The Big Cat Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Exactly, as my initial post noted. It's not a question of a correlation to wins and losses alone, the Bills are different from the Patriots and Giants this year etc. Unlike them, the Bills rookies will be needed to contribute, especially along the offensive line. Dick should have back loaded and had more two-a-days in the middle part and end of camp, not for the veterans, but for the rookies who are needed to be contributors, immediately. If you are concerned about injuries and fatigue then you give veterans days off. Rookies need to practice to learn technique and discipline. Because Jauron did not do this, Maybin, Wood, Levitre and Byrd will, as Jauron stated; "miss work that's hard to make up." The entire organization knew that they would be granted an early start date for training camp because of the Hall Of Fame game therefore the front office had to be extra diligent to sign rookies earlier then other teams. Since the rookie salary pecking order has yet to materialize, the Bills decided not to set the market by signing and slotting them all. As a result, none of the Bills top 4 rookies will have experienced a two-a-day, they have lost practice time. Again, Dick was audacious to say that the rookies will "miss work that's hard to make up." Well ... why then is it hard to make up? Because you front loaded training camp with only two two-a-days in the first weekend which rookie contract hold outs would miss out on! Jauron has the power to rectify a lack of practice time for the rookies with a little foresight in scheduling! Yep, we all got your point, and by now it's been debunked. Did you not read the Ross Tucker article about 24/7/365 conditioning minimizing the need for two-a-days ramping up to the difficult NFL season? Do you not understand that this goes double for rookies since they're entering into by far the longest football season they've ever experienced? You do also realize that just because they're not "practicing" they're not completely idling, that there are these things called team meetings, unit meetings, and film sessions which aren't factored into the schedule?
Bufcomments Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Exactly, as my initial post noted. It's not a question of a correlation to wins and losses alone, the Bills are different from the Patriots and Giants this year etc. Unlike them, the Bills rookies will be needed to contribute, especially along the offensive line. Dick should have back loaded and had more two-a-days in the middle part and end of camp, not for the veterans, but for the rookies who are needed to be contributors, immediately. If you are concerned about injuries and fatigue then you give veterans days off. Rookies need to practice to learn technique and discipline. Because Jauron did not do this, Maybin, Wood, Levitre and Byrd will, as Jauron stated; "miss work that's hard to make up." The entire organization knew that they would be granted an early start date for training camp because of the Hall Of Fame game therefore the front office had to be extra diligent to sign rookies earlier then other teams. Since the rookie salary pecking order has yet to materialize, the Bills decided not to set the market by signing and slotting them all. As a result, none of the Bills top 4 rookies will have experienced a two-a-day, they have lost practice time. Again, Dick was audacious to say that the rookies will "miss work that's hard to make up." Well ... why then is it hard to make up? Because you front loaded training camp with only two two-a-days in the first weekend which rookie contract hold outs would miss out on! Jauron has the power to rectify a lack of practice time for the rookies with a little foresight in scheduling! Exactlyshows you how smart of a head couch he really is They could have scheduled 2 a days 5 days after camp started so the front office had a chance to sign players. you should post more often my friend , finally some truth and common sense on the lack of thought at OBD
The Big Cat Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Exactlyshows you how smart of a head couch he really is They could have scheduled 2 a days 5 days after camp started so the front office had a chance to sign players. you should post more often my friend , finally some truth and common sense on the lack of thought at OBD Yes! Let's have them go two a days within 10 days of game preparation. That's makes wonderful sense. I see now just how many sports you played growing up!
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Yep, we all got your point, and by now it's been debunked. Did you not read the Ross Tucker article about 24/7/365 conditioning minimizing the need for two-a-days ramping up to the difficult NFL season? Do you not understand that this goes double for rookies since they're entering into by far the longest football season they've ever experienced? You do also realize that just because they're not "practicing" they're not completely idling, that there are these things called team meetings, unit meetings, and film sessions which aren't factored into the schedule? I'm guessing he does not realize that at all.
Magox Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 I had assailed a similar post a week or so back, invoking the Club Marv days of our glory years, and mocking the airhorn wakeup calls of Greg(g) Williams. But Biscuit's documentation of recently excellent teams is very compelling. Even more so, our lack of success going back for a decade does not allow me to give the current football department the benefit of the doubt. When you place this well-articulated post atop the issue of the Bills never practicing in inclement weather, I think the argument that the team does not do enough appropriate on field work is very strong. Moreover, to defend the practices of a perennial loser (yes, that's what the Bills are) is a losing proposition. None of us really know the truth to this issue but the argument by the original poster grows stronger with every losing year. San Jose, the difference is that we have one extra week of practices, I think what is most important is the total amount of time out on the field. If you have 100 hours of practice in 30 days and you have a 100 hours of practice in 35 days, it is still 100 hours of practice. No big deal for me, what I don't like though is that we don't practice outdoors that often when it starts to get cold, that to me concerns me more.
