If At First You Don't Secede - Try Again

[Kelly the Dog]

How many of them filed with false SSN?

One year there were almost 8 million people whose SSN didn't match up but only a portion of those were illegals. It's hard to say. Some articles say thousands of illegals file returns, some imply it's a couple million. I would guess it's probably higher than most people assume. And a lot of those who are applying are doing so to establish a record of paying taxes thinking it will help them gain citizenship later. I don't think it's going to help them but who knows.

 

It's too many, regardless. And I am not sure how exactly they are going to prevent it but there is, for example, specific language in the House Bill to stop illegals from getting it, not to help them to get it.

 

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/Content/Arti...px?rsrcid=49930

[Kelly the Dog]

Does it matter? I don't want to pay for any illegal's health insurance. Hell there are some stupid and ugly people I'd probably like to leave out.

I don't either. Then again, I am all for going after employers that hire too many illegals in the first place in addition to going after the illegals themselves.

 

Regardless, there is going to be some that get it. I don't at all think we should prevent 40 million people for getting it just because a million are going to be getting it when they shouldn't.

[Chef Jim]

I don't either. Then again, I am all for going after employers that hire too many illegals in the first place in addition to going after the illegals themselves.

 

Regardless, there is going to be some that get it. I don't at all think we should prevent 40 million people for getting it just because a million are going to be getting it when they shouldn't.

 

You think we start handing out free health insurance to illegals that they are not going to start flooding over the border again? I'm not for any free health for anyone let alone illegals.

[Kelly the Dog]

You think we start handing out free health insurance to illegals that they are not going to start flooding over the border again? I'm not for any free health for anyone let alone illegals.

It's going to be relatively free for very poor people, and relatively cheap for low income people. There are 10-20 million or so who can afford it now but choose not to, like young adults in the workplace who think they don't need it, but that drives up the cost for the rest of the country.

 

BTW, there is a new report out today from the CBO that says the public plan will only have 10-11 million people in it ten years from now, and it will be approximately 10% less than the similar private plans. So it isn't going to come anywhere close to driving out private insurers. That's a total fallacy.

[X. Benedict]

Just remember, if it weren't for Illegal Immigrants, there would be no Texas.

[Wacka]

It's going to be relatively free for very poor people, and relatively cheap for low income people. There are 10-20 million or so who can afford it now but choose not to, like young adults in the workplace who think they don't need it, but that drives up the cost for the rest of the country.

 

BTW, there is a new report out today from the CBO that says the public plan will only have 10-11 million people in it ten years from now, and it will be approximately 10% less than the similar private plans. So it isn't going to come anywhere close to driving out private insurers. That's a total fallacy.

 

What about Page 16????

[Chef Jim]

Just remember, if it weren't for Illegal Immigrants, there would be no Texas.

 

Hell if it weren't for illegal immigrants I'd be living in Italy on the Adriatic.

[IDBillzFan]

There are 10-20 million or so who can afford it now but choose not to, like young adults in the workplace who think they don't need it, but that drives up the cost for the rest of the country.

So the answer is to tax the rich so these people don't have to pay for insurance they don't want. No sense making everyone pay for it since the rich have so much money.

 

BTW, there is a new report out today from the CBO that says the public plan will only have 10-11 million people in it ten years from now, and it will be approximately 10% less than the similar private plans. So it isn't going to come anywhere close to driving out private insurers. That's a total fallacy.

Does it talk about how effective all the tort reform recommendations will be in all of this?

[Kelly the Dog]

What about Page 16????

 

"Page 16" is just plain stupid and a lie, like a lot of the other complaints (there are numerous legitimate complaints, but these conspiracy theories are just foolish). It doesn't at all say private insurance will be outlawed, it says just the opposite, that people will be able to buy individual plans in the exchange. In other words, individuals have a huge ability that was unavailable before. They can now individually join all kinds of plans depending on the ones they like, and all of the other individuals who like that plan will get "group" rates.

Investor’s Business Daily did not continue to read the bill to page 19. “Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan. ”

 

It does not outlaw individual private coverage – you can still buy the plan on the Exchange where they will compete with the public option, not be replaced by it. The advantage of the Exchange, is that the coverage no longer has one of the problems of individual coverage – skyrocketing premiums should you become ill.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

So the answer is to tax the rich so these people don't have to pay for insurance they don't want. No sense making everyone pay for it since the rich have so much money.

In the last 30 years, the "rich" have had their taxes cut 15% and their taxable incomes in that time period have increased 300%. The rich are getting much richer not poorer, and they are pulling away from their middle class counterparts at ridiculous levels.

[IDBillzFan]

In the last 30 years, the "rich" have had their taxes cut 15% and their taxable incomes in that time period have increased 300%. The rich are getting much richer not poorer, and they are pulling away from their middle class counterparts at ridiculous levels.

So, again, the answer is to tax the rich because...y'know...they're rich. Look...if I'm at a diner, and I'm being waited on by a waitress who isn't rich, and I AM rich, I should give her my money because it's neighborly. And you know what she'll do with that money. She'll use it to go to school. Get an education. Specialize in a field. Improve her lot in life and really contribute to society as a whole, because our souls are broken, and they need to be mended, and the only way to mend them to is give the waitress a bigger tip.

