Sisyphean Bills Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I whole-heartedly disagree with the team not looking prepared. Play calling, yes, that is sub-par and often times just plain wrong. But the players themselves have said that they are fully prepared each and every game (I know, what else would they say). Aside from the Willis comment regarding not knowing what down it was, I have not seen a game where the players looked "unprepared" OR lacking confidence. I would think the appearance of these would be a direct result of bad play calling by the coaches, but that's just me... The players have also said that they never practiced against the 3-4 fronts they saw in the game; and, Trent Edwards said that he had never seen various coverages that opponents gave the Bills. But, I'm sure they knew the opponent's third down conversion percentage to the 8th decimal place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 The players have also said that they never practiced against the 3-4 fronts they saw in the game; and, Trent Edwards said that he had never seen various coverages that opponents gave the Bills. But, I'm sure they knew the opponent's third down conversion percentage to the 8th decimal place. That's actually pretty weak.... Where's your link? You and I both know that was NOT the extent of the quote, so let's just let this one slip by. I'm not saying the coaching staff has been PERFECT week in and week out in regards to preparation, I was responding to a post that consisted of a blanket remark that we never look confident or prepared. That's just not true. I get it, half of us will admit that Dick does some good things along with some really bonehead, conservative things, and those of us looking for that 1 single scapegoat will scream for his beheading, no need to continually post outlandish, far-fetched reaches to prove your points. .... unless you're simply working on your post count, in which case, fire away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 That's actually pretty weak.... Where's your link? You and I both know that was NOT the extent of the quote, so let's just let this one slip by. Let's not, as it goes to the same issue you and I have been discussing. Standard practice here (among many) is to stretch an out of context quote to mean something other than was intended to support your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I prefer quotes like... "I don't even remember what I said. I hope whatever I said was cute and clever, and maybe even a tiny bit humorous. I hope it wasn't mindless babble, and if it was, hopefully everyone will forget about it pretty quick." or... "I've specifically concentrated on not concentrating on this, and up to this point, I've done a really good job." Of course, you can only get that kind of entertainment from the best offensive mind in football... Mike Leach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Of course, you can only get that kind of entertainment from the best offensive mind in COLLEGE football... Mike Leach Fixed! I like Leach better now than I did when he was called "Steve Spurrier". Speaking of the previous "best offensive mind in [college] football", what do you think about the Tebow slight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 "we just need to keep the game close, and hopefully will have a chance to win it with a field goal at the end." That sounds a lot like "The best you can do on any given day is to put yourself in a position to win. After that, if the circumstances are right, you’ll win." ~~~Richard Petty Of course, when Petty said that, he was dominating his profession like no other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I'm not saying the coaching staff has been PERFECT week in and week out in regards to preparation, I was responding to a post that consisted of a blanket remark that we never look confident or prepared. That's just not true. I get it, half of us will admit that Dick does some good things along with some really bonehead, conservative things, and those of us looking for that 1 single scapegoat will scream for his beheading, no need to continually post outlandish, far-fetched reaches to prove your points. Actually, I don't care if you don't want to believe players said these things. Note that I actually agree with your point about never being prepared. Note further that I didn't present what the players said as direct quotes. They were given as excuses at times last season, and other posters may recall hearing the gist of those statements. You said that the Bills players were "fully prepared each and every week", yet in interviews they explained various problems as due to a lack of knowing what the opponent was doing. Even Dick Jauron expressed some surprise after one game with a comment that what they practiced on Friday went really well. It's no great stretch to understand that he implied surprise that things backfired in the game and to understand that getting surprised is not consistent with someone that is "fully prepared". I think we are actually mostly in agreement. Dick Jauron does prepare his teams to play the game, but it is not a black and white issue. They are neither "fully prepared each and every week" nor are they "never prepared". There is evidence to support both in fact: the Bills commit few penalties under Jauron, which can being related to being well-prepared and knowing your assignments. On the other hand, one might counter that the Bills "waste" timeouts at the strangest points in games. That can be attributed to not being prepared, not getting the plays and formations in in a timely and clear manner. Again, you may choose to disbelieve it and I'm not going to try to find a link since I often listen to these sorts of interviews on the radio (sorry, real world information does extend beyond links, though that can make holding a civil conversation here difficult at times), but I do recall Trent Edwards responding to a question about the questionable use of timeouts on the radio that they weren't getting the plays in from the sideline, it was a communications issue, and so forth. I heard him say it and I've seen the on-field results and adjustments with my own eyes, so I'm sorry but I can't agree that the team is "fully prepared each and every week." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I think we are actually mostly in agreement. Dick Jauron does prepare his teams to play the game, but it is not a black and white issue. They are neither "fully prepared each and every week" nor are they "never prepared". There is evidence to support both in fact: the Bills commit few penalties under Jauron, which can being related to being well-prepared and knowing your assignments. On the other hand, one might counter that the Bills "waste" timeouts at the strangest points in games. That can be attributed to not being prepared, not getting the plays and formations in in a timely and clear manner. Again, you may choose to disbelieve it and I'm not going to try to find a link since I often listen to these sorts of interviews on the radio (sorry, real world information does extend beyond links, though that can make holding a civil conversation here difficult at times), but I do recall Trent Edwards responding to a question about the questionable use of timeouts on the radio that they weren't getting the plays in from the sideline, it was a communications issue, and so forth. I heard him say it and I've seen the on-field results and adjustments with my own eyes, so I'm sorry but I can't agree that the team is "fully prepared each and every week." The wasted TOs are certainly part of it. And how about the abortion at the end of the first half in the last game of 2008? Ball inside the 15 w/ 25 seconds left and they somehow manage to only run one play and no FG attempt? That's a team (and a coach) that simply does not know what to do in a pressure situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 The wasted TOs are certainly part of it. And how about the abortion at the end of the first half in the last game of 2008? Ball inside the 15 w/ 25 seconds left and they somehow manage to only run one play and no FG attempt? That's a team (and a coach) that simply does not know what to do in a pressure situation. Yep. It's a good argument against being fully prepared. My light-hearted comment about 3rd down percentage and 8 decimal points earlier was intended directly at that dichotomy, in fact. Being able to rattle off pages of statistical data ("book learning") may be an impressive display of memory. But, it does not necessarily follow that someone with that data can always make the best inferences and deductions and do so quickly under pressure. A more concrete example of that is the Jets game and the infamous "rollout" call. Regardless of whether one wants to believe it was Jauron's call (which is what Jauron himself insisted) or whether one wants to assert it was Schonert's call and Dick Jauron was in fact lying to protect Schonert from criticism (which is the epitome of irony, no?), the play call itself and the reasons given for it all point to my point about "data without sufficient deduction". Running a roll-out pass play is, no doubt, statistically not a bad option as the defense is most likely expecting a run in short yardage; it most likely was not going into an all-out blitz sending absolutely everyone as the defense doesn't want to give up a big play; with the 2 minute warning time stoppage, a run or a pass would've taken the same amount of time off the clock; statistically it was quite improbable that the QB would fumble; and, there was almost no chance at all the defense would recover and be able to score a touchdown and win the game. All of that data was there, but the processing failed spectacularly. Many people, some even at the game, had a "bad gut feeling" as soon as Losman stepped away from center and started to roll out. All the above statistical data failed to note that Losman was, again, shaky and pressing to try and show that he was a good QB, deserved to be the starter, and worthy of a 1st round selection. But that is something a coach doesn't get out of book, it is something he has to see as the game is happening in front of him and have the ability to deal with in real time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Yep. It's a good argument against being fully prepared. No, that shows his terrible gameday management skills, and his inability to think fast and effectively under pressure, IMO. the Bills may not be "perfectly" prepared every week. I'm guessing no team is. But DJ does a reasonably good job Mon-Sat, IMO. It's the Sunday decisions that have doomed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 No, that shows his terrible gameday management skills, and his inability to think fast and effectively under pressure, IMO. the Bills may not be "perfectly" prepared every week. I'm guessing no team is. But DJ does a reasonably good job Mon-Sat, IMO. It's the Sunday decisions that have doomed him. Preparation, in my opinion, is more than just book learning, good meetings, and having efficient practices. It's not purely tactical and I don't really think the Bills display they are well-prepared even at that level at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Quite honestly, I don't give a rat's ass what Jauron says. Criticizing his "coach speak" is nonsense, IMO. I just can't stand his passive approach on Game Day. The rest is bulls#it, IMO. I view his coach-speak as the perfect metaphor for his "coach not to lose philosophy" It's easier than saying "member that time when we were up by 4 pts vs the Panthers in the 2nd quarter and Coach Jauron treated the 4 pt lead like it was a 24 pt lead and he shut everything down and the Panthers came back to win it by 2 pts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stussy109 Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 That sums up his mentality perfectly! Yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Quite honestly, I don't give a rat's ass what Jauron says. Criticizing his "coach speak" is nonsense, IMO. I just can't stand his passive approach on Game Day. The rest is bulls#it, IMO. i think the two are intertwined though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 i think the two are intertwined though I think it has been made all too clear that some successful coaches share Dicky's conversational style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 "Obviously an interesting thread, post-wise. I thought Dean looked good, he moved through the thread well. I don't know what happened on the second page, there was some confusion. Some of the posters went off-topic, and you can't really prepare for that. We'll refresh the browser and go from there. So. We're on page three, there's a lot of opinions left." (mumble mumble) "Do I...?....well, obviously I think you're always posting for your job. Its hard to post on the Stadium Wall." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 "Obviously an interesting thread, post-wise. I thought Dean looked good, he moved through the thread well. I don't know what happened on the second page, there was some confusion. Some of the posters went off-topic, and you can't really prepare for that. We'll refresh the browser and go from there. So. We're on page three, there's a lot of opinions left." (mumble mumble) "Do I...?....well, obviously I think you're always posting for your job. Its hard to post on the Stadium Wall." :wallbash: :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I think it has been made all too clear that some successful coaches share Dicky's conversational style. style yes...content...not so sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Fixed! I like Leach better now than I did when he was called "Steve Spurrier". Speaking of the previous "best offensive mind in [college] football", what do you think about the Tebow slight? I think Spurrier's a freakin' a-hole. The difference between Spurrier and Leach is that Spurrier's an arrogant jerk who openly expressed contempt for the long hours and dedication of most NFL coaches, stupidly thinking he could slack off - maybe sqeezing in as many leisurely rounds of golfs as he liked - and still be as successful as the guys who put in 20-hour days and sleep on cots at the stadium. Leach, while justifiably confident, is just not that stupid. (You do realize that Leach graduated early from BYU, has a Masters in Coaching Science, and a law degree from Pepperdine, yes?) (link) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Actually, I don't care if you don't want to believe players said these things. Note that I actually agree with your point about never being prepared. Note further that I didn't present what the players said as direct quotes. They were given as excuses at times last season, and other posters may recall hearing the gist of those statements. You said that the Bills players were "fully prepared each and every week", yet in interviews they explained various problems as due to a lack of knowing what the opponent was doing. Even Dick Jauron expressed some surprise after one game with a comment that what they practiced on Friday went really well. It's no great stretch to understand that he implied surprise that things backfired in the game and to understand that getting surprised is not consistent with someone that is "fully prepared". I think we are actually mostly in agreement. Dick Jauron does prepare his teams to play the game, but it is not a black and white issue. They are neither "fully prepared each and every week" nor are they "never prepared". There is evidence to support both in fact: the Bills commit few penalties under Jauron, which can being related to being well-prepared and knowing your assignments. On the other hand, one might counter that the Bills "waste" timeouts at the strangest points in games. That can be attributed to not being prepared, not getting the plays and formations in in a timely and clear manner. Again, you may choose to disbelieve it and I'm not going to try to find a link since I often listen to these sorts of interviews on the radio (sorry, real world information does extend beyond links, though that can make holding a civil conversation here difficult at times), but I do recall Trent Edwards responding to a question about the questionable use of timeouts on the radio that they weren't getting the plays in from the sideline, it was a communications issue, and so forth. I heard him say it and I've seen the on-field results and adjustments with my own eyes, so I'm sorry but I can't agree that the team is "fully prepared each and every week." The game where Trent made references to communication and not getting calls in was against the Pats (2nd game I believe). I agree, and think I said so, that gameday is choke city for our coaching staff. No arguments here, and anybody who watches the games would be foolish to disagree. My stance is that this team is as prepared as any Monday through Saturday and that Dick's demeanor in pressers has nothing to do with our on-field product. Do they prepare for an entire Defense to change their scheme? Doubtful. Do they prepare for an offense to throw in a Wildcat? Not if they haven't seen it before. Not sure if you've ever played Football, and I'm not being a smart-ass here, but experience has always been this; when preparing for an opponent, you look at game tapes from previous games the SAME year, what their tendencies are. You prepare as best as possible for what you ASSUME will be shown come gameday. So ya, in that sense, you're right, the Bills are NEVER fully prepared for what MIGHT and sometimes DOES happen. Also, I wasn't denying what some guys said last year, but if you do the research, you'll see plain as day that most of what was said regarding not being prepared was due to what I said above as opposed to our Coache's neglegeance. Other than that, though, we're probably on the same page and just nit-picking to get our points across, which at this time of year, is certainly common and acceptable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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