Bufcomments Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Yes! Let's have them go two a days within 10 days of game preparation. That's makes wonderful sense. I see now just how many sports you played growing up! umm lets see Football 8 years (HS +college) Basketball 6 years Track 3 yrs So i guess I know a little something. Listen these guys are paid professionals. And young men . Let them earn their money and if somebody gets hurt thats what subs are for. Besides the Oline needs all the reps it can get. Oh BTW I played OT thank you so I know And I did all the sports above without getting paid.
Biscuit Posted July 26, 2009 Author Posted July 26, 2009 Yep, we all got your point, and by now it's been debunked. Did you not read the Ross Tucker article about 24/7/365 conditioning minimizing the need for two-a-days ramping up to the difficult NFL season? Do you not understand that this goes double for rookies since they're entering into by far the longest football season they've ever experienced? You do also realize that just because they're not "practicing" they're not completely idling, that there are these things called team meetings, unit meetings, and film sessions which aren't factored into the schedule? Debunked?! No you still don't get the point. Rookies need practice time to get better. Rookies who are expected to start need even more practice. The Bills have rookies who are expected to start, yet have less practice time scheduled. I read Tuckers article and read it when it first came out, if what he said was universally accepted, then two-a-days would be obsolete. If what you say, that team meetings, unit meetings and film sessions are as important as physical practice, then why practice at all? The Bills probably win every game on the chalk board. Every team has film time, and some teams practice more to implement what they learnt in those meetings. Also, really a "double" impact for rookies, is that based upon the same facts that "debunked" my point, per you.
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Yes! Let's have them go two a days within 10 days of game preparation. That's makes wonderful sense. I see now just how many sports you played growing up! Hey genius, do you think that this season a few extra practices would help the rookies out so that we don't have to hear our own coaching staff admit that they are uncomfortable giving playing time to guys like Leodis Mckelvin and James Hardy because they don't fully understand their plays/responsibilities?
The Big Cat Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Hey genius, do you think that this season a few extra practices would help the rookies out so that we don't have to hear our own coaching staff admit that they are uncomfortable giving playing time to guys like Leodis Mckelvin and James Hardy because they don't fully understand their plays/responsibilities? And just how much do you really think they'll learn from "practices?" Have you ever been at a practice where you're "learning" plays? Methinks no. It's a lot of standing, pointing, talking, etc. THEY'LL GET THEIR REAL PRACTICE IN OUR EXTRA GAME WHICH WILL BE WORTH ABOUT 20 "RUN" THROUGHS THEY'D OTHERWISE GO THROUGH AT "PRACTICE," genius.
The Big Cat Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 umm lets seeFootball 8 years (HS +college) Basketball 6 years Track 3 yrs So i guess I know a little something. Listen these guys are paid professionals. And young men . Let them earn their money and if somebody gets hurt thats what subs are for. Besides the Oline needs all the reps it can get. Oh BTW I played OT thank you so I know And I did all the sports above without getting paid. Great, I'm glad you're a former athlete, I truly am. I'm now confident that you grasp the idea the GAMES are much more valuable than PRACTICES. These guys aren't going full tilt against each other. "Practice" time is not nearly as valuable as you blow hards are making it out to be. Let them get hurt? That's what subs are for? How many mult-million dollar investments do you have?
The Big Cat Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Debunked?! No you still don't get the point. Rookies need practice time to get better. Rookies who are expected to start need even more practice. The Bills have rookies who are expected to start, yet have less practice time scheduled. I read Tuckers article and read it when it first came out, if what he said was universally accepted, then two-a-days would be obsolete. If what you say, that team meetings, unit meetings and film sessions are as important as physical practice, then why practice at all? The Bills probably win every game on the chalk board. Every team has film time, and some teams practice more to implement what they learnt in those meetings. Also, really a "double" impact for rookies, is that based upon the same facts that "debunked" my point, per you. Okay, I'll just go ahead and say it a third time: the rookies will learn 10 times more against live competition than they will during 100 practices. If you don't grasp this concept than this whole discussion is moot.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Just wanna say, we don't need all the name calling to disagree over an analytical discussion. There's good points on both sides. This was asked for before and I came up with this list. It was a pain in the ass but I was interested to find out the numbers. These are the 2008 playoff teams and number of two-a-days they had last training camp, and also the number of two-a-days for the Washington Redskins who like the Colts, played in the Hall of Fame game in 2008. Arizona 6 Atlanta 12 Baltimore 15 Carolina 7 Indianapolis 14 Miami 6 Minnesota 10 NY Giants 8 Philly 12 Pitt 0 San Diego N/A Tennessee 1 Washington 14 The average is 8.7 two-a-days for the 12 playoff teams plus Washington. I could not find the San Diego numbers. As pointed out before, the Bills have scheduled and completed their only two double sessions of this year's camp. It's very interesting to me that there is such a wide disparity in the approach that different teams take. We'll never know how much the number of two-a-days affect team success or failure but it's fun to debate...I think.
