More fun with the Birthers!

[Magox]

Please....don't judge conservatives on Sarah Palin.....thats like judging liberals on John Kerry

I think Jimmy Carter would have been a better example

[Adam]

I think Jimmy Carter would have been a better example

That would have been way too easy

[yall]

Please....don't judge conservatives on Sarah Palin.....thats like judging liberals on John Kerry

 

I still consider myself a conservative, although over the years I've found myself drifting toward the center, realizing that both groups have valid viewpoints and many of us tend to abandon reason in favor of towing party lines or adhering to talking points without careful consideration of the issues at hand.

 

That being said, she and her troop of wing-nuts are giving conservatism a bad name.

[Gene Frenkle]

I think Jimmy Carter would have been a better example

No matter what you think of him, at least he believes the Earth is more than 6.000 years old. When Palin wins her first Nobel Prize, she can enter the conversation.

 

Do they award a Nobel for Folksiness?

[Adam]

I still consider myself a conservative, although over the years I've found myself drifting toward the center, realizing that both groups have valid viewpoints and many of us tend to abandon reason in favor of towing party lines or adhering to talking points without careful consideration of the issues at hand.

 

That being said, she and her troop of wing-nuts are giving conservatism a bad name.

[Magox]

No matter what you think of him, at least he believes the Earth is more than 6.000 years old. When Palin wins her first Nobel Prize, she can enter the conversation.

 

Do they award a Nobel for Folksiness?

No, I get it!

 

Jimmuh Cahtuh is good, he knows what he's doing.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

No matter what you think of him, at least he believes the Earth is more than 6.000 years old. When Palin wins her first Nobel Prize, she can enter the conversation.

 

Do they award a Nobel for Folksiness?

 

 

Dude, the Nobel Prize? Really? They should stick to science awards, because their nominees for "peace" as of late have been suspect at best.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

I still consider myself a conservative, although over the years I've found myself drifting toward the center,

That being said, she and her troop of wing-nuts are giving conservatism a bad name.

Whats amazing is someone who is a centrist cant feel they are a conservative. I am a issues orientated person. On one issue I am as conservative as hell on others call me a liberal. In most cases I classify myself as a fiscal conservative and socially liberal.

[Dwight Drane]

It comes from this:

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf

It's a bunch of eight theories, about allocation of very scarce organs and vaccines and how difficult it is in ethics to determine who gets them.

 

As usual, it's total bullschitt.

 

Actually, it's pretty interesting stuff. I have no idea what the right answer is, but they are basically arguing that if you only have a few organs to transplant or vaccines to give but a lot of potential receivers, do you do it by 1] treating people equally (by lottery or first come first served), by 2] favoring the worst off (sickest first or youngest first), by 3] maximizing total benefits (by saving the most lives or prognosis of life years), or by 4] promoting and rewarding social usefulness (giving the example of a Seattle dialysis policy which favored parents and churchgoers). They argued the advantages and disadvantages of all of them, how some places use point systems, and then they came up with a theory of their own including a lot of those things as elements.

 

Did you read this?

 

Do you not understand that nearly every medical procedure will become scarce once we add 50 million patients to the system? Oh....I am sure you will have tons of qualified people clamoring to become doctors to meet the demand....at 1/2 the salary and being told by the government how to treat their patients.

 

 

 

This paper determines the Complete Lives System is the best choice. It's only a paper though, right?

 

 

What if I wrote a paper where instead of determining a healthy 25 year old was worth 7 sick 70 year olds......I said that a Christian was worth 7 Jews? Or a white was worth 7 blacks?

 

To quantify one human life over another in absolute terms is just plain sick. Yes....when the ship is going down....women and children to the lifeboat first. Funny thing is.....according to this Complete Lives System....we have it all wrong. All the working men ages 15-40 should be saved and we should let the little kids drown since we don't have as many resources "invested" in them.

 

Anyone who defends this is a Sick Fuk

[X. Benedict]

Did you read this?

 

Do you not understand that nearly every medical procedure will become scarce once we add 50 million patients to the system? Oh....I am sure you will have tons of qualified people clamoring to become doctors to meet the demand....at 1/2 the salary and being told by the government how to treat their patients.

 

 

 

This paper determines the Complete Lives System is the best choice. It's only a paper though, right?

 

 

What if I wrote a paper where instead of determining a healthy 25 year old was worth 7 sick 70 year olds......I said that a Christian was worth 7 Jews? Or a white was worth 7 blacks?

 

To quantify one human life over another in absolute terms is just plain sick. Yes....when the ship is going down....women and children to the lifeboat first. Funny thing is.....according to this Complete Lives System....we have it all wrong. All the working men ages 15-40 should be saved and we should let the little kids drown since we don't have as many resources "invested" in them.

 

Anyone who defends this is a Sick Fuk

In a finite system in which human organs are distributed now (or other scarce resources), how exactly do you save 7 70 year olds at the expense of a 25 year old? With a magic liver?

 

The paper is addressing issues in which medical decisions are indivisible. (e.g. one liver)

[Dwight Drane]

In a finite system in which human organs are distributed now (or other scarce resources), how exactly do you save 7 70 year olds at the expense of a 25 year old? With a magic liver?

 

The paper is addressing issues in which medical decisions are indivisible. (e.g. one liver)

 

"Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions"

 

 

Once again.....what is going to happen to the United States medical system once 50 million new patients are added, doctors see their salaries cut, and control is taken out of the hands of the provider and patient and given to the people who have devised this system?

 

An MRI in Canada takes 6 months to be completed. Is that scarce?

