IDBillzFan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Where is the money going to come from to send them back- do you want to raise taxes again? You can't just say "Hey, if I ask you to go back, will you do it?" Honor program won't work in this case. I can't speak for Texas, but entitlements (health care, schooling, welfare, etc.) to illegals in California have been estimated to cost between $6-7 billion annually, and in fact it's one of the biggest problems with the state's current budget woes. I'm fairly certain it won't cost that much to drive everyone back to Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Freedom? Texas is the state that is probably the most dependent on the Federal government tit. Do you know how many illegals live in Texas alone? And how many of them are getting FREE medical treatment? coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I can't speak for Texas, but entitlements (health care, schooling, welfare, etc.) to illegals in California have been estimated to cost between $6-7 billion annually, and in fact it's one of the biggest problems with the state's current budget woes. I'm fairly certain it won't cost that much to drive everyone back to Mexico. By the way, contrary to misinformation and persistent lies, illegal immigrants will NOT be covered in the health care bills. It's not in the House bill, and they are not even discussing the possibility in the Senate bill outside of some Democrats, and the President, who want to protect children of illegals if they get sick. But pretty much the only people in the 47 million who are not insured now that won't be insured, are the estimated 6-8 million illegals. (There may be more than 6-8 million illegals in the country, the 6-8 number comes from the estimates of how many of the 47 million people living in America without insurance are here illegally). Lawmakers say the health care bill will aim to cover everyone — except undocumented workers, who account for about 6million to8 million of the 47 million uninsured. No senator has made any overt push to cover illegal immigrants in the comprehensive bill. But Democrats, including Obama, have supported coverage for children of illegal immigrants. Border-state Republicans have taken a hard line against any kind of policies that they say would encourage more illegal immigration. Acknowledging the political land mines, Baucus said there are no plans to provide coverage to illegal immigrants. “That is just taking on too much water,” he said. “We’re not going to take this on in the bill.” Obama agrees with the approach. “First of all, I’d like to create a situation where we’re dealing with illegal immigration, so that we don’t have illegal immigrants,” Obama said in a CBS News interview. “And we’ve got legal residents or citizens who are eligible for the plan. And I want a comprehensive immigration plan that creates a pathway to achieve that.” Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/...l#ixzz0MOsQY1dJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I think you're mixing up your stereotypes. Liberals are traditionally hippies more than anything. I'm pretty sure that being metro sexual isn't really associated with one party or the other. Now get back in your trailer, Cletus. He's not idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 He's not idiot. No, he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Lieutenant Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I can't speak for Texas, but entitlements (health care, schooling, welfare, etc.) to illegals in California have been estimated to cost between $6-7 billion annually, and in fact it's one of the biggest problems with the state's current budget woes. I'm fairly certain it won't cost that much to drive everyone back to Mexico. If you know the secret of how to locate, detain, process, deport, and prevent the reentry of 2.8 million illegals for under 2,500 dollars each you should probably run for CA governor. (legally of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 By the way, contrary to misinformation and persistent lies, illegal immigrants will NOT be covered in the health care bills. I agree completely. All I keep hearing from politicians is that we have "46 million uninsured Americans," and anyone who is paying even the least bit of attention knows that number is a lie. And the lie goes beyond the number of illegals in that figure. Actually, the left is up to their nutsacks in problems with their health care reform/health insurance reform/whatever they call it this week that polls well. Once they explain to everyone that they don't plan to cover the illegals, they then have to explain how taxpayers are going to fund abortions. That ought to be loads of fun to watch. Now don't get your Tingles in a fluff. I personally don't give a crap about that. But the right is starting to promote that, and when you have fear mongering from the left and fear mongering from the right, you can count on one of two things happening: either nothing will get done, or if it does, it'll be something embarrassingly useless like the stimulus bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I can't speak for Texas, but entitlements (health care, schooling, welfare, etc.) to illegals in California have been estimated to cost between $6-7 billion annually, and in fact it's one of the biggest problems with the state's current budget woes. I'm fairly certain it won't cost that much to drive everyone back to Mexico. Until they come right back and you have to do it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I agree completely. All I keep hearing from politicians is that we have "46 million uninsured Americans," and anyone who is paying even the least bit of attention knows that number is a lie. And the lie goes beyond the number of illegals in that figure. Actually, the left is up to their nutsacks in problems with their health care reform/health insurance reform/whatever they call it this week that polls well. Once they explain to everyone that they don't plan to cover