 

Gee, it all just sounded so good when I was on the showroom floor.

[Kelly the Dog]

So, again, the answer is to tax the rich because...y'know...they're rich. Look...if I'm at a diner, and I'm being waited on by a waitress who isn't rich, and I AM rich, I should give her my money because it's neighborly. And you know what she'll do with that money. She'll use it to go to school. Get an education. Specialize in a field. Improve her lot in life and really contribute to society as a whole, because our souls are broken, and they need to be mended, and the only way to mend them to is give the waitress a bigger tip.

 

Gee, it all just sounded so good when I was on the showroom floor.

If the less rich were making more money percentage-wise than their rich counterparts over that time, and the discrepancy between the upper class and middle class was getting significantly smaller and not larger, I would be all for cutting upper class taxes, not adding to them. But they're not, it's just the opposite. The rich get tax BREAKS on health care that people that make a lot less money don't get. The taxes on the rich are at historic lows overall. If this reform goes through, chances are pretty good that the rich will pay LESS overall, including the tax increase, not more.

[Chef Jim]

If the less rich were making more money percentage-wise than their rich counterparts over that time, and the discrepancy between the upper class and middle class was getting significantly smaller and not larger, I would be all for cutting upper class taxes, not adding to them. But they're not, it's just the opposite. The rich get tax BREAKS on health care that people that make a lot less money don't get. The taxes on the rich are at historic lows overall. If this reform goes through, chances are pretty good that the rich will pay LESS overall, including the tax increase, not more.

 

Yup there ya have it folks, let's just remove any incentive to be rich

[IDBillzFan]

Yup there ya have it folks, let's just remove any incentive to be rich

They're already doing that, which is why many believe this economy won't recover with jobs. No one wants to spend money when they have no idea just how much the current administration is going to make the wealthy pick up the tab. Screw that. They're making enough. No need to expand. No need to hire. Let's just wait and see how health care and cap-n-trade works out.

 

What's that? Health care is put off until Q4. No problem. I'll just wait until 2010 before I hire anyone else. And I'll cut bennies in the meantime. And 401K matching. And any other perks.

 

Cuz who knows what the hell they'll tax next. According to Max Baucus, they're coming up with some "interesting" and "creative" ideas that he refers to as "kind of fun."

 

What a bunch of !@#$ing buffoons.

[/dev/null]

Cuz who knows what the hell they'll tax next. According to Max Baucus, they're coming up with some "interesting" and "creative" ideas that he refers to as "kind of fun."

 

Nancy would never let that pass the House. Even if it did, John Kerry would filibuster. Even if it passed the Senate, Biden would tell Obama to veto.

 

That kind of tax unfairly and disproportionately affects a key minority - Politicians

[finknottle]

They're already leaving in droves right now because there's no work. This is a great time to eliminate entitlements. No schooling. No health care. No welfare. Nothing unless you prove citizenship, and even that is a challenge because illegals swap fake social security cards like candy.

 

I'm not sure they are leaving in appreciable numbers, from what I've read. Rather, the influx has dropped off.

[finknottle]

By the way, contrary to misinformation and persistent lies, illegal immigrants will NOT be covered in the health care bills. It's not in the House bill, and they are not even discussing the possibility in the Senate bill outside of some Democrats, and the President, who want to protect children of illegals if they get sick. But pretty much the only people in the 47 million who are not insured now that won't be insured, are the estimated 6-8 million illegals. (There may be more than 6-8 million illegals in the country, the 6-8 number comes from the estimates of how many of the 47 million people living in America without insurance are here illegally).

 

Given the fact that hospital costs are being driven up by emergancy room care for illegal immigrants, which in turn is spread onto the premiums of the insured, how is not covering illegal immigrants (insorfar as requiring insurance) going to help contain medical costs?

 

Note that when a hospital negotiates a discounted rate for the poor and uninsured, illegal immigrants have a significantly higher rate of skipping out on the bill than do citizens who - though perhaps poor - are established in their communities and cannot just run from the creditors. Consequently, the expected discounted reimbursment from a citizen versus an illegal alien is higher.

 

Or are you saying that the cost of uninsured illegal immigrants is negligible in comparison to the cost of treating the uninsured overall?

[Dante]

Aren't you worried that your million dollar "duplex" will roll down the mountain?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lighten up, I'm just kidding.

Truthfully, that has crossed my mind more than once. I'm thankful that rainfall here isn't that much or I'd really be worried. Rainfall+Earthquake=

heh..view is a million but the duplex isn't

[X. Benedict]

Hell if it weren't for illegal immigrants I'd be living in Italy on the Adriatic.

 

would that suck?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

BTW, there is a new report out today from the CBO that says the public plan will only have 10-11 million people in it ten years from now, and it will be approximately 10% less than the similar private plans. So it isn't going to come anywhere close to driving out private insurers. That's a total fallacy.

 

You think. That's all anyone can do, speculate. But why would employers continue to carry health coverage if a plan is out there with the Federal Government?