zazie Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Which is rightly so. Only place I can see it (more diversion) actually get through the system. Of course a big factor is that Lake Michigan is the only lake that is 100% United States... Yet, Lake Huron is at the same elevation... And Superior's flow through the Soo (Sault Ste. Marie) can be kept in check... Unless the water in Superior starts getting really high. Again... Michigan would make a holy stink about any further diversion say by a state like WI... Just as they have been fighting with Illinois for better half of the last 100 years. Will we witness a tragedy of commons when it comes to certain stuff like this?? The real situation is sadly like the oil in Alaska or the water in CDolorado. Eventually, when needed, there will be a breakdown in sensible controls and the great lakes water will be exploited, by federal decree if that what it takes, by large dry cities in this nation. Look at what China is doing to the poor Mekong river. We don't even need that oil really but they are making a big mess. Same coming soon as the mississipi declines and all the cities need that water; it will come from the great lakes, then the finger lakes, etc. Mans inhospitality to earth will not allow those lakes to stand for more than 50-100 more years, no matter what laws are in place now. Sorry. Really.
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 What an idiotic article. Have these ignaramuses ever been to Gary, IN? ... the state of Indiana... Worst Verginia (spelled with the backwoods accent)? Come on. I spent yesterday morning in Rochester and the afternoon in Buffalo. Unemployment and NY Welfare pay very well these days (at my exp). Both towns we're bustling, busy and well-watered from 20+ consecutive days of rain. Gary and the Port of Indiana still have ships coming into harbor... You'd be surprised what comesin and out of there... Now BFLO is TOTALLY dead. Amoco has a big refinery in Whiting, Indiana... Indiana harbor is bustling compared to BFLO... Maybe not what once was... But, ships call port from all over the world... It is still a big break in bulk port. Just a rough estimate I would say over a million ton of chemical, crude, and other similar types of products makes its way through the Illinois WaterWay headed to or from Indiana. Indiana is BOOMING COMPARED TO BFLO. Of course you don't see it, because modern methods have been so streamlined.
Heart Throb Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 30 years ago is calling and wants it story back. True that
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 The real situation is sadly like the oil in Alaska or the water in CDolorado. Eventually, when needed, there will be a breakdown in sensible controls and the great lakes water will be exploited, by federal decree if that what it takes, by large dry cities in this nation. Look at what China is doing to the poor Mekong river. We don't even need that oil really but they are making a big mess. Same coming soon as the mississipi declines and all the cities need that water; it will come from the great lakes, then the finger lakes, etc. Mans inhospitality to earth will not allow those lakes to stand for more than 50-100 more years, no matter what laws are in place now. Sorry. Really. BS. Lake Michigan is actually on a rebound. The real harm is Lake Ontario, where they are not letting it run its course like the other lakes... Just think of the invasive species of plants that took over for a while, now in other lakes outside of Ontario they are being choked out by the rising water. Chicago is the worst culprit in exploiting it... They charge an arm and a leg the more communites you get further down the line. I live just outside of lake water and love it... My town gets the water from wells in town (supposedly from a depth that can sustain the community for 100's of years... My bill is only about 70 bucks a quater with sewer... The only bad thing is that the water is hard... So I use a softener... Now in Chicago... If you have an old residence, one doesn't even have a water meter... They judge by estimate. Supposedly if you rehab the residence then you must get a meter.
trolls_r_us Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 I feel like I've read this discussion somewhere before. Buffalo was a steel, railroad, shipping, automobile and manufacturing town. With those 5 strikes against us we shouldn't even exist anymore. Yet 1.2 million people live in this metro area. I had a long response typed up but experience has taught me that it is pointless to try and highlight the positive things that are going on in Buffalo in a thread like this. I can just go by my experience. In the past few weeks I have hiked the Niagara gorge trail (beautiful), visited the gardens in Delaware Park, did a free tour of the Art Gallery on Friday, went over to a friend's house for a nice Rock Band party (we are all in our 20's AND we're not college students so we don't even exist here!), took my fiance to see Letchworth, went camping in the Southern Tier for a week, walked through the botanical gardens, went to a couple of free concerts, rode my bike along the miles of nice bike trails almost daily, hiked in Sprague Brook and Chestnut Ridge, and I plan on visiting Bills training camp and spending the fall attending Bills and Sabres games, hiking, fishing, biking, hanging out with friends, and all sorts of other fun things that come up. I haven't even mentioned the festivals this summer. It boggles my mind that anyone could be bored living here. I guess if your only idea of a good time is partying in a 23 story luxury condo with a group of shallow millionaires flashing all their wealth then you might have a tough time.