the illegals, they then have to explain how taxpayers are going to fund abortions. That ought to be loads of fun to watch. Now don't get your Tingles in a fluff. I personally don't give a crap about that. But the right is starting to promote that, and when you have fear mongering from the left and fear mongering from the right, you can count on one of two things happening: either nothing will get done, or if it does, it'll be something embarrassingly useless like the stimulus bill. 1] Why is that 46 million number a lie? I'm not saying that it isn't, but why is it a lie to you? 2] I sincerely doubt that abortion provision is going to last. I would probably bet you right now it won't last. It's just flat stupid to be included in the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Until they come right back and you have to do it again They're already leaving in droves right now because there's no work. This is a great time to eliminate entitlements. No schooling. No health care. No welfare. Nothing unless you prove citizenship, and even that is a challenge because illegals swap fake social security cards like candy. But the very simple fact remains that if you keep doing what you're doing, you keep getting what you're getting. Our very own president is making a living by repeatedly shouting that the status quo is not acceptable any more. Now, that doesn't mean we do something stupid just so we can show we're not keeping with the status quo, but illegal immigration is a monster cause of problems in this country, and unless we start to change the way immigrants are handled, we'll never get out of this hole. I'm not saying it'll be easy. And it certainly won't be cheap. But to ignore the problem simply because "they may come back again" is a lazyass cop out. What is discouraging is that in 1994, almost 60% of Californians voted to approve Prop 187, which took welfare, education and health care away from illegal aliens. And of course, by the time it made its way to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, California changed governers, the vote was overturned by the court, and the inimitable Gray Davis naturally quit the fight. We were close. It is what the people wanted. Very, very discouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 They're already leaving in droves right now because there's no work. This is a great time to eliminate entitlements. No schooling. No health care. No welfare. Nothing unless you prove citizenship, and even that is a challenge because illegals swap fake social security cards like candy. But the very simple fact remains that if you keep doing what you're doing, you keep getting what you're getting. Our very own president is making a living by repeatedly shouting that the status quo is not acceptable any more. Now, that doesn't mean we do something stupid just so we can show we're not keeping with the status quo, but illegal immigration is a monster cause of problems in this country, and unless we start to change the way immigrants are handled, we'll never get out of this hole. I'm not saying it'll be easy. And it certainly won't be cheap. But to ignore the problem simply because "they may come back again" is a lazyass cop out. What is discouraging is that in 1994, almost 60% of Californians voted to approve Prop 187, which took welfare, education and health care away from illegal aliens. And of course, by the time it made its way to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, California changed governers, the vote was overturned by the court, and the inimitable Gray Davis naturally quit the fight. We were close. It is what the people wanted. Very, very discouraging. I'm not against what you are saying- just saying that its easier said than done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 1] Why is that 46 million number a lie? I'm not saying that it isn't, but why is it a lie to you?2] I sincerely doubt that abortion provision is going to last. I would probably bet you right now it won't last. It's just flat stupid to be included in the bill. 1. It's a lie when they say that "46 million Americans" are uninsured when 9 million of that number are not Americans. And when I say "they," I mean all of them...not on 2. I seriously don't care one way or another. To be honest, the right doesn't need to get people all whigged out about the abortion angle of this because the left is doing a good job of screwing this up completely by themselves. Though no insider am I, I believe the right got what they wanted, which was no bill passed before August. But the time this discussion heats up again in the Fall, more people will learn more details (as they are now, which is driving public support down into the toilet), and when we're still staring at 10-11% unemployment going into the end of the year, the last thing this anxious public is going to want to do is hear politicians piss on each other about health care reform. They're going to want jobs...and lots of them...and fast. If unemployment drops, then it's a different ball game. But I think we both know the number of unemployed is going to get worse before it gets better. Plus, when you factor in what the public is increasingly perceiving as a monstrous flop of the ultra-urgent stimulus plan, well...there's not a lot of credibility in DC these days. They had their window for health care. They missed it. Without better employment numbers, I personally don't expect the window to open again any time soon. Just an opinion. Could be totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 1. It's a lie when they say that "46 million Americans" are uninsured when 9 million of that number are not Americans. And when I say "they," I mean all of them...not on The number is probably pretty close. According to the non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation, 79% of the 47 million figure from two years ago are regular US citizens. 