PearlHowardman Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse: The Buffalo Bills main US fan base. I wonder how Toronto, CN is doing!?! America's Fastest Dying Cities 1. Flint, MI 2. Cleveland, OH 3. BUFFALO, NY 4. Pittsburgh, PA 5. Dyaton, OH 6. Hialeah, FL 7. Toledo, OH 8. ROCHESTER, NY 9. SYRACUSE, NY 10. Jackson, MS http://realestate.aol.com/pictures/finance/dying-cities?pg=1
PearlHowardman Posted July 25, 2009 Author Posted July 25, 2009 Cleveland and Pittsburgh have populations high enough that their respective NFL teams can handle the loss. The combined populations of Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse don't give the Bills any kind of luxury.
kegtapr Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 these 11 U.S. cities lost between 5 and 10 percent of their population over the past eight years. Ok, and? Just because the cities lost between 5 and 10 percent doesn't mean the region did. Did this study take into account people moving to the burbs? Nope. They are only talking about the city limits, not the region. Rochester isn't dying. It isn't flourishing, but doesn't belong on a list like that. It only gives you one part of the equation and makes for a scary headline. Population has been stagnant for years, neither growing or declining in great numbers, at least for the Rochester region. Buffalo on the other hand.... http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=uspopu...117:36073:36037
Fingon Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Ok, and? Just because the cities lost between 5 and 10 percent doesn't mean the region did. Did this study take into account people moving to the burbs? Nope. They are only talking about the city limits, not the region. Rochester isn't dying. It isn't flourishing, but doesn't belong on a list like that. It only gives you one part of the equation and makes for a scary headline. Population has been stagnant for years, neither growing or declining in great numbers, at least for the Rochester region. Buffalo on the other hand.... http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=uspopu...117:36073:36037 Erie county lost 10% of its population... but it took 27 years. Niagara county has been stagnant.
SouthernMan Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse: The Buffalo Bills main US fan base. I wonder how Toronto, CN is doing!?! America's Fastest Dying Cities 1. Flint, MI 2. Cleveland, OH 3. BUFFALO, NY 4. Pittsburgh, PA 5. Dyaton, OH 6. Hialeah, FL 7. Toledo, OH 8. ROCHESTER, NY 9. SYRACUSE, NY 10. Jackson, MS http://realestate.aol.com/pictures/finance/dying-cities?pg=1 And yet, the Bills and Sabres continue to sell out in the midst of the worst economy in recent memory! Area malls are full. Niagara Falls Boulevard and Transit Rd are both packed. Golf courses are fully booked during decent weather. I wonder if the survey limited the data to actual city limits. If so, not that surprising. Apart from municipal, utility companies, and a few others, most of the businesses that used to occupy Buffalo's highrise buildings are now situated in the office parks and light industrial buildings of Amherst, Orchard Park, and Hamburg - as are the residents. Most of the businesses around Williamsville are within 10 minutes of the airport. Can't beat that if you have a position that requires frequent travel. There's all kinds of activity and seemingly happy/content people throughout the area, unlike my adopted hometown,. Atlanta, where all these "successful" people appear miserable most of the time as they retreat to the safety of their homes for the weekend after spending too many hours in traffic, only coming out again at 6am Monday morning to "beat the rush". I just returned from the Buffalo area last week, and I noticed something that was a huge contrast to the suburban Atlanta area where I live - very few "for sale" signs on the front lawns of homes in the Amherst and Tonawandas, where I spent a good part of my time. I asked about this phenomenon and was told that homes don't stay on the market for long, assuming they're priced right. There's a greater balance ratio of seller to buyers, unlike my current area. In my subdivision alone, there are probably 20 homes for sale, and the competition and lack of buyers has driven prices into the ground. My house has probably dropped $40k in price since 2005. Swell...I was hoping to use my escalating equity and increasing principal to pay cash for a suburban Buffalo home in a few years. In this area (Atlanta 'burbs), everyone (including me) viewed their home as some sort of guaranteed return fund, expecting great annual appreciation, with the idea of maybe selling after a couple of years for huge profit. That actually worked well for those buying the late 90s and selling before the bubble burst around 2007. In contrast. the humble people of Buffalo have historically bought their homes to (imagine this) live in and raise a family, and eventually pay it off, and stay until they're no longer physically able. It's amazing to me how many neighbors and friends from 30+ years ago still live in the same house. Some still have their original rotory dial wallphones! Nobody around here would believe it. They look like something out of "Buffalo '66". I used to think of in Buffalo as corny or quaint, as compared to the fast-paced, "happening" world of Atlanta. I now long for that simplicity. I'll now take the weekly Buffalo area summer lawn fêtes over the 6 bedroom house in Atlanta. The suburban Buffalo area never experienced the boom that the southern cities enjoyed throughout the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. But they're also not being crushed by the drastic downturn in housing prices and high foreclosure rates. Buffalo home prices are actually rising! Buffalo is a conservative community of people who still retain their old world values and financial thriftiness. If not for the insane property and school taxes that keep small businesses from considering Buffalo as a good locale, it could be a very prosperous town, in my estimation. Overall, Buffalo and it's surrounding area, has a fairly healthy economy as compared to much of the nation. Bring in some jobs and I'm there. Meanwhile, Buffalo homes prices go up as my home value slips away. This plan to get back to WNY someday is working out just great. 23 year in Atlanta. God, I really hate this overpopulated, sickeningly polluted air, and unneighborly town. The city of Buffalo may have lost headcount, but I think the overall area is still chugging along as well as can be expected with the retraints of their taxation.