A CT scan.......A 15 MINUTE CT SCAN......4-6 months wait. Is that scarce?

 

Everything will become scarce except for being able to get antibiotics at the walk up grocery clinic because you have a sniffle.

 

This isn't partisan.............this is right/wrong.

 

You are smart enough to see where this very well could lead.

[Kelly the Dog]

What if I wrote a paper where instead of determining a healthy 25 year old was worth 7 sick 70 year olds......I said that a Christian was worth 7 Jews? Or a white was worth 7 blacks?

You say crazier schit than that on a daily basis. I'd bet 3-1 odds you say crazier schit than that just answering your cell phone when it rings.

[DC Tom]

What if I wrote a paper where instead of determining a healthy 25 year old was worth 7 sick 70 year olds......I said that a Christian was worth 7 Jews? Or a white was worth 7 blacks?

 

 

How you could possible equate that to the paper in question demonstrates that 1) you either didn't read or didn't understand the paper, or 2) you are full-goose batshit nutso crazy.

[Dwight Drane]

You say crazier schit than that on a daily basis. I'd bet 3-1 odds you say crazier schit than that just answering your cell phone when it rings.

 

So it is ok to value one life over another?

 

Understood.

[Kelly the Dog]

So it is ok to value one life over another?

 

Understood.

There is one liver available for transplant and three people waiting for the one liver. hey all need it immediately. One is a terminally ill woman in her eighties who has been waiting since Monday. Another is a 60 year old man with numerous other ailments and may not make it anyway waiting since Tuesday. The third is a 15 year boy who just came in looking for it but needs it immediately or he will die.

 

Who gets the liver transplant?

[Magox]

There is one liver available for transplant and three people waiting for the one liver. hey all need it immediately. One is a terminally ill woman in her eighties who has been waiting since Monday. Another is a 60 year old man with numerous other ailments and may not make it anyway waiting since Tuesday. The third is a 15 year boy who just came in looking for it but needs it immediately or he will die.

 

Who gets the liver transplant?

Is this a riddle?

[Dwight Drane]

There is one liver available for transplant and three people waiting for the one liver. hey all need it immediately. One is a terminally ill woman in her eighties who has been waiting since Monday. Another is a 60 year old man with numerous other ailments and may not make it anyway waiting since Tuesday. The third is a 15 year boy who just came in looking for it but needs it immediately or he will die.

 

Who gets the liver transplant?

 

That wasn't the only example.......the system is to put a quantitative value on a human life using age and health as a guide, in the case of determining who will receive "scarce medical intervention".

 

I understand that tough choices need to be made in certain circumstances. Problem is, this program that is getting rammed down our throats is going to multiply those circumstances exponentially.

 

Countless amounts of people will die while waiting for approval from a government stooge. Countless more will die waiting for access to tests and proceedures even after approval. Countless amounts will die when approval is denied.

 

Obama is on record saying they need to sneak single payer healthcare in through the backdoor.

 

 

This plan is devious and would be a disaster....and the average American can smell it. The current system is not ideal. Hospitals and Insurance Companies play games in order to stick it to the patient. I know first hand from having to deal with the system the past 10 years. I blame providers as well as insurance. I also know that the system is stressed to a breaking point right now with a lack of quality providers to keep up with current patient load. This new plan that takes away patient responsibility in paying and takes power away from the doctor as well will break the system for good. It doesn't take a math major to see what will happen.

 

I think healthcare needs to be more affordable. This is not the way to do it. By trying to shotgun this, they are only bringing scrutiny on themselves.

[Kelly the Dog]

Is this a riddle?

It is, "Who can take that extremely dire, serious, excruciating difficult ethical hypothetical and turn it into an obscene, political, gross distortion about your rival wanting to kill your grandmother because her life has no meaning?"

[Kelly the Dog]

That wasn't the only example.......the system is to put a quantitative value on a human life using age and health as a guide, in the case of determining who will receive "scarce medical intervention".

 

I understand that tough choices need to be made in certain circumstances. Problem is, this program that is getting rammed down our throats is going to multiply those circumstances exponentially.

 

Countless amounts of people will die while waiting for approval from a government stooge. Countless more will die waiting for access to tests and proceedures even after approval. Countless amounts will die when approval is denied.

 

Obama is on record saying they need to sneak single payer healthcare in through the backdoor.

 

 

This plan is devious and would be a disaster....and the average American can smell it. The current system is not ideal. Hospitals and Insurance Companies play games in order to stick it to the patient. I know first hand from having to deal with the system the past 10 years. I blame providers as well as insurance. I also know that the system is stressed to a breaking point right now with a lack of quality providers to keep up with current patient load. This new plan that takes away patient responsibility in paying and takes power away from the doctor as well will break the system for good. It doesn't take a math major to see what will happen.

 

I think healthcare needs to be more affordable. This is not the way to do it. By trying to shotgun this, they are only bringing scrutiny on themselves.

THERE IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER IN ANY BILL BEING DISCUSSED THAT HAS ANYONE BUT YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR AND YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY MAKING ANY DECISION ON YOUR CARE!!! NOTHING!! ANYWHERE!

[Dwight Drane]

THERE IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER IN ANY BILL BEING DISCUSSED THAT HAS ANYONE BUT YOU AND YOUR DOCTOR AND YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY MAKING ANY DECISION ON YOUR CARE!!! NOTHING!! ANYWHERE!

 

And the federal income tax was temporary and not capped at 20% because that was deemed to be outrageous.

 

Watch this:

 

Obama Lies.....Granny Dies