21% of the rest are made up of both legal and illegal immigrants, which is about 10 million. Of those ten million, the census says 44% of non-citizens are uninsured. Add to that the few million people who have lost their jobs in the last two years, plus the amount of businesses who cut insurance in the last couple years because they couldn't afford to pay it, and it's probably very close to the 46-47 million now, and maybe more than that. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/how_...red_are_us.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 The number is probably pretty close. According to the non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation, 79% of the 47 million figure from two years ago are regular US citizens. 21% of the rest are made up of both legal and illegal immigrants, which is about 10 million. Of those ten million, the census says 44% of non-citizens are uninsured. Add to that the few million people who have lost their jobs in the last two years, plus the amount of businesses who cut insurance in the last couple years because they couldn't afford to pay it, and it's probably very close to the 46-47 million now, and maybe more than that. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/how_...red_are_us.html Fine. No one is lying. They just don't know what the hell they're talking about. In the end, I don't care what the number is; I do NOT want to provide free federal health care to illegal immigrants. Period. Unless it turns out to be so unbelievably crappy that all the immigrants go home for better care. I paraphrase a comedian I heard this weekend, when he commented that he doesn't want to see the government trying to fix global warming (or in this case, health care) until "they can figure out how to let me on a plane with my eye drops." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 By the way, contrary to misinformation and persistent lies, illegal immigrants will NOT be covered in the health care bills. It's not in the House bill, and they are not even discussing the possibility in the Senate bill outside of some Democrats, and the President, who want to protect children of illegals if they get sick. But pretty much the only people in the 47 million who are not insured now that won't be insured, are the estimated 6-8 million illegals. (There may be more than 6-8 million illegals in the country, the 6-8 number comes from the estimates of how many of the 47 million people living in America without insurance are here illegally). So illegals aren't supposed to get any part of this just like they're not supposed to get social security, education, welfare, jobs, etc, etc. They've done such a good job eliminating all of that fraud they'll surely do as good a job on policing the health care, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Fine. No one is lying. They just don't know what the hell they're talking about. In the end, I don't care what the number is; I do NOT want to provide free federal health care to illegal immigrants. Period. Unless it turns out to be so unbelievably crappy that all the immigrants go home for better care. I paraphrase a comedian I heard this weekend, when he commented that he doesn't want to see the government trying to fix global warming (or in this case, health care) until "they can figure out how to let me on a plane with my eye drops." How would they provide it in the first place? You will have to apply to the government on your tax forms I think (or some other way) to get the government to help you pay for your coverage. Sure, some portion will be able to commit fraud like Chef suggests, but how many illegals are really going to be able to do this? Btw, the Senate Finance Committee is about to announce some plan they are close to agreeing on that doesn't have a "public" plan it that is run by the government. Instead, it will have a non-profit foundation that will offer insurance plans to compete against the private plans. I think that's a better idea than the public plan. The only reason I would want a public plan is if it offers a cheaper version to low income people and small businesses, and makes the private insurance companies lower their rates to compete. If that can be non-profits instead of the government, that's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 How would they provide it in the first place? You will have to apply to the government on your tax forms I think (or some other way) to get the government to help you pay for your coverage. Sure, some portion will be able to commit fraud like Chef suggests, but how many illegals are really going to be able to do this? Btw, the Senate Finance Committee is about to announce some plan they are close to agreeing on that doesn't have a "public" plan it that is run by the government. Instead, it will have a non-profit foundation that will offer insurance plans to compete against the private plans. I think that's a better idea than the public plan. The only reason I would want a public plan is if it offers a cheaper version to low income people and small businesses, and makes the private insurance companies lower their rates to compete. If that can be non-profits instead of the government, that's great. Whoa, whoa, whoa there. Do you have any !@#$ing idea how many illegals file a tax return??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Whoa, whoa, whoa there. Do you have any !@#$ing idea how many illegals file a tax return??? A million? A few million? In 2005, 2.1 million filed with one of those INIT numbers, which is how they would do it. Not all of those are illegals but most are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 A million? A few million? Does it matter? I don't want to pay for any illegal's health insurance. Hell there are some stupid and ugly people I'd probably like to leave out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 A million? A few million? In 2005, 2.1 million filed with one of those INIT numbers, which is how they would do it. Not all of those are illegals but most are. How many of them filed with false SSN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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