kegtapr Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Erie county lost 10% of its population... but it took 27 years. Niagara county has been stagnant. True, but the region did see a pretty significant decline over the past 10 years. If these people moved to other counties, please correct me. None of these studies mean anything for the northeast at the end of the day. Give the region about 20 years and people will be looking to make the great lakes their new home. The water out west isn't going to last forever and people are going to start realizing they need to move where the water is, not move the water to them. The key will be the day when businesses figure this out (and if a meteor could fall on Albany to speed this up, that would be a bonus.)
Buffalo Soldier N.O. Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 DML2005 , I noticed alot of the same things that you did on a recent trip to Buffalo. I'm actually very impressed with what is happening in Buffalo. Your comparisons to Atlanta are apt. Getting more Googles, adding to the medical corridor in downtown, New Era moving its headquarters downtown, etc., are positives that can't be ignored. Good things are happening!
Red Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 True, but the region did see a pretty significant decline over the past 10 years. If these people moved to other counties, please correct me. None of these studies mean anything for the northeast at the end of the day. Give the region about 20 years and people will be looking to make the great lakes their new home. The water out west isn't going to last forever and people are going to start realizing they need to move where the water is, not move the water to them. The key will be the day when businesses figure this out (and if a meteor could fall on Albany to speed this up, that would be a bonus.) only if the most socialist welfare state in the Union seriously cuts back on its programs and taxes, and actual economic G-R-O-W-T-H (i.e.- jobs) occurs will that ever happen. Have you read about the Brain Drain? Seriously, this is a problem for not only WNY but NY as a whole. That is your most critical population that continuously leaves and as long as that continues the State will eventually be choked as the baby boomers start collecting those pensions and there are little to no more young families taking their place. NY is seriously headed for either total collapse or will need a major reworking within the next decade. They can't continue to hemorrage an educated population and not have it effect the state.
Red Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 DML2005 ,I noticed alot of the same things that you did on a recent trip to Buffalo. I'm actually very impressed with what is happening in Buffalo. Your comparisons to Atlanta are apt. Getting more Googles, adding to the medical corridor in downtown, New Era moving its headquarters downtown, etc., are positives that can't be ignored. Good things are happening! I only hope that it adds careers, and not jobs. My wife and I moved back to Buffalo in October 2006, but left again in May of '08. Truly, there are signs of change (finally), and a small handful of programs and local politicians who finally get it. Back in the 50's and 60's, WNY was the place to be. UB, Roswell Park, Bell Aerospace, Dunlop, Goodyear, Ford, Bethlehem Steel, etc were all booming. Manufacturing, Medical, Education, you name it and the area was prospering. There was room for labor unions at the time. Now, I think the unions are part of the problem. Obviously taxing an ever-dwindling and aging population is another factor. The area needs to consolidate its resources. Gut the small boards and municipalities and their useless representatives. Make Erie County 1 entity, and no more towns, villages, and the like. 1 police force. 1 fire department. 1 supervisor, and 1 board of representatives ACTUALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE POPULATION. When monies come in via Waterfront development, Power Authority, etc...petty squabbles about how to waste the money (thank you, Niagara County- NCCC does not need an ice rink) need to end. The money is for waterfront development along the RIVER, and should be concentrated on that purpose. The region needs to pull together for a common goal. Living in Northern VA, we sometimes travel up to Baltimore's Inner Harbor and love it. It'd be great if Buffalo could pull something like that off in my lifetime. Why are the Bills in Orchard Park? Why is UB in Amherst? Why are Casinos being built in Buffalo? The Bills should be downtown. UB should be on the waterfront. I completely don't see any benefit to Casinos in the City of Buffalo. Niagara Falls, on the other hand, should be allowed to become the 'Las Vegas of the East' under the stipulation that the monies gained will be (in part) returned to the area and County for improvement. Of course, that money would have to used for the same and monitored to prevent wastage. People from ALL OVER THE WORLD go to Niagara Falls. Every year, millions make the pilgrimage. Yet, Canada captures so much of the spending cash because they have so much more to offer, its prettier, and cleaner. Why is this allowed? America is a free enterprise. Why is growth so stifled when there is a wonder of the world at is doorstep? Why should Canada get the cash? Having high speed rail along the waterfront connecting the Falls to Buffalo (with stops along the way) would provide packages for visitors to Bills, Sabres, and gambling in the Falls. The theatre district could add to this. Restaurants would thrive with the increased shoppers looking for something to do. Could you imagine a WNY like this? Stop the sprawl, and rededicate to the City. Be unified, and maximize the area for what it has. But who am I?