Biscuit Posted July 27, 2009 Author Posted July 27, 2009 Just wanna say, we don't need all the name calling to disagree over an analytical discussion. There's good points on both sides. This was asked for before and I came up with this list. It was a pain in the ass but I was interested to find out the numbers. These are the 2008 playoff teams and number of two-a-days they had last training camp, and also the number of two-a-days for the Washington Redskins who like the Colts, played in the Hall of Fame game in 2008. Arizona 6 Atlanta 12 Baltimore 15 Carolina 7 Indianapolis 14 Miami 6 Minnesota 10 NY Giants 8 Philly 12 Pitt 0 San Diego N/A Tennessee 1 Washington 14 The average is 8.7 two-a-days for the 12 playoff teams plus Washington. I could not find the San Diego numbers. As pointed out before, the Bills have scheduled and completed their only two double sessions of this year's camp. It's very interesting to me that there is such a wide disparity in the approach that different teams take. We'll never know how much the number of two-a-days affect team success or failure but it's fun to debate...I think. FYI: The Steelers had two-a-days in 2008, they have closed morning practices, therefore that number is difficult to determine if not published elsewhere. The Titans had more then one, because Jauron had the least last year which was only two. I believe they also have closed door morning practices and as a result it may be difficult to quantify.
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 And just how much do you really think they'll learn from "practices?" Have you ever been at a practice where you're "learning" plays? Methinks no. It's a lot of standing, pointing, talking, etc. THEY'LL GET THEIR REAL PRACTICE IN OUR EXTRA GAME WHICH WILL BE WORTH ABOUT 20 "RUN" THROUGHS THEY'D OTHERWISE GO THROUGH AT "PRACTICE," genius. So, after all these years, practice does not make perfect? 80 round trip tickets to Cancun please, 7-9 here we come. HOOORAY CONTINUITY!!!
spartacus Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Okay, I'll just go ahead and say it a third time: the rookies will learn 10 times more against live competition than they will during 100 practices. If you don't grasp this concept than this whole discussion is moot. would those be the games where when those rookie OL screw up our QB gets knocked out for the season??
Bufcomments Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Great, I'm glad you're a former athlete, I truly am. I'm now confident that you grasp the idea the GAMES are much more valuable than PRACTICES. These guys aren't going full tilt against each other. "Practice" time is not nearly as valuable as you blow hards are making it out to be. Let them get hurt? That's what subs are for? How many mult-million dollar investments do you have? Games are more valuable than practice, everybody knows this. But im telling you practice is more important to the Oline than you understand. Its not going out full tilt, the only time you really go full tint in practice is goalline drills or you go live during blocking drills. Those blocking drills separate the men from the boys. The more of them the better IMO, more so for rookies which by the way we need not 1 but 2 to start for us. As for the injury thing...yea maybe i was too hardcore with that but if you are not used to being physical in practice the chances of you being hurt in live games goes up Perfect example of lack of practice for a lineman....Jason Peters
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 would those be the games where when those rookie OL screw up our QB gets knocked out for the season?? At least it will be a well rested rookie O-lineman that gives up the sack, and I guess that is all that matters. Oh and btw, I'm sure that lineman will love playing hard for Dick Jauron. Just ask him.
Biscuit Posted July 27, 2009 Author Posted July 27, 2009 Okay, I'll just go ahead and say it a third time: the rookies will learn 10 times more against live competition than they will during 100 practices. If you don't grasp this concept than this whole discussion is moot. No, rather since you have stated as much, that you do not value "practice" and believe that nothing can be learnt from it, any discussion with you is moot. Attempting to quantify the value of game action over practice is an absurd attempt by you, which lessens any point you attempt to make. Your quantifications are based solely in innuendo and not in fact. If what you imply is even remotely true teams would only schedule opposing team scrimmages and preseason games and no practice during training camps.
Lori Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 FYI: The Steelers had two-a-days in 2008, they have closed morning practices, therefore that number is difficult to determine if not published elsewhere. Don't know if this has been covered previously in this thread, but the Bills have a closed morning walkthrough on every day when they have another practice scheduled.
The Big Cat Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 No, rather since you have stated as much, that you do not value "practice" and believe that nothing can be learnt from it, any discussion with you is moot. Attempting to quantify the value of game action over practice is an absurd attempt by you, which lessens any point you attempt to make. Your quantifications are based solely in innuendo and not in fact. If what you imply is even remotely true teams would only schedule opposing team scrimmages and preseason games and no practice during training camps. Listen to the democrat and chronicle's podcast from yesterday and tell me how valuable these practices are.
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