Griswold Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Nothing to see here w/this article. Please move along. The article is quoting population specs from inside city limits... not greater metro areas. Bflo is 270K Erie County is more like 920K (incl the Bflo 270K).
bufferman Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 I sometimes do a double take when I read these posts. Buffalo is in the middle of the fifth largest population base in North America The Buffalo Bills are part of Buffalo, a natural resource if you will. For the purpose of football, Buffalo is a primary marketplace and Toronto is the secondary marketplace. Toronto wants to acquire the Bills "lock stock and barrel". They will make every effort to bring the team north and will manipulate all of the census data to their advantage. The truth is that it is primarily immigrants who have absolutely no interest in North American football. Those who want to bring the team ito Toronto look at Buffalo and Buffalonians like there a joke. Years ago when the Blue Jays sold out every game the parking lots were filled with NY State plates. The Blue Jays now have one of the lowest attendance figures in the league. Toronto is all for and about Toronto. They do not care about any support that may have come from NYS. Part of the problem is that Buffalo and its' media market continuously puts itself in a box which sees itself as a dying urban jurisdiction. They use this to their advantage and will seize upon this mentality when "push comes to shove". So quit your whining and your self perpetuated inferiority complex. You are and always will be a football town like very few on the planet. Stand up and be heard. Do whatever needs to be done but stop putting yourself down.
ganesh Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse: The Buffalo Bills main US fan base. I wonder how Toronto, CN is doing!?! America's Fastest Dying Cities 1. Flint, MI 2. Cleveland, OH 3. BUFFALO, NY 4. Pittsburgh, PA 5. Dyaton, OH 6. Hialeah, FL 7. Toledo, OH 8. ROCHESTER, NY 9. SYRACUSE, NY 10. Jackson, MS http://realestate.aol.com/pictures/finance/dying-cities?pg=1 Pittsburgh is not a dying city....I live here and know for sure that house prices in and around here have actually gone up. Medical insurance companies and giants such as Heinz, UPMC, etc will keep its growth. It may not be the best place for "High Tech" IT opportunities, but people do other stuff too.
Gordio Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 I believe the Lake Erie water is actually fairly clean, isn't it? Back in the heyday of Bethlehem Steel, Republic Steel, Hooker Chemicals, General Mills, or whomever - crap was dumped in the great lakes in ungodly amounts, with profit, rather than pollution foremost on the minds of the offending companies. On the wave of the environmental movement of the late 60s and 70s, didn't a slew of new EPA regulation lead to drasictally cleaner great lakes? Anyone know? How clean are the lakes now? I know there's been some algae problems attributed to mussels, or something like that. When I recently flew above the Lake Erie shoreline, upon descent into Buffalo, I was awestruck by the magnitude and beauty of the lake as the sun reflected off of the water and power boats and sailboats floated below me. Funny how many facets of the area we take for granted growing up there, and never realized, until being transplanted elsewhere, how truly beautiful the landscape is in WNY. Speaking of lakes and fresh water.... My water bill last month was $118 (including sewer). In Buffalo, I believe you still only get a bill like every 3 months. Since the fee is so low, it wouldn't be unusual to pay around $50 for the quarter for water. We have lower taxes here, but when you start adding it all up, I'm not sure we're really any better off, particularly when you consider all the amenities (bike paths, numerous parks, Mighty Taco, etc) available to many WNYers. The lake is actually almost too clean now & that does create the Algae problem. Your right about the water expenses. I pay about $45 every 3 months for water.
bufferman Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Pittsburgh is not a dying city....I live here and know for sure that house prices in and around here have actually gone up. Medical insurance companies and giants such as Heinz, UPMC, etc will keep its growth. It may not be the best place for "High Tech" IT opportunities, but people do other stuff too. The study is purely emperical and based upon people leaving the city of Pittsburgh. It is a statistical urban study of population. I will say it again, there are very few cities in the world that have the logistical population at its disposal for trade, commerce and tourism that Buffalo has. The problem is, that it can't count the millions of people across the border and therefore this cosistently paints a negative picture instead of a true picture.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Took my son to Detroit Auto Show this winter. That is the strangest town I have ever been to. Saturday Morning. Noon. Downtown. No one around. Street level shops vacant. Whole buildings--right downtown, 20 stories---abandoned. Stayed at the GM tower hotel. Beautiful view of the city. No cars on the street on Saturday night. There was this massive old hotel seen from the highway to and from the airprot on the edge of town---just an empty hulking structure. No windows intact. It was very strange. I live on the Lake Ontario. Smells fine and a beautiful sunset (on the water) shines into every room in my house every nite. Awesome. Sounds like Buffalo. I once drove through town, north to south on a beautiful early September Saturday afternoon, like 1 or so. made it all the way through town in 15 minutes. Unbelievable. Can't even do that here in the Lehigh Valley.
ricojes Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 America's Ten Fastest Dying Cities! Buffalo... I would consider it more of a slow painful death...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 The lake is actually almost too clean now & that does create the Algae problem. Your right about the water expenses. I pay about $45 every 3 months for water. Primarily due to the fact that Lake Erie's residence time is a whopping 5 or so years! Quite a great natural attribute to have when you consider the other lakes like Superior and Michigan you are talking 100-200 years! Amazing that Ontario's is 6 years even after the Seaway was built... Without looking at any data, I think the SeaWay may have helped with flushing! Yet the SeaWay has been shown to keep Lake Ontario's elevations pretty static... Which in regard to the Great Lakes' ecosystem (invasive species) can hurt. Of course this is all in my non-professional opinion.
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