zow2 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Don't worry, scientists predict that in the next 50 yrs there will be a HUGE fresh water crisis in the USA, especially in the South, Soutwest and West. Places that have huge fresh water lakes sitting next to them like Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Rochester, etc.. are poised to make giant comebacks when the populations and large businesses move towards that direction.
Red Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Don't worry, scientists predict that in the next 50 yrs there will be a HUGE fresh water crisis in the USA, especially in the South, Soutwest and West. Places that have huge fresh water lakes sitting next to them like Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Rochester, etc.. are poised to make giant comebacks when the populations and large businesses move towards that direction. After years of pollution, I wouldn't call those Lakes "fresh".
Captain Quint Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 How is Detroit not on their? Detroit actually died about 6 or 7 yrs ago. Thats why it isn't on the list.
buffaloaggie Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I only hope that it adds careers, and not jobs. My wife and I moved back to Buffalo in October 2006, but left again in May of '08. Truly, there are signs of change (finally), and a small handful of programs and local politicians who finally get it. Back in the 50's and 60's, WNY was the place to be. UB, Roswell Park, Bell Aerospace, Dunlop, Goodyear, Ford, Bethlehem Steel, etc were all booming. Manufacturing, Medical, Education, you name it and the area was prospering. There was room for labor unions at the time. Now, I think the unions are part of the problem. Obviously taxing an ever-dwindling and aging population is another factor. The area needs to consolidate its resources. Gut the small boards and municipalities and their useless representatives. Make Erie County 1 entity, and no more towns, villages, and the like. 1 police force. 1 fire department. 1 supervisor, and 1 board of representatives ACTUALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE POPULATION. When monies come in via Waterfront development, Power Authority, etc...petty squabbles about how to waste the money (thank you, Niagara County- NCCC does not need an ice rink) need to end. The money is for waterfront development along the RIVER, and should be concentrated on that purpose. The region needs to pull together for a common goal. Living in Northern VA, we sometimes travel up to Baltimore's Inner Harbor and love it. It'd be great if Buffalo could pull something like that off in my lifetime. Why are the Bills in Orchard Park? Why is UB in Amherst? Why are Casinos being built in Buffalo? The Bills should be downtown. UB should be on the waterfront. I completely don't see any benefit to Casinos in the City of Buffalo. Niagara Falls, on the other hand, should be allowed to become the 'Las Vegas of the East' under the stipulation that the monies gained will be (in part) returned to the area and County for improvement. Of course, that money would have to used for the same and monitored to prevent wastage. People from ALL OVER THE WORLD go to Niagara Falls. Every year, millions make the pilgrimage. Yet, Canada captures so much of the spending cash because they have so much more to offer, its prettier, and cleaner. Why is this allowed? America is a free enterprise. Why is growth so stifled when there is a wonder of the world at is doorstep? Why should Canada get the cash? Having high speed rail along the waterfront connecting the Falls to Buffalo (with stops along the way) would provide packages for visitors to Bills, Sabres, and gambling in the Falls. The theatre district could add to this. Restaurants would thrive with the increased shoppers looking for something to do. Could you imagine a WNY like this? Stop the sprawl, and rededicate to the City. Be unified, and maximize the area for what it has. But who am I? Casinos would bring in tourists. It would keep money IN Buffalo. It would boost local business, it would generate revenue, period. Pittsburgh has built a casino, because they see the benefit. Have it all right in downtown. Why incur the cost of all of that infrastructure?
buffaloaggie Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Detroit actually died about 6 or 7 yrs ago. Thats why it isn't on the list. Funny, yet true. It should just be the whole state of Michigan on the list.
Tcali Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Cleveland and Pittsburgh have populations high enough that their respective NFL teams can handle the loss. The combined populations of Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse don't give the Bills any kind of luxury. ?? flunked sociall studies?
Tcali Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Detroit actually died about 6 or 7 yrs ago. Thats why it isn't on the list. detroit is a corpse
ConradDobler Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Don't worry, scientists predict that in the next 50 yrs there will be a HUGE fresh water crisis in the USA, especially in the South, Soutwest and West. Places that have huge fresh water lakes sitting next to them like Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Rochester, etc.. are poised to make giant comebacks when the populations and large businesses move towards that direction. The way things work around here, NYS will figure out a way to make us pay to send our water elsewhere. (See NY Power Authority, and our 50% higher than national average electric rates.)
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