plus I like PFW's anonymous tidbits - credible or not, they're always interesting. I'll confess I didn't see Maybin play much in college, but from what I've read about him he's a different ilk than Gholston. And although I didn't love the pick (I wanted Ayers), the Bills don't usually draft guys who aren't *tough* or who don't love football. Thoughts?

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/07/2...y-with-handoffs

 

• "The problem with (Jets OLB) Vernon Gholston is that he never made plays (at Ohio State). He was not tough. He was not competitive. He was stiff — the same as (Bills DE) Aaron Maybin. They are both one-trick ponies who won off the edge against bad competition. They could get away with it in college because the skill level is not very good. At this (NFL) level, one-trick ponies without any heart need to have a special trait to survive — special get-off (speed) or special competitiveness."

This too was my opinion of Maybin. It's also why I was hoping for Everette Brown or Brian Orakpo because the two of them have a variety of moves and were strong as an ox.

[Pitta]

A ludicrously epic fail.

That kid plays his ass off.

 

Yea I question his size and strength wayyyyy before his heart and 1st step

[Thurman#1]

As for his get-off speed, he had the quickest ten yard split at the combine of any defensive lineman and it was faster than all but a few linebackers. He was also a fast riser approaching the draft. Hopefully he's not another Mike Mamula (although Mamula didn't suck...he just undershot expectations).

 

 

He was the fastest this year. Was that because he's really fast, or because this year, nobody was really fast.

 

Think about it, none of the DEs this year, Orakpo, Tyson Jackson, Ayers, Brown, none of them were awesomely fast. So it's possible that saying he was the fastest this year is damning him with faint praise.

 

I don't know what to think.

[Thurman#1]

I don't think you proved your case there, Dean, even with the giant-sized "THEY" duo. The sentence in question, the second with the reference to one trick ponies, is different. It could be read as either singular or plural, and it's the only one where "heart" is questioned.

 

Could go either way, and I don't think it's fair to assume that he meant both because he might have.

[thewildrabbit]

He was the fastest this year. Was that because he's really fast, or because this year, nobody was really fast.

 

Think about it, none of the DEs this year, Orakpo, Tyson Jackson, Ayers, Brown, none of them were awesomely fast. So it's possible that saying he was the fastest this year is damning him with faint praise.

 

I don't know what to think.

I'd have to think that if Maybin had started 3 years or more in college and put up the same numbers all 3 years he did last season he would have been the #1 overall, he has that much speed with that first step. But he is very raw and will need to learn so much at the NFL level.

 

There were so many questions about his sudden weight gain from 230 at the end of the year to 249 at the combine, and the fact he only started one year at Penn St.

 

 

2. Aaron Maybin, Penn State 6-5, 249

Pre-Combine Position Rank: 2

Post-Combine Skinny: He was even more rangy then expected, measuring taller than originally listed. While his straight-line speed was fine, running a 4.88, he lit it up in the cone and shuttle drills. The explosion came through in the vertical (38") and broad jump (10'4"), but the 22 benches was a bit of a concern.

Positives: Phenomenal athleticism … Can be used in a variety of ways on the outside. Tremendous quickness … Can cut on a dime.

Negatives: Not all that big. At 245 pounds, he might be an outside linebacker … Needs to prove he can handle himself against power running teams … Needs a few more pass rush moves.

 

http://cfn.scout.com/2/840503.html

 

I still would have drafted Orakpo, I think he will tear apart the NFL in 2 years

 

1. Brian Orakpo, Texas 6-3, 263

Pre-Combine Position Rank: 1

Post-Combine Skinny: The Combine was a microcosm of everything Orakpo is, for good and bad. He was a terror at times running a 4.7, benching 225 pounds 31 times, and leaping over 39 inches, but he hurt his hamstring raising even more questions about his durability.

Positives: Freakish combination of size and speed … Tremendous athlete. Unstoppable pass rusher with a variety of moves … Great burst. The offenses knew what was coming and still couldn’t stop him. Negatives: Durability concerns … Questions about motor. Great when it’s on. … Good run stopper, but he’s a pass rusher.

[VJ91]

I understand the need for anonymity; can't be caught in public dissing another team's players.

 

But read this piece by Tim, and then tell me Maybin plays with no "heart":

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-8-2/T...in-emerges.html

 

Great article, and excellent post!!

 

After reading that article, I have some questions about other posts on this thread:

 

First of all, with 12 sacks and 20 tackles behind the line of scrimmage, what the hell do you guys mean "there are no highlights of Maybin available on youtube"?? How hard could it be to search out any Penn State game and watch it until Maybin makes one of those 32 great plays??

 

Secondly, how could any scouts ignore those stats, and be a pro scout, and not already know everything about this kid that was written by Tim Graham??

 

Finally, for young kids like Gholston last year, and possibly Maybin this year, maybe, despite being stars at major college programs, they still might find the NFL huge steps up, and may need a couple of seasons before playing up to their full potential. So what??

 

Bruce Smith was everyone's number one pick of the '85 draft. (Everyone except myabe Ralph Wilson who was said to want Doug Flutie instead....thank you Bill Polian for steering Ralph away from that one!). Anyway, as Bruce enters the HOF this summer after setting the all time sacks record in the NFL (although Deacon Jones will once again remind us that they did not keep sack stats until years after he retired), does anyone remember how much he struggled in his first season, overwieght and a bit overwhelmed by the step up to the NFL? Bruce needed to address his off season training and nutrition in a big way before he turned into the great player he became. (And a big shout out to Rusty Jones for hleping Bruce become that player, too!)

 

So I say give these young defensive ends a year or three before writing them off as busts. Obviously, with the size and talent of the OT's in today's NFL, the DE position had become a bigger challange over the past 